The future under Van Gaal - lay your chips

Sammyjunn said:
Well if you cant win the games vs the smaller clubs, you'll never become champion. We cant unlock teams who park the bus and that's a huge problem that will hunt us. Who says we wont have another start like that with new players coming in, and not even results wise, but for a part of the season, some were questioning if we play the worst brand of football in the league, the football weve showed for the biggest part of the season, doesnt give hope for a title winning side imo, just not good enough for that.
Click to expand...

Because I think we need only small changes to solve that problem. We seriously lack directness and pace up front, which will change hopefully next year. I think Depay can be really huge next year. With a better and more settled defence and the midfielder we need I also think we can play more attacking without conceding in every fecking game. We showed that we can score plenty of goals on our good days, the right changes and we will see that more often and consistent, that's the main problem, we lacking consistency, but I totally expected that after last year with a new manager, playstyle and old players gone and new arriving + injuries.
 
Pyroblazer said:
Because I think we need only small changes to solve that problem. We seriously lack directness and pace up front, which will change hopefully next year. I think Depay can be really huge next year. With a better and more settled defence and the midfielder we need I also think we can play more attacking without conceding in every fecking game. We showed that we can score plenty of goals on our good days, the right changes and we will see that more often and consistent, that's the main problem, we lacking consistency, but I totally expected that after last year with a new manager, playstyle and old players gone and new arriving + injuries.
Click to expand...
We've scored more than 3 on just 2 occassiond this seasin, I dont think we can score a lot, because simply we dont create a lot.
 
Kag said:
We won't get 13 points out of a possible 30 at the start of next season. I'm no psychic but I'm quite certain of that. Our start was genuinely appalling, something that will not be repeated.

We do struggle to break down compact sides but that can be rectified. We've already bought a goalscoring forward in Depay that can help us change that. We won't stop there either.
Click to expand...
I really do Rate Depay, but he plays in a side that's fast on the break, and were by far the best in tbe league, PSV creates relatively more chances than we do and the ERedivisie is weaker than the PL, I dont expect him to score more than 10.
 
Sammyjunn said:
I really do Rate Depay, but he plays in a side that's fast on the break, and were by far the best in tbe league, PSV creates relatively more chances than we do and the ERedivisie is weaker than the PL, I dont expect him to score more than 10.
Click to expand...
So you expect us to remain exactly the same next season? We will make signings mate, the team we will see next season shall be totally different.

Once we get our back 4 and midfield sorted, we shall start scoring goals for fun.
 
Garethw said:
With the exception of 5-6 matches, have we really been any better than last season?

We've been absolutely dreadful for the vast majority of this season, but luckily for us both Liverpool and Spurs have been even worse.

LVG has been a massive disappointment.
Click to expand...

Yes we have been better and right from the start of the season. Even at our worst, in our worst matches, the players have shown more fight, a much improved attitude and followed LVG's orders with better direction than anything we saw under Moyes. That shit matters big time whether you acknowledge it or not.

I feel sorry for people who can't see this subtle (but ultimately massive) difference.
 
Kill 'em all said:
So you expect us to remain exactly the same next season? We will make signings mate, the team we will see next season shall be totally different.

Once we get our back 4 and midfield sorted, we shall start scoring goals for fun.
Click to expand...
Well we made them too this season, and we barely improved.

What makes you think we're gonna challenge for the title with these new signings? Everyone will make new signings, that doesnt mean everyone will all of a sudden challenge for the title.
 
Kill 'em all said:
Some of you lot really don't realize how lucky we are to have a manager of his quality here.
Click to expand...

We had the best manager of all time for twenty odd years. We were infinitely lucky to have had Sir Alex but i can't say the same about Louis Van Gaal. Not even close as of yet.
 
I was thinking the other day how well it was all shaping up. LVGs three years coming toan end next season with Pep's contract also up. Could see Pep taking over! Then i realised LVG has only been here a year! Its been a long painful season, awful for the most part.

But there has been hope, we've got top 4, we'll bring in some great players in the summer. Ings aside we've been linked with pretty much only players who improve us. We already have Depay coming too. The players are slowly getting the hang of what LVG wants them to do and once we have another proper CM aside from Carrick I think we'll be in a great position.

To me the future looks good. If we're only scraping top 4 next season we'll have to reasses, but i'm happy, after last season, with how this one has gone.
 
Red Pavan said:
We had the best manager of all time for twenty odd years. We were infinitely lucky to have had Sir Alex but i can't say the same about Louis Van Gaal. Not even close as of yet.
Click to expand...

I know this is the United forum and all that but as far as I'm concerned, steady on.

Ferguson was great but he wasn't flawless and there's qualities in Van Gaal that Ferguson never had (and of course vice versa).
 
Sammyjunn said:
Well we made them too this season, and we barely improved.

What makes you think we're gonna challenge for the title with these new signings? Everyone will make new signings, that doesnt mean everyone will all of a sudden challenge for the title.
Click to expand...

But we have improved, this is the point. I find it stunning that people can't identify the really obvious tactical differences this season, and how much scope there is to improve on what Van Gaal is trying to implement. What he wants us to do is difficult and won't be achieved in one season. It's a work in progress.

The signings we made last summer were years too late. Herrera was the first proper central midfielder we had bought in seven or eight seasons. The new signings, this time, will have been extensively scouted and fit the requirements Van Gaal wants. That doesn't guarantee success, but it's the most organised we will have been in a number of years.
 
Sammyjunn said:
Well we made them too this season, and we barely improved.

What makes you think we're gonna challenge for the title with these new signings? Everyone will make new signings, that doesnt mean everyone will all of a sudden challenge for the title.
Click to expand...
He's a top manager. During the first 10 games we had to play Blackett, Lingard and McNair. Our season has been plagued with injuries, we're playing Valencia at right back because we don't have a right back that's actually fit and we still managed 4th. I think that's an achievement in itself.

You can pick more than half of our starting 11 and they would get nowhere near Arsenal, Manchester City or Chelsea's starting 11.

We are lucky to have Louis van Gaal as our manager.
 
Sammyjunn said:
Ferguson is widely rated as the best/greatest manager ever, you dont have to be an United fan to realise that.
Click to expand...

Oh for god sake, he's in the conversation but you don't have be super bright to see there's a few contenders to that title and suggesting Ferguson has it sewn up is just plain ignorant.

Just because United fans and the English media suggest it, doesn't mean it's true. His record in Europe for one is pretty unremarkable.
 
Kag said:
But we have improved, this is the point. I find it stunning that people can't identify the really obvious tactical differences this season, and how much scope there is to improve on what Van Gaal is trying to implement. What he wants us to do is difficult and won't be achieved in one season. It's a work in progress.

The signings we made last summer were years too late. Herrera was the first proper central midfielder be had bought in seven or eight seasons. The new signings, this time, will have been extensively scouted and fit the requirements Van Gaal wants. That doesn't guarantee success, but it's the most organised we will have been in a number of years.
Click to expand...
That still doesnt mean we will challenge for the title next year, we have improved, I admit that. But yet it's barely and very marginally. Against top sides Im content about what he's done, we have bigger chance to beat top sides than we even had under SAF in his latest years, other than that Im very disappounted and shocked with how poor it has been often. Our defence is shambles, our midfield fails to create or raise the tempo offen, our attack is static, lack goalscoring ability and generally, I think the cohesion in the team isnt that well yet. Our different lines, still dont connect eith eachother often, our midfield-defence barrier is still too significant, we fail to bring the ball from the ball properly, but our midfield-attack worries me the most, he's renowned for his attacking football, how often has he got you excited? After a year, we still manage to play that slow, boring, unexciting football against the bigger teams, and unless we buy Xavi/Kroos/Modric/Fabregas, there's no reason why I think this will change so drastically fornus to become steady title challengers.

I am not saying we wont improve, but really dont understand how people believe firmly that we'll challenge next year, when are rivals have been better than us by quite a distance and will also improve.
 
Kill 'em all said:
He's a top manager. During the first 10 games we had to play Blackett, Lingard and McNair. Our season has been plagued with injuries, we're playing Valencia at right back because we don't have a right back that's actually fit and we still managed 4th. I think that's an achievement in itself.

You can pick more than half of our starting 11 and they would get nowhere near Arsenal, Manchester City or Chelsea's starting 11.

We are lucky to have Louis van Gaal as our manager.
Click to expand...
Yeah that's after the season, on paper at the 1st of september, you'd say Ddg, Rafa, Shaw, Carrick, di Maria, Herrera, Rooney, Falcao could all get in those teams, but the fact is, it's LVG who hasnt managed to get the most/something out of them, it can eeally happen next year too, that his signings just flop. We spent 180 million under him but hardly improved in quality it seems, same could happen this summer easily, as you just dont know wheter the signings will integrate into our team and be a succes, something he has yet to prove. Werent there even discussions that at his former clubs, he didnt made the best signings, but the players who were already there and the youth, LVG made huge succes out of them?
 
The Azzurri said:
Can't see us getting better next season. We are progressing painfully slow. Just when we thought we knew how to play to his philosophy, we once again revert back to sideways and backward passing. We will scrap for forth this season, next season and the season after next. That is after millions and millions of money being invested to the squad
Click to expand...

That's the spirit.
 
I guess he has earned a second season then by getting the club back into European football's premier competition. (Not that I agree with it)

Next season he has to either deliver the Premier league or win both the domestic cup competitions, Also the playing style has been dire this season, the pointless passing has to be replaced by cutting edge precision passing and his long balls to Fellaini have to stop, even as a plan B. I would also like to see him on the touchline more but that is wishful thinking probably.

The summer transfer window is also very important, not a single transfer of 2014 has been a unanimous success, obviously not much was expected of Rojo and Blind but all the big money signings Shaw, Herrera, Di Maria have not impressed that much. We need more top class players and We need to get these players in early, have a good pre season and kick off the season by winning a lot of games.
 
SonnyTheHaloPro said:
I guess he has earned a second season then by getting the club back into European football's premier competition. (Not that I agree with it)
Click to expand...

After the debacle of last season and the injuries he has had to deal with yeah just a bit.

SonnyTheHaloPro said:
Next season he has to either deliver the Premier league or win both the domestic cup competitions, Also the playing style has been dire this season, the pointless passing has to be replaced by cutting edge precision passing and his long balls to Fellaini have to stop, even as a plan B. I would also like to see him on the touchline more but that is wishful thinking probably.
Click to expand...

The aim will be to challenge for the title and do well in europe, cup competitions are a bonus and a lottery. Seeing as only 3 teams have ever won both domestic cups in a season any chairman who set that as a goal for a manager would be an absolute moron.

Why do you want to see him on the touchline more?
 
To be fair my mind is permanently changing when it comes to LvG. He is without a doubt one of the greatest. However, for the player names on the team sheet our season has been far too inconsistent. We have reached the minimum goal - not more, not less.

Generally speaking I would vote for giving him at least another season to continue what he started.
On the other hand with Klopp being available right now...
 
I have enjoyed the recent turn around in performances. I certainly think the best way forward is high tempo possession based football that's more reliant on collective effort rather than just a handful of individuals.

If I were to rate LVG's performance over the course of the season, I would give him a 6/10. This is because there still remains a lot of work to be done.

Yes, we have recaptured a little bit of confidence but we still seem clueless when things do not exactly go according to script (save for that City game). We still need resilience and consistency in the side, at present our players are unfortunately somewhat easily distracted when the opposition gets in their faces or get sucker punched. We also need a bit of variety to our attacking play, frequent crosses to the far post in search of Fellaini are of limited utility and may be even less so the more our opponent get clued up to our repertoire.

I would like to see more triangles, cut backs and square balls in and around the opposition box. For this to happen, we need greater mobility and technique in all our attacking players.

Overall, it may have taken longer than hoped for but the foundations evidently laid in the past 12 weeks provide me with more cause for optimism.
 
Sunny Jim said:
funny that Ferguson achieved more with inferior players.

Fegie>Van Gaal.
Click to expand...

He achieved more with players that he knew and chose, they were individually inferior but they were part of a great plan engineered by Ferguson,
and he was also a great coach, probably a better one than Van gaal.
 
Sunny Jim said:
But also started in a different situation. Iamgine Van Gaal starting at lets say Everton. that would more apt.
Or Feguson taking over Liverool.
Click to expand...
The squad LVG inherited was a squad without a core. We lost Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand and many other players like Carrick, RVP and Rooney are getting older. We have been complaining about the lack of some areas in our team for quite a while. van Gaal will be judged after this summer, now there are no excuses like the World Cup to stop us from signing the players we need. It's in his hands now to sign the players so we can compete at the top. If he fails then, that's another different discussion.
 
Really a lot of what happens next season depends on what we do in the transfer window.
 
I like LVG, like his confidence, like the fact players obviously respect him, he commands respect in general. Language barrier adds a bit of a block to get into him but also safe guards him from awful journalist questions.

I'm not quite so sure about - fact he never comes to sideline I just think this has to make such a big difference to a team to have their manage 10yrds from the pitch shouting etc at them. Also the fact we have played terribly in a lot of games this year. General play has not been great even with relatively quick players in the team there still seems a reluctance to run beyond the striker and take on a player. We've been boring a lot of the time this year, which isn't ideal. Teams aren't scared of us anymore, need to bring that back.

LVG is dutch they like to play technical football, personally I think he is using Fellaini as a makeweight and changed our tactics to use him to get some points, I dont think he sees Fellaini up top knocking balls to the back post for him to win as part of his ''philosophy''. It just doesnt fit in with Dutch football. So next year and pre season will be interesting to see if / how its changed. HOWEVER what we have learnt is that LVG loves his stats and Fellaini stats a) as him as a striker to us winning are alright and b) no. of goals scored when he's played up top. So maybe its LVG who'll have to change. Its just hard to see a team as a force in Europe if Fellaini is the striker and that is their tactic. But Jose employed Milito into a role no-one would have guessed at Inter to win it.

He's achieved what we wanted top 4. So good on him, he's also spent a wedge so that improvement needs to continue.
 
. He's achieved what we wanted top 4. So good on him said:
Given what we experienced last Season and where LvG has us now, I'm more than Happy with how the season is turning out......

there was always the possibility of further decline or non-improvement , and with the injuries we've had this season , I think
LvG has done a really good turn around , and I am sure we'll improve next season.....
Click to expand...
 
Sammyjunn said:
We've scored more than 3 on just 2 occassiond this seasin, I dont think we can score a lot, because simply we dont create a lot.
Click to expand...

Yeah because we lack directness upfront which makes our end product not existent, especially against smaller teams. We showed on a lot occasions that we can score on our day, 4 against City, 3 against Tottenham. Even with our underperforming attackers a lot of players scored instead of and made their contribution. When we improve the team further we will also see a general improvement overall, no doubt about that. And you don't need to score 6 every game, Chelsea proved that, they don't score that much either despite beeing the by far best team in the league, a more settled and better defence will already make us much more stable. In a lot of games we made our life harder than necessary because we concede after brainfarts. When you have to score 2 or 3 every game to get 3 points, it can be difficult of course. That was also the reason why we played the 3-5-2 at the beginning of the season which didn't help our attack, a better defence will help us here to take more risks in our attacking play.
 
MDFC Manager said:
We'll win the league next season, but only if one of our forward players hit good goalscoring form. As it stands though, our goal output isn't enough for a title challenge
Click to expand...

Agreed.
Chelsea won this year - Costa was great.
Man City won last year - Agurro was great.
Man Utd won previously - RVP was great.

In every title winning team, they have 1 striker who comes up with the big goal tally.
At present, I just dont believe that we have any strikers who can score big (ie. 20+ goals per season). Rooney isnt as good as he once was...same with RVP and the less said about Falcao, the better.
If we win the title next year, without a top (in form) striker, I think this'll be the first time in a while that a team has won the title without a big scoring striker.

Given the above, I would invest heavily into buying a top class striker. I do find it strange that with so many names being mentioned, we are not being linked with any top class strikers, especially when you consider that we are crying out for one.
 
Pyroblazer said:
Yeah because we lack directness upfront which makes our end product not existent, especially against smaller teams. We showed on a lot occasions that we can score on our day, 4 against City, 3 against Tottenham. Even with our underperforming attackers a lot of players scored instead of and made their contribution. When we improve the team further we will also see a general improvement overall, no doubt about that. And you don't need to score 6 every game, Chelsea proved that, they don't score that much either despite beeing the by far best team in the league, a more settled and better defence will already make us much more stable. In a lot of games we made our life harder than necessary because we concede after brainfarts. When you have to score 2 or 3 every game to get 3 points, it can be difficult of course. That was also the reason why we played the 3-5-2 at the beginning of the season which didn't help our attack, a better defence will help us here to take more risks in our attacking play.
Click to expand...
Again all true and all, but it's unfair to put it all down at the defence, it's true that we have to play more conservative style of play because of our defenders being shaky at times, but our defence isnt that much worse than Arsenal's if I'm honest, them bringing the ball out is a problem, but we have 2 CB's who dont come up forwards, and a CDM a la Blind/Carrick, Shaw who hasnt been a really attacking LB, how much protection do you need? It has gone way overboard and been exaggerated.

The fact is, since LVG got a twitchy ass, our attack has just looked disorganised. Dont forget the match when we had zero shots (on target) or the recent streak with 0 goals in 3 matches, we dont have any consistent patterns in our attack, and that isnt fully to blame on the playerz, but also the manager, especially in the system he wants to play in, certain patterns need to be injected/made. Other than Fellaini ball and the pass it wide to the overlapping back, I havent seen a pattern in our attack. Barcelona for example, even when they fielded in Tello or Munir el Haddadi, they arent world beaters but yet fit in, because of the patterns they have in their football. And I'm not saying we should Barca like after one season, I'm not unreasonable, but it should have been developed even more. We lack players who can make something happen out of nothing, true, but also the cohesion in our attack, combinations in the attack and our dynamism/patterns, dont make me think new signings will completely change that and will make us a highscoring team again.. In that aspect there's still a lot of work to do for the manager.

I'm very disappointed regarding this, we press better and keep the ball longer, but often our style of play and tactics have just been underwhelming, something I dont associate with LVG. We had a good period recently, and against top clubs we're very solid I admit, but when it comes to smaller teams and team that put a fight in, I just dont think its been good enough.
 
IwatUwat said:
I like LVG, like his confidence, like the fact players obviously respect him, he commands respect in general. Language barrier adds a bit of a block to get into him but also safe guards him from awful journalist questions.

I'm not quite so sure about - fact he never comes to sideline I just think this has to make such a big difference to a team to have their manage 10yrds from the pitch shouting etc at them. Also the fact we have played terribly in a lot of games this year. General play has not been great even with relatively quick players in the team there still seems a reluctance to run beyond the striker and take on a player. We've been boring a lot of the time this year, which isn't ideal. Teams aren't scared of us anymore, need to bring that back.

LVG is dutch they like to play technical football, personally I think he is using Fellaini as a makeweight and changed our tactics to use him to get some points, I dont think he sees Fellaini up top knocking balls to the back post for him to win as part of his ''philosophy''. It just doesnt fit in with Dutch football. So next year and pre season will be interesting to see if / how its changed. HOWEVER what we have learnt is that LVG loves his stats and Fellaini stats a) as him as a striker to us winning are alright and b) no. of goals scored when he's played up top. So maybe its LVG who'll have to change. Its just hard to see a team as a force in Europe if Fellaini is the striker and that is their tactic. But Jose employed Milito into a role no-one would have guessed at Inter to win it.

He's achieved what we wanted top 4. So good on him, he's also spent a wedge so that improvement needs to continue.
Click to expand...

Been discussed to death. I don't believe it makes any difference whatsoever in the long-term. Most players seem to suggest they can't hear a word the manager is saying.
 
Minimalist said:
Been discussed to death. I don't believe it makes any difference whatsoever in the long-term. Most players seem to suggest they can't hear a word the manager is saying.
Click to expand...
Even if it helps short term, it's worth doing it. I think it stimulates some kind of urgency, when the coach is shouting/ giving directions. I see every top manager doing it nowadays, so why not? Does it have a negative effect?
 
Sammyjunn said:
Even if it helps short term, it's worth doing it. I think it stimulates some kind of urgency, when the coach is shouting/ giving directions. I see every top manager doing it nowadays, so why not? Does it have a negative effect?
Click to expand...

You've heard his interviews right? The man isn't fluid in English, at all. If he were to start shouting from the line the players would probably only get confused. Giggs speaks English much better so he normally does it.

I really don't understand why people think this is a problem? He's already occasionally there to give a few instructions, it's not like he hates it. At the worldcup he stood there aswell, it might just be the language and age.
 
NL Max said:
You've heard his interviews right? The man isn't fluid in English, at all. If he were to start shouting from the line the players would probably only get confused. Giggs speaks English much better so he normally does it.

I really don't understand why people think this is a problem? He's already occasionally there to give a few instructions, it's not like he hates it. At the worldcup he stood there aswell, it might just be the language and age.
Click to expand...
Well I think his English is fine most of the times, he's more understandable than our captain. He uses non-existent expressions but if he has to order the players to get to the byline more or wants us to play more opportunistic for example, he can surely bring that across.
 
Sammyjunn said:
Well I think his English is fine most of the times, he's more understandable than our captain. He uses non-existent expressions but if he has to order the players to get to the byline more or wants us to play more opportunistic for example, he can surely bring that across.
Click to expand...

He uses the Dutch language and literally translates it, but lacks the vocabulaire that he has in Dutch. He's clearly struggling as he's a great speaker normally, but uses alot of pauses in English. That's not ideal if you want to give some instructions to a few players during a match, I can understand why Giggs does it.

It will mean just as much since they know it's coming from van Gaal, but they can actually understand it better. Why do you mind that Giggs does it and not van Gaal?
 
NL Max said:
He uses the Dutch language and literally translates it, but lacks the vocabulaire that he has in Dutch. He's clearly struggling as he's a great speaker normally, but uses alot of pauses in English. That's not ideal if you want to give some instructions to a few players during a match, I can understand why Giggs does it.

It will mean just as much since they know it's coming from van Gaal, but they can actually understand it better. Why do you mind that Giggs does it and not van Gaal?
Click to expand...
Well most often by bringing across those messages, you use your hands to talk and often shout, it isnt an interview when the match is going on.

Giggs lacks any presence, I think if I was a player, and the manager is on the sideline, shouting, giving instructions it gives you a sort of urgency, we have seen it under SAF a hundred times, the tempo raises. Fdb does this very often, sometimes the teams.just need a 'kick in the arse', to go just that extra mile.
 
Sammyjunn said:
Well most often by bringing across those messages, you use your hands to talk and often shout, it isnt an interview when the match is going on.

Giggs lacks any presence, I think if I was a player, and the manager is on the sideline, shouting, giving instructions it gives you a sort of urgency, we have seen it under SAF a hundred times, the tempo raises. Fdb does this very often, sometimes the teams.just need a 'kick in the arse', to go just that extra mile.
Click to expand...

If they don't get this urgency by knowing van Gaal is watching and Giggs is shouting at them then that's a problem from the players. If van Gaal doesn't prefer to do it and sends Giggs I doubt any player will think 'well it's not van Gaal, he's 10 meters further away from Giggs so I can keep continueing what I'm doing and ignore Giggs'. I think it's much more important that the message gets across so they can get on with the game.

Frank de Boer shouts alot, but he's not van Gaal. His teams also are much younger and need guidance much more, van Gaal is a manager who prepares a match into extreme details with homework and everything, he trusts his players to perform afterwards. This is also a form of pressure.
 
NL Max said:
If they don't get this urgency by knowing van Gaal is watching and Giggs is shouting at them then that's a problem from the players. If van Gaal doesn't prefer to do it and sends Giggs I doubt any player will think 'well it's not van Gaal, he's 10 meters further away from Giggs so I can keep continueing what I'm doing and ignore Giggs'. I think it's much more important that the message gets across so they can get on with the game.

Frank de Boer shouts alot, but he's not van Gaal. His teams also are much younger and need guidance much more, van Gaal is a manager who prepares a match into extreme details with homework and everything, he trusts his players to perform afterwards. This is also a form of pressure.
Click to expand...

Very sensible, as usual!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.