The end of Rooney

Rooney needs to drop into midfield and be a deep lying playmaker if he wants to prolong his career at the top.

He 100% has the tools to do it but he has to want to. He's easily the best long passer in our squad... maybe only Blind comes close. The ball he pinged out wide to Valencia which led to our goal against Villa... there are not too many players who can play that type of ball as consistently well as Rooney. If you want to get the best out of him, that's where you play him. If you let him play to these strengths, I believe he would flourish.
 
ZupZup said:
Rooney needs to drop into midfield and be a deep lying playmaker if he wants to prolong his career at the top.

He 100% has the tools to do it but he has to want to. He's easily the best long passer in our squad... maybe only Blind comes close. The ball he pinged out wide to Valencia which led to our goal against Villa... there are not too many players who can play that type of ball as consistently well as Rooney. If you want to get the best out of him, that's where you play him. If you let him play to these strengths, I believe he would flourish.
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what about the ones that sail out of play or hit the defender?
 
clarkydaz said:
what about the ones that sail out of play or hit the defender?
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Do you think Messi can hit 50 yard passes and have them land on the player's foot every single time? Do you think Scholes could do that?

Rooney is far from perfect but his long passing is excellent.
 
ZupZup said:
Do you think Messi can hit 50 yard passes and have them land on the player's foot every single time? Do you think Scholes could do that?

Rooney is far from perfect but his long passing is excellent.
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Please don't compare Rooneys passing skills with Messi or Scholes, its embarrassing. That pass to the right wing is his default setting and has been the day since Scholes left the building, its predictable and limited for a supposed playmaker. About 1 in 4 come off. In the middle of the pitch he doesnt have the touch or agility to play short give and goes, hence the golf shot every game to the right, and its ALWAYS the right hand side
 
clarkydaz said:
Please don't compare Rooneys passing skills with Messi or Scholes, its embarrassing. That pass to the right wing is his default setting and has been the day since Scholes left the building, its predictable and limited for a supposed playmaker. About 1 in 4 come off. In the middle of the pitch he doesnt have the touch or agility to play short give and goes, hence the golf shot every game to the right, and its ALWAYS the right hand side
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Yeah, Rooney is capable of a nice cross field pass but Messi's long-range pass is excellent. He lands those wonderful looping long passes consistently right at the feet/head of his team mates. Rooney is adept at it more than anything.
 
Adebesi said:
Im reasonably confident Mourinho will make that happen.
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Mourinho definitely takes difficult decisions with regards to big names, however, we're giving him a situation to deal with which will cause friction. The club needs to sit down and take a call IMO, because Rooney won't react well when Mourinho rotates drops him. You want to avoid the Chelsea dressing room issues (under AVG and Mourinho).
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Not necessarily. Clubs are known to do a thing called "transfers". It's where you sell a player despite them having a contract.
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The possibility of a Rooney transfer is exactly zero!

Rooney has a guaranteed contract for another 3 years, with top money, perhaps 300k a week.

He probably makes more than that in various commercial deals, appearances, etc.

He is a legend already. The all time top scorer.

He is guaranteed to become an ambassador for the club when he retires.

Why would he drop all these to play for another club???

Zero possibility! :wenger:
 
clarkydaz said:
Please don't compare Rooneys passing skills with Messi or Scholes, its embarrassing. That pass to the right wing is his default setting and has been the day since Scholes left the building, its predictable and limited for a supposed playmaker. About 1 in 4 come off. In the middle of the pitch he doesnt have the touch or agility to play short give and goes, hence the golf shot every game to the right, and its ALWAYS the right hand side
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That predictable and limited pass is the only reason we got 3 points on Saturday. 1 in 4? Make that up much? Any links to that stat?

I made a post about him playing as a deep lying playmaker... where he is not playing short give and go passes like Barcelona so that criticism is meaningless. As I said... you let him play to his strengths.
 
nick2004 said:
The possibility of a Rooney transfer is exactly zero!

Rooney has a guaranteed contract for another 3 years, with top money, perhaps 300k a week.

He probably makes more than that in various commercial deals, appearances, etc.

He is a legend already. The all time top scorer.

He is guaranteed to become an ambassador for the club when he retires.

Why would he drop all these to play for another club???

Zero possibility! :wenger:
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Listen, your love for him is bursting through your posts, and it's hard to discuss rationally so can you leave it aside?

I agree that there's no reason for Rooney to move, however, if Mourinho tells him he wont be a starter he may think about it. Also, whether Rooney likes or not, whether he's our top scorer or not, Mourinho can bench him and start him every third game. Which is basically problem solved for me, as I outlined two favorable scenarios - A) Rooney gone, or B) Rooney not a guaranteed starter.
 
ZupZup said:
That predictable and limited pass is the only reason we got 3 points on Saturday. 1 in 4? Make that up much? Any links to that stat?

I made a post about him playing as a deep lying playmaker... where he is not playing short give and go passes like Barcelona so that criticism is meaningless. As I said... you let him play to his strengths.
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The point is that his long range passing isn't excellent. He's already given you two names who are genuinely excellent passers.

What are his strengths in midfield? His passing is just about passable, he plays like an old man and he has no defensive awareness. Play him in midfield and watch our midfield go to pieces. Worst idea ever. Is he going to be a deep lying playmaker who only passes it long?
 
amolbhatia50k said:
The point is that his long range passing isn't excellent. He's already given you two names who are genuinely excellent passers.

What are his strengths in midfield? His passing is just about passable, he plays like an old man and he has no defensive awareness. Play him in midfield and watch our midfield go to pieces. Worst idea ever. Is he going to be a deep lying playmaker who only passes it long?
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Stopped reading when you said his long range passing wasn't excellent so we'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Listen, your love for him is bursting through your posts, and it's hard to discuss rationally so can you leave it aside?
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It is not love. It is just rational though and cold facts!

If Real wanted Rooney today, doubling his salary ... at this point of his life he would NOT move. There is absolutely no reason for Rooney to move.

When the club signed a 5-year, 300k per week deal, it was clear that they signed Rooney for life. Such a deal comes directly from the top, from the owners.

Rooney is not going anywhere. He will be here for decades, in one capacity or other. And of course, this is very good business for the club, too. The club shows respect to the all-time top scorer. As it should.
 
ZupZup said:
Stopped reading when you said his long range passing wasn't excellent so we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Fair enough, but I think you're mixing long-range passing with cross-field passing. Rooney can definitely hit a good cross field pass to the free man in loads of space near the touchline (usually Valencia over the years). However, long range passing, for me, also includes those infinitely harder ones that Messi plays that are lobbed over defences and bang on the money 8/10 times. Someone who can also do that is a truly excellent long range passer. If you still disagree then agree to disagree with you :)
 
nick2004 said:
It is not love. It is just rational though and cold facts!

If Real wanted Rooney today, doubling his salary ... at this point of his life he would NOT move. There is absolutely no reason for Rooney to move.

When the club signed a 5-year, 300k per week deal, it was clear that they signed Rooney for life. Such a deal comes directly from the top, from the owners.

Rooney is not going anywhere. He will be here for decades, in one capacity or other. And of course, this is very good business for the club, too. The club shows respect to the all-time top scorer. As it should.
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I have no issue with that. As long as he isn't a guaranteed starter, and plays on merit, then I'm happy with him whether he's the tea ladyman, or ambassador.
 
ZupZup said:
That predictable and limited pass is the only reason we got 3 points on Saturday. 1 in 4? Make that up much? Any links to that stat?

I made a post about him playing as a deep lying playmaker... where he is not playing short give and go passes like Barcelona so that criticism is meaningless. As I said... you let him play to his strengths.
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And thus hurting the team further. How about focusing on boosting the team rather than exploring every single possibility of shoehorning a has-been in it?

Like I wrote earlier:

1. Plays as a striker for five matches without contributing anything. "I think his best position is no.10".
2. Plays five matches as a no.10 without contributing. "Would like to see him get a run of games as a striker".
3. Plays another four matches as a striker before he finally scores. "Proves his critics wrong. Shows he's still a class player".
4. Next two matches he's back to his usual "retirement-worthy" level. "He lost a bit of pace, but he can still deliver those fantastic passes in a midfield role".
5. Ends up being our worst player after a few games in midfield. "He s constantly being played out of position".
6. "No matter where you play him, he will still work his socks off". That's true – at a pace of -0,65mph. But he still works his socks off!
7. Back in a striker role, but he still underperforms. "He gets no service. On top of that, we need more Englishmen around him as he can't understand those Spanish guys."


On top of that it's acceptable that he needs about 4393939493939499 matches to regain a hint of form after being out with a broken toenail. It's the Circle of Life featuring Wayne Rooney and his merry men.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Fair enough, but I think you're mixing long-range passing with cross-field passing. Rooney can definitely hit a good cross field pass to the free man in loads of space near the touchline (usually Valencia over the years). However, long range passing, for me, also includes those infinitely harder ones that Messi plays that are lobbed over defences and bang on the money 8/10 times. Someone who can also do that is a truly excellent long range passer. If you still disagree then agree to disagree with you :)
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That cross field pass is the long pass he is best at hitting - true. It was the same pass that Scholes was best at too and I've never seen a better passer of the ball in a United shirt than him. Not that I am saying Rooney is near that level... but it's not the only one he can hit.

Look at the ball over the top he plays for RVP to win us the league against Villa. It's easy to act like these are some sort of fluke and as if he mishits 9 to land 1 but that's just not the case at all. His long passing accuracy stats are actually decent. Anyway, we obviously disagree but if we all had the same opinion, it'd be boring eh?
 
ZupZup said:
That cross field pass is the long pass he is best at hitting - true. It was the same pass that Scholes was best at too and I've never seen a better passer of the ball in a United shirt than him. Not that I am saying Rooney is near that level... but it's not the only one he can hit.

Look at the ball over the top he plays for RVP to win us the league against Villa. It's easy to act like these are some sort of fluke and as if he mishits 9 to land 1 but that's just not the case at all. His long passing accuracy stats are actually decent. Anyway, we obviously disagree but if we all had the same opinion, it'd be boring eh?
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Do you realize how long back that was? If he was a great long passer he'd have hit those with regularity. If Neymar made that run he makes for Barca, or Alba, would you back Rooney to pick him out the way Messi does? I wouldn't.

But forget that, we obviously disagree. I'm more interested in how anyone can think Rooney would make a good CM.
 
BarstoolProphet said:
And thus hurting the team further. How about focusing on boosting the team rather than exploring every single possibility of shoehorning a has-been in it?

Like I wrote earlier:

1. Plays as a striker for five matches without contributing anything. "I think his best position is no.10".
2. Plays five matches as a no.10 without contributing. "Would like to see him get a run of games as a striker".
3. Plays another four matches as a striker before he finally scores. "Proves his critics wrong. Shows he's still a class player".
4. Next two matches he's back to his usual "retirement-worthy" level. "He lost a bit of pace, but he can still deliver those fantastic passes in a midfield role".
5. Ends up being our worst player after a few games in midfield. "He s constantly being played out of position".
6. "No matter where you play him, he will still work his socks off". That's true – at a pace of -0,65mph. But he still works his socks off!
7. Back in a striker role, but he still underperforms. "He gets no service. On top of that, we need more Englishmen around him as he can't understand those Spanish guys."


On top of that it's acceptable that he needs about 4393939493939499 matches to regain a hint of form after being out with a broken toenail. It's the Circle of Life featuring Wayne Rooney and his merry men.
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This isnt a fair summary of Rooney's contribution. Around 4) he would have a hot streak of form where he would score 6 or 7 goals in as many games. Then 5) he would get injured and be out for 3 or 4 weeks, and then 6) he would come back and be back to not contributing a great deal.

I would also say its a bit of an exaggeration to say he contributes nothing when he has those periods of not scoring, there is something in terms of attitude, desire for the ball and determination, that good old fashioned English grit that he definitely adds, for me. (Actually that is something we need to buy more of in the summer so we dont have to rely on Rooney so much for it.)

As always I think a lot of people in these threads are too harsh on Rooney and are blinded by their hatred, disappointment, resentment over old contract negotiations or whatever else, and go overboard in their criticism (Sunday League Player / My gran has a better touch etc). I agree he isnt good enough to be a starter for us anymore and there is some concern about what dropping him to squad player status will mean, both in terms of morale and in terms of whether he can make an impact without playing regularly. I think we have to cross those bridges when we come to them. But in terms of ability alone he is good enough to be a squad player for us, and given the status of his contract that is probably as good as its going to get in the short term.
 
nick2004 said:
The possibility of a Rooney transfer is exactly zero!

Rooney has a guaranteed contract for another 3 years, with top money, perhaps 300k a week.

He probably makes more than that in various commercial deals, appearances, etc.

He is a legend already. The all time top scorer.

He is guaranteed to become an ambassador for the club when he retires.

Why would he drop all these to play for another club???

Zero possibility! :wenger:
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Agree UNLESS he gets dropped on a consistent basis. He's just not the type to accept a bench role.
 
Haha!
I knew the Villa pass would make an appearance.
John O'Shea nutmegged Figo once as well, so that makes him a genius dribbler.
Rooney took advantage of Fergie and Gill leaving to negotiate a fat final contract. The board shit themselves at the thought of losing a third pillar of the club. What he has produced since has been average to downright embarrassing. The odd percentage pass to Valencia (from so deep that the box is empty for the cross) is not worthy of a place in the starting line.
 
Why does nick2004 call Rooney our all time top scorer in almost every post? He's not overtaken Charlton yet has he?
 
Some people on here seem to think that Rooney is (almost) like Pirlo, a true master of long passing. The level of delusion is amaizing.

Fact is, for all his "brilliant" passing and creativity, Rooney contributed 2 assists in the league over the past calendar year. Just 2. That's far worse than the contributions of some defenders. But never let the facts stand in the way of your delusions of grandeur, Rooney fanboys. Rooney is a creative genius no matter what.
 
LeftyBlaster said:
Oh shit Rooney hit a cross field ball onto a right winger against the worst team in the league and so we should play him in midfield? Dang.

Nutjobs.
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In fairness, Paul Scholes thinks he should play there too... although I suppose he's clearly a nutjob as well and you're obviously in a much better position to judge from your armchair and experience of playing 5-a-side at the local leisure centre.
 
ZupZup said:
In fairness, Paul Scholes thinks he should play there too... although I suppose he's clearly a nutjob as well and you're obviously in a much better position to judge from your armchair and experience of playing 5-a-side at the local leisure centre.
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Didn't Rooney play in midfiled many games last season? Was it a successful experiment?
 
ZupZup said:
In fairness, Paul Scholes thinks he should play there too... although I suppose he's clearly a nutjob as well and you're obviously in a much better position to judge from your armchair and experience of playing 5-a-side at the local leisure centre.
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Ex-player pundits say all sorts of things.
 
ZupZup said:
In fairness, Paul Scholes thinks he should play there too... although I suppose he's clearly a nutjob as well and you're obviously in a much better position to judge from your armchair and experience of playing 5-a-side at the local leisure centre.
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On that topic, he is indeed a nutjob and more on the side of "so completely wrong" than LeftyBlaster "5 aside nobody".

Actually Sir Alex once called Jones someone who could be our greatest ever player so players and managers always do get things right after all.
 
I've been major critical of his fall from grace and high standards, when you have millions upon millions in the bank, won pretty much there is to win, what inspires you to carry on with that hunger and determination of old?

Jose could be the man to squeeze out a few more miles out of the tank, maybe a kick up the proverbial from a elite level coach who can simplify his role unlike LVG, is what he needs.

Maybe I'm clutching at straws, but I still think the ability is there sadly weighed down by a lifestyle and riches that could lead to your ego over ruling your core ability.
 
You look at Harry Kane just now - he is on a different level from Rooney altogether. He needs to re-invent himself, or basically just do something to get himself going again.
 
id love if someone could post a gif one of Rooneys' heatseekers that sailed completely out of play on the 50th minute mark. And yes he did play midfield last season, clearly a resounding success if people cant remember it
 
ZupZup said:
In fairness, Paul Scholes thinks he should play there too... although I suppose he's clearly a nutjob as well and you're obviously in a much better position to judge from your armchair and experience of playing 5-a-side at the local leisure centre.
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In this case Scholes is wrong. People completely ignore so many factors such as Rooney's age, poor close control, lack of awareness, and the fact that he requires a ton of space and time to even hit those passes you jerk off over (which Villa so kindly gave him). Also, his short-medium range passing is just woefully inconsistent, and that's putting it nicely. So too his lack of defensive awareness. Chasing the ball like a headless chicken doesn't count as defensively capable.

For your information, I've seen 50 year olds at my local league who don't cannon the ball 30 feet back every time they touch it.
 
LeftyBlaster said:
In this case Scholes is wrong. People completely ignore so many factors such as Rooney's age, poor close control, lack of awareness, and the fact that he requires a ton of space and time to even hit those passes you jerk off over (which Villa so kindly gave him). Also, his short-medium range passing is just woefully inconsistent, and that's putting it nicely. So too his lack of defensive awareness. Chasing the ball like a headless chicken doesn't count as defensively capable.

For your information, I've seen 50 year olds at my local league who don't cannon the ball 30 feet back every time they touch it.
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Are they free Saturdays and Sundays...may be needed occasionally midweek?
 
clarkydaz said:
id love if someone could post a gif one of Rooneys' heatseekers that sailed completely out of play on the 50th minute mark. And yes he did play midfield last season, clearly a resounding success if people cant remember it
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Or when Memphis played him in and his touch went 5 yards in front of him.

Seriously, you look at Kane, Aguero, Lukaku and Vardy this season. They are fecking miles ahead of Rooney. The level he plays at is nowhere near good enough to be a starting striker for a team that supposedly wants to win the league. I'm pretty sure Defoe, Aguero, Kane and Sigurdsson have all scored more goals since new year than Rooney has all season. He's our Gerrard.
 
Baxter said:
Or when Memphis played him in and his touch went 5 yards in front of him.

Seriously, you look at Kane, Aguero, Lukaku and Vardy this season. They are fecking miles ahead of Rooney. The level he plays at is nowhere near good enough to be a starting striker for a team that supposedly wants to win the league. I'm pretty sure Defoe, Aguero, Kane and Sigurdsson have all scored more goals since new year than Rooney has all season. He's our Gerrard.
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That was something else :lol:
 
Baxter said:
Or when Memphis played him in and his touch went 5 yards in front of him.

Seriously, you look at Kane, Aguero, Lukaku and Vardy this season. They are fecking miles ahead of Rooney. The level he plays at is nowhere near good enough to be a starting striker for a team that supposedly wants to win the league. I'm pretty sure Defoe, Aguero, Kane and Sigurdsson have all scored more goals since new year than Rooney has all season. He's our Gerrard.
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This - been saying it for years. His speculative cross field, "crowd pleaser" balls are smoke and mirrors to hide his terrible touch, lack of fitness, lack of application, lack of skill. Lets not forget that Valencia had it all to do to keep the ball in play prior to the goal on Saturday. Rooney done the exact same thing (except to the opposite wing) last Monday playing for the u21s. Showboat diagonal ball onto which Borthwick-Jackson had to break a neck sprinting flat-out to keep in play... but when he keeps the ball in play - Rooney gets the applause!

Absolutely baffling how people defend him & are blind to his decline. Capello even coming out today saying he has to go to the euros. I wonder how much of the PL Fabio has watched this season?
It's going to be satisfying watching Rooney be the dead-weight in the England team this summer & the subsequent and completely inevitable, media witch-hunt.

There's no doubt he's a club legend, but if we're playing players on past-form, lets bring Cantona back! The sooner I see Rooney's last game for Utd, the better.
 
iKeano said:
This - been saying it for years. His speculative cross field, "crowd pleaser" balls are smoke and mirrors to hide his terrible touch, lack of fitness, lack of application, lack of skill. Lets not forget that Valencia had it all to do to keep the ball in play prior to the goal on Saturday. Rooney done the exact same thing (except to the opposite wing) last Monday playing for the u21s. Showboat diagonal ball onto which Borthwick-Jackson had to break a neck sprinting flat-out to keep in play... but when he keeps the ball in play - Rooney gets the applause!

Absolutely baffling how people defend him & are blind to his decline. Capello even coming out today saying he has to go to the euros. I wonder how much of the PL Fabio has watched this season?
It's going to be satisfying watching Rooney be the dead-weight in the England team this summer & the subsequent and completely inevitable, media witch-hunt.

There's no doubt he's a club legend, but if we're playing players on past-form, lets bring Cantona back! The sooner I see Rooney's last game for Utd, the better.
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Yeah that pass is a very forgiving one and most footballers can hit it. The reason it's forgiving is that the player receiving it has time to adjust. They can shuttle left or right, bring it down with foot or chest. Big margin for error.

It's the quick, short passes where accuracy and correct weight is needed. That's when the likes of Rooney and Scneiderlin start to come unstuck.
 
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