The "England have had it easy" narrative

Random Task said:
Because it gets thrown in our faces at every turn, seemingly with the intent of diminishing the achievement. You really expect England fans to turn a blind eye to it all?
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Well I don't see what getting worked over is gonna do to be honest? If it was my team that was in the SF, then I sure as hell would've just laughed at those who tried to diminish the achievement and just moved on. It doesn't even matter for most.

Trying to say that it hasn't been an easy draw would just be false. Germany in 2002 had a very easy road to final, nobody remembers that now!
 
If England has had an easy route to semis, so has Croatia. In fact, they beat weaker teams than England (Colombia is better than Denmark and Russia). And for that matter, so has France. Argentina were atrocious, and Uruguay is slightly better than Colombia, but hardly world beaters. And like Colombia who missed James, Uruguay missed Cavani.

So, I guess only Belgium had a tough route cause they played Brazil. But then before Brazil, they faced Japan which was the worst team in the 1/8th of finals.

So, England has been lucky in the sense that:

- there hasn't been really top teams. However, that happens all the time. Not every world cup is stakced with super teams like 2006 was. Both 2014 and 2010 weren't that strong in that aspect. Holland defeated Mexico and Costa Rica (in pens) to reach semis last time around. Spain defeated Paraguay and Portugal (when they scored from an offside for the only goal of the match) to reach semis in 2010. Argentina needed extra times against Switzerland and then faced a young Belgium with an atrocious coach to reach semis last time around. Germany in 2002 reached final without meeting a good, let alone great, team in 2010. So, it happens all the time.

- Colombia missed James Rodriguez. Well, this is true. It could have gone some other way if this wasn't the case. Again, it happens. Uruguay missed Cavani too, but you hardly see every other post containing sentence 'France has been lucky'.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
At the Germans because they got knocked out the first round.

Just kidding, Germany won the world cup last time. If England win the World Cup this year, I don't care if they never qualify for the World Cup ever again.
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Well. I got really mad, then I cried (not literally, figuratively), then I got really mad again, not I'm just hopeful it will all get better. Laughing part will come if we win something again.
 
Take the saltiness as praise guys, they're obviously worried, and it's great fun to read.
 
acnumber9 said:
I don’t see how any of that changes a more comfortable route to a semi final than the norm. Would you rather play Colombia, Sweden and Croatia for a place in the final or Argentina, Uruguay and Belgium?
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Definitely Columbia, Sweden and Croatia.
 
Random Task said:
Because it gets thrown in our faces at every turn, seemingly with the intent of diminishing the achievement. You really expect England fans to turn a blind eye to it all?
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That's classic cognitive dissonance. Where stating a fact makes someone react negatively. England had a relatively easy path to the semi and it's great for the English game that they have taken advantage of it. This could be a platform for this squad plus some editions to have a good go at the World Cup and the Euros in the next 2-3 international competitions.

I felt that after the Iceland fiasco followed by the Allardyce fiasco followed by the appointment of someone already in the system that English football would take several years to recover. But fortunately Southgate has done a great job and fortune has favoured England.
 
In terms of opposition think England have been fortunate. Belgium and Colombia have been their toughest yet. Sweden are decent, but not good enough to beat England. Same is true for Croatia, in my opinion. But the final, if England make it, will be difficult regardless of the opposition.
 
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Southgate looked a boring, easy choice.
No-one, not even the most deluded over optimistic type (we all know one) thought we had a chance. The way it's all coming together has been incredible. We have certainly lost to crap teams before. We only have to remember Iceland.

Who on earth cares if a few bitters are saying it was an easy run to the semi!?

Imagine if we did the unthinkable and won it!
No-one is going to be saying, "Oh but you played Panama"
 
KM said:
Well I don't see what getting worked over is gonna do to be honest? If it was my team that was in the SF, then I sure as hell would've just laughed at those who tried to diminish the achievement and just moved on. It doesn't even matter for most.

Trying to say that it hasn't been an easy draw would just be false. Germany in 2002 had a very easy road to final, nobody remembers that now!
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Same for me.
Same is also said about France and tbh I don't find it wrong and I don't care. If someone wants to diminish your team's achievements, it's them who have issues, you have nothing to prove.
 
breakout67 said:
That's classic cognitive dissonance. Where stating a fact makes someone react negatively. England had a relatively easy path to the semi and it's great for the English game that they have taken advantage of it. This could be a platform for this squad plus some editions to have a good go at the World Cup and the Euros in the next 2-3 international competitions.

I felt that after the Iceland fiasco followed by the Allardyce fiasco followed by the appointment of someone already in the system that English football would take several years to recover. But fortunately Southgate has done a great job and fortune has favoured England.
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This is obviously a balanced and fair view. Only a madman would say it wasn't the easier side of the draw. That is not the same as easy though. But whatever, plenty of WUMMERs here obv just trying to piss on the parade. Prob shouldn't have taken the bait tbh.

It's coming home though, we're gonna be marching through the streets a week from now in blue waistcoats singing the national anthem. A real return to the glory years of the Empire. Hopefully this will be the catalyst to start reigning back some power from the little nations of orcs and hobbits that surround us. I'm not advocating any violence, but surely a little enforced swearing of allegiance to the crown and flag won't hurt.
 
InspiRED said:
This is obviously a balanced and fair view. Only a madman would say it wasn't the easier side of the draw. That is not the same as easy though. But whatever, plenty of WUMMERs here obv just trying to piss on the parade. Prob shouldn't have taken the bait tbh.

It's coming home though, we're gonna be marching through the streets a week from now in blue waistcoats singing the national anthem. A real return to the glory years of the Empire. Hopefully this will be the catalyst to start reigning back some power from the little nations of orcs and hobbits that surround us. I'm not advocating any violence, but surely a little enforced swearing of allegiance to the crown and flag won't hurt.
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Alright I know you're joking(or hoping you're joking) but calm down fella.
 
InspiRED said:
It's coming home though, we're gonna be marching through the streets a week from now in blue waistcoats singing the national anthem. A real return to the glory years of the Empire. Hopefully this will be the catalyst to start reigning back some power from the little nations of orcs and hobbits that surround us. I'm not advocating any violence, but surely a little enforced swearing of allegiance to the crown and flag won't hurt.
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:lol::lol::lol:
 
KM said:
Alright I know you're joking(or hoping you're joking) but calm down fella.
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:lol: that was actually an attempt to take some of the sting out of it. But yeah, joking...
 
So bizarre that some are pointing to Croatia as a reason why England have not had it easy. England have not yet beaten Croatia numb nuts. If they do beat them and go on to beat France/Belgium then it doesn't change the fact that they have had an easier route than others but it will mean that they have now beaten two of the best teams in the tournament and deserve to be champions.

That has not yet happened though so hold your horses.
 
17 Van der Gouw said:
Nobody's pining for praise, it's just a pity that we can't enjoy supporting our team without the constant drone of 'England don't deserve it' going on in the background.
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So you're happy to have had a piss easy run but not happy when people mention it. Must be tough to deal with :(
 
Alex99 said:
*snip*
You can only beat what's put in front of you, and in the 15 matches England have played to first qualify for the tournament and now progress through it, they've won 12, drawn two, and lost just one, that being a non-event final group game with both teams already qualified and rotating their squads heavily. Frankly, it's bollocks to say England have had it easy, because there's no easy way to make it to a World Cup semi-final.
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You've had it easier, not easy. Colombia was a tough match and deserves credit (for the win on penalties). Sweden were a walk-over - genuinely boring at times. I think the problem for a lot of people has been that England haven't really played that well at any time (against anyone of note) and yet should probably make the final. I mean, it's not England's fault but it's just a comment on reality.

Hopefully Croatia show up and play to their potential so we get a good game in the semi-final, regardless of who makes the final.
 
KM said:
Well I don't see what getting worked over is gonna do to be honest? If it was my team that was in the SF, then I sure as hell would've just laughed at those who tried to diminish the achievement and just moved on. It doesn't even matter for most.

Trying to say that it hasn't been an easy draw would just be false. Germany in 2002 had a very easy road to final, nobody remembers that now!
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The thing is, England are hardly a top-ranked nation themselves, so the likes of Columbia and Sweden - who were ranked only a few places below England before the tournament began - were a sterner test than some might have expected. I do admit that the draw could have been far harsher, though.

In any case, we're all United fans at the end of the day, so come the first day of the season I would expect all of this world cup business to have blown over and we will get back to slating Jose, Fellaini, Martial and Rashford, the Glazers, Fred The Red etc. And eachother, of course.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
P


Not really true though is it?

You lost to the eventual champion in 02, lost to finalist in 04, semi finalist in 06. Only from 08 onwards were you become a bit crap, but generally still good enough to make it out of groups provided you get there.

The country still has a big football tradition, following and infrastructure. Most of your squad ply their trade at top clubs in one of the best league in the world, with regular exposure to CL football. Beating the likes of Colombia and Sweden shouldn’t be seen as some sort of Herculean tasks.
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What is it with you people exaggerating one way or the other? Who has claimed it's been any kind of herculean task ffs :lol:

I'm on the side that it has been an easy run. My point was merely we feck even the easy stuff up most times so I'm quite happy with that.
 
SteveW said:
So you're happy to have had a piss easy run but not happy when people mention it. Must be tough to deal with :(
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I don't care about people mentioning we've had an easy run, I just think it's a pity some people are so bitter about it.
 
Such a weird thing to care about. Whether or not your team’s route to a final is perceived as easy or not. I genuinely cannot remember how difficult United’s fixtures were the last time we won cup competitions. Did we get an easy run of games when Van Gaal won the FA Cup? I have no idea. There’s always at least one top opponent anyway. Usually two. It’s not as though the best team wins every cup competition anyway. But none of that matters when the trophies are counted.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Such a weird thing to care about. Whether or not your team’s route to a final is perceived as easy or not. I genuinely cannot remember how difficult United’s fixtures were the last time we won cup competitions. Did we get an easy run of games when Van Gaal won the FA Cup? I have no idea. There’s always at least one top opponent anyway. Usually two. It’s not as though the best team wins every cup competition anyway. But none of that matters when the trophies are counted.
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Which is fine, but why take such pleasure in discussing 'sunburned cnuts' singing their national anthem? All it does is make you look bitter and inherently anti-English.

FWIW, I don't give a feck what anybody thinks, but like I've said before, it's just a bit of a pity that one or two of our neighbours feel so compelled to fling shite at us for enjoying our relative success this year.
 
The United Irishman said:
All fabricated and codswallop mate(Go back and read what I said)! What exactly do you want from us? To give England unnecessary praise? Why can't you just enjoy it instead of ranting about non England fans stating the obvious. I am having a good laugh at your rants they are very funny, it's like a child in a room full of adults screaming at the top of his voice to obtain attention for absolutely no reason at all.
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There's something ironic about an Irishman accusing someone of being like a child in a room screaming for attention, when they're doing so when trying to downplay the achievements of a team in a tournament that Ireland didn't even qualify for. What does that make you? The uninvited guest hammering on the window to be let in?

Go back and read what you said? You said this: "Croatia is the first true test"

How is responding to that with the bits you've put in bold "fabricated and codswallop"? For Croatia to be the first test you have to discount Sweden and Colombia. What point are you even trying to make there?

The rest of it you can deny being what will happen, but given that it's fair to say many would say both France and Belgium are stronger than Croatia, and given that Colombia and then Sweden were going to find England out, should England win Wednesday, the winner of the other semi-final becomes "the first true test" and Croatia were just another team England should have beaten.

I keep seeing people say to England fans that they should just enjoy it, which we are, it's just weird that the same people telling England fans to enjoy it are doing their utmost to belittle and downplay what England have done so far this tournament. Like, it's not really taking any enjoyment away from the tournament for me, it's just bizarre and slightly tiring to hear "England are shit and everyone they've played is shit," from the same people who've also been going "England won't beat Tunisia. England won't beat Colombia. England won't beat Sweden," but are then going "Don't know why you care, just enjoy it," when England fans turn around and go "Well, we're not shit, and those teams weren't shit."
 
Surely most intelligent observers, including partisan English fans who are rightly excited at the moment, would accept that this team have only really been tested for 20 mins against Colombia. It was real panic stations when Columbia finally started to play ball. That would be my worry for England on Wednesday, they might face their first proper test.
 
England had an easy path to semi final. It's delusional to say otherwise but at the end you can only play what's front of you and any other team would have loved to take that route if he was offered to so no shame. It's like saying United won cups because of having an easy path, even if it's true it's something you can't control and at the end people will only remembering you winning the cup or -in case of England- reach semi final. It remains an achievement.
 
Germany’s path to the final in 2002:

Ireland, Cameroon and Saudi Arabia in the groups.

Paraguay
USA
South Korea

England’s route has been much harder than that. Colombia are a really good side and Sweden have take Holland, Italy and Germany to get to the 1/4 finals.

It’s not an easy route and even if it is then there have been much easier in the past.
 
Offside said:
Germany’s path to the final in 2002:

Ireland, Cameroon and Saudi Arabia in the groups.

Paraguay
USA
South Korea

England’s route has been much harder than that. Colombia are a really good side and Sweden have take Holland, Italy and Germany to get to the 1/4 finals.

It’s not an easy route and even if it is then there have been much easier in the past.
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Cameroon and South Korea of 2002 are much better teams than what England have faced thus far.

It's okay to accept this has been an easy route. The real tests were Colombia (missing their key man) and Belgium. England looking poor against these two teams when pressed is a worry heading into the Croatia game.

History will not take away from the achievement of the squad. You beat what's in front of you.
 
In a couple of years no-one will remember details like how easy/hard the route to the final was compared to other teams. The only detail people will remember will be where we finish. Frankly I think they've done terrifically well.
 
Dont know why anyone is bothering to deny England have had a cake walk to the semis. From the qualifiers, to the groups, through the knockout stages so far. Colombia might be a good side usually, but they havent been this tournament like a lot of others. Sweden had their moments but in the end are little more than a championship side. Germany, Argentina, Brazil, etc have all shit the bed. Some even before making it the finals. England have worked together as a team to make sure theyve beaten whoever theyve come up against. You earned your placed by beating who was in front of you. So it why waste your time trying to make out youve been the underdogs? Enjoy where you are and stop trying to make it more than what it is. Im scottish, you think Id care if we got an easy route to the finals? feck no. Id enjoy the fact we had finally made it back after 20 years, and that would be that.

England are in the semis for the first time in 28 years. In the nicest possible way, just shut up and enjoy it.
 
PepsiCola said:
Cameroon and South Korea of 2002 are much better teams than what England have faced thus far.

It's okay to accept this has been an easy route. The real tests were Colombia (missing their key man) and Belgium. England looking poor against these two teams when pressed is a worry heading into the Croatia game.

History will not take away from the achievement of the squad. You beat what's in front of you.
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The Belgium game was a dead rubber though. Neither team played their first 11 so any conclusions based on that performance are largely irrelevant.
 
Rory 7 said:
Surely most intelligent observers, including partisan English fans who are rightly excited at the moment, would accept that this team have only really been tested for 20 mins against Colombia. It was real panic stations when Columbia finally started to play ball. That would be my worry for England on Wednesday, they might face their first proper test.
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I'd argue conceding a last minute equaliser and then going to penalties was rather a big test. For a nation that's lost 5 penalty shootouts in a row.

Probably the biggest mental block in English football history and despite going behind in the shootout they managed to dig deep and win anyway.
 
KM said:
Well I don't see what getting worked over is gonna do to be honest? If it was my team that was in the SF, then I sure as hell would've just laughed at those who tried to diminish the achievement and just moved on. It doesn't even matter for most.

Trying to say that it hasn't been an easy draw would just be false. Germany in 2002 had a very easy road to final, nobody remembers that now!
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Really? I'd have said that pretty much everyone remembers. If you win it, people forget. If you lose against the first elite team you meet, people remember it. Even if it's in the final. English fans shouldn't care though. Didn't matter at all, who we were up against in 2002. The way to the final in 2002 was so much fun. Every knockout game at a World Cup is truely exciting and worth celebrating. Enjoy the ride.
 
rpitroda said:
I don’t get this.

It is obvious England have had a relatively easy route to the semi’s.

Having said that, does anyone care? No. Will anyone remember it in the future? No.

I don’t see why people must try and make the bizarre point that it hasn’t been an easier route. It has. But so what?
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This. /thread.
 
17 Van der Gouw said:
Which is fine, but why take such pleasure in discussing 'sunburned cnuts' singing their national anthem? All it does is make you look bitter and inherently anti-English.

FWIW, I don't give a feck what anybody thinks, but like I've said before, it's just a bit of a pity that one or two of our neighbours feel so compelled to fling shite at us for enjoying our relative success this year.
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When we enjoyed Liverpool losing the CL final, was that all out of bitterness then I assume?

I mean this is the bizarre logic I seem to be seeing. When I screamed 'YES' when Colombia scored their equaliser, I was bitter? Fecking weird in my opinion.

I wanted Belgium to beat Brazil the other night - guess Brazillians must consider me bitter as well.
 
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