The hate for Real Madrid

Pre 2003 : Couldn't be arsed about Real Madrid and Barcelona. At least Real Madrid play good football, watever

After 2003 : cnuts the lot of them. Signed Beckham. Becks, you are an idiot as well. I want Barcelona to win

After 2006 : Barca this, Barca that, Barca brilliant, Barca motherfeckers. Err, enough. Can't be arsed either way

After 2008 : Madrid anyday. Still, whatever.
 
That player spending comparison was more to point out that fact that we're not THAT much different than them. I already state they spend far more than us in general, but we don't exactly rely on our youth system, we haven't relied on our youth system in years and years. It only seems to be now (through possible lack of cash etc etc) that we're doing so again.

That was just to show that a lot of our big players were bought, and quite a few weren't that young when bought, and those who were bought young were still bought at pretty hefty prices. Our youth development in recent times just hasn't been very impressive, yet we seem to look down at RM for their lack of it.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
This gives a much better picture of the differences in how the two clubs are run, instead of a random comparison like the one above:

https://www.redcafe.net/f7/real-madrid-top-spenders-over-last-decade-over-800m-signings-305160/

Real's spending the last 10 years: £800m
United's spending: £350m
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Wasn't really about how the clubs are run, nor the overall spending within. More so the types of players each club has, how they got them, and each clubs (lack of) reliance on their youth for their bigger players in the last few years.
 
cina said:
That player spending comparison was more to point out that fact that we're not THAT much different than them. I already state they spend far more than us in general, but we don't exactly rely on our youth system, we haven't relied on our youth system in years and years. It only seems to be now (through possible lack of cash etc etc) that we're doing so again.

That was just to show that a lot of our big players were bought, and quite a few weren't that young when bought, and those who were bought young were still bought at pretty hefty prices. Our youth development in recent times just hasn't been very impressive, yet we seem to look down at RM for their lack of it.
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Of course we "rely" on our youth system, as well as developing young players from other clubs.

Brown
Giggs
Scholes
Welbeck
Fabio
Rafael
O'Shea
Evans
Fletcher
Macheda
Gibson

That is a big chuck of our squad. We need a squad, hence if those players - whom all joined United in their teens - weren't here, we would have had to pay money to have a complete squad. So, not only have these players saved United x millions, but are also contributing to our performances.
 
cina said:
That player spending comparison was more to point out that fact that we're not THAT much different than them. I already state they spend far more than us in general, but we don't exactly rely on our youth system, we haven't relied on our youth system in years and years. It only seems to be now (through possible lack of cash etc etc) that we're doing so again.

That was just to show that a lot of our big players were bought, and quite a few weren't that young when bought, and those who were bought young were still bought at pretty hefty prices. Our youth development in recent times just hasn't been very impressive, yet we seem to look down at RM for their lack of it.
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We're though.

Madrid buy established world class superstars whereas apart from Maybe Rio I don't remember us buying a world class player.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Of course we "rely" on our youth system, as well as developing young players from other clubs.

Brown
Giggs
Scholes
Welbeck
Fabio
Rafael
O'Shea
Evans
Fletcher
Macheda
Gibson

That is a big chuck of our squad. We need a squad, hence if those players - whom all joined United in their teens - weren't here, we would have had to pay money to have a complete squad. So, not only have these players saved United x millions, but are also contributing to our performances.
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Right, but in the last 10 years how many top players have we produced? I see one, Fletcher. That was my original point. And yes, obviously Macheda, Evans etc are potentially top players but right now we cant say that. The future certainly does look brighter in terms of youth though.
 
cina said:
Right, but in the last 10 years how many top players have we produced? I see one, Fletcher. That was my original point. And yes, obviously Macheda, Evans etc are potentially top players but right now we cant say that. The future certainly does look brighter in terms of youth though.
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In addition to those, many have come and gone, and in the process made the club millions of pounds.

Whether we "rely" on the youth set-up or not is irrelevant. That we do BENEFIT from it in much larger degree than Real Madrid, in one way or another, is not debatable.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
In addition to those, many have come and gone, and in the process made the club millions of pounds.

Whether we "rely" on the youth set-up or not is irrelevant. That we do BENEFIT from it in much larger degree than Real Madrid, in one way or another, is not debatable.
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Well it is if you just decide to make it irrelevant, as you always have a tendency to do, but in the context of what's been said over this entire thread, no it's not.
 
cina said:
Well it is if you just decide to make it irrelevant, as you always have a tendency to do, but in the context of what's been said over this entire thread, no it's not.
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We've never relied on the youth set-up, in that case.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
We've never relied on the youth set-up, in that case.
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No, read the thread. The original debate was the last time we've had a TOP QUALITY player produced from our youth system, not about profits we've made from them or what not. The answer to that is of course, Darren Fletcher, but other than him there have been sweet feck all in the last 8 or 9 years. Brown and O Shea could possibly be considered, but that's about it. The price comparison to our players and RM players was to show that although we don't spend as much as them, we've still spent quite a bit of money on the majority of our best players in the last 10 years, and any top youth that has come through, Rooney, Ronaldo, Nani, were all bought for double figures at the time.

Our youth system has only been slightly more helpful in producing top players in the last decade than theirs has.
 
cina said:
No, read the thread. The original debate was the last time we've had a TOP QUALITY player produced from our youth system, not about profits we've made from them or what not. The answer to that is of course, Darren Fletcher, but other than him there have been sweet feck all in the last 8 or 9 years. Brown and O Shea could possibly be considered, but that's about it. The price comparison to our players and RM players was to show that although we don't spend as much as them, we've still spent quite a bit of money on the majority of our best players in the last 10 years, and any top youth that has come through, Rooney, Ronaldo, Nani, were all bought for double figures at the time.

Our youth system has only been slightly more helpful in producing top players in the last decade than theirs has.
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Top players is subjective.

Players is not.

In our current squad we have plenty of players who have come through our youth set-up, Real's squad has not.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Top players is subjective.

Players is not.

In our current squad we have plenty of players who have come through our youth set-up, Real's squad has not.
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We were talking about top players though, not the squad, so really, I'd say what you're saying is what's irrelevant here.
 
cina said:
We were talking about top players though, not the squad, so really, I'd say what you're saying is what's irrelevant here.
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yeah 11 players are really what a club needs in a season.
the fees and wages paid for the rest don't count.

you are kietotheworld right?
 
esmufc10 said:
They're the biggest club in the world, they're the most successful team in CL history, no team has won more CL's than them this decade. Granted they've had a torrid few years in the CL, but they're still one of the best teams. They really ought to have beaten Lyon last season.
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I've not read the whole thread, stopped at this post...Biggest myth ever!
 
Real Madrid have a big youth system, bigger than English clubs because that's how youth coaching operates in Spain. They've produced 15 players who made their debuts for Spain in the last decade - 15 - compare that to United, or any English club (that's not a rhetorical question, I really would like to know).

The failure is in the link from youth team to first team - only two of those players made their debuts while they were with Madrid. Part of it is the bizarre buying and wages policy - buying players like Drenthe for squad berths, paying low wages to their home produced squad players. Madrid know it - in the past they talked about a team of Zidanes and Patos, but they'd need management stability to do anything about it.

I'd suggest a lot of the "hate", or maybe more accurately a mix of derision and disbelief comes from the manager issue. No team that changes managers as often as them deserves a team or a successful youth policy - that they almost manage to buy one is irritating. Last week Mourinho said to a press conference, "If you give me 4 years, I'll give you a great team." They looked at him like he was taking the piss.

This week he told them, "I came here with 17 trophies and still they doubt me - if you came with none, they'd kill you." Incidentally he also said that among managers, SAF's his best friend and that Portuguese, Spanish, Italian fans seem to enjoy the days before/after the games more than they do the games. :D
 
Stretch said:
I've not read the whole thread, stopped at this post...Biggest myth ever!
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Why is this a myth?

Most successful club in their country, and that too being a major footballing power by a massive 11 title margin, 31-20.

Most successful team in Europe, most number of appearances in finals(12), and winner(9).

Stream of the biggest stars to grace the game have played for them over the years, and of course commercially they make more money than you can count(I'm not talking about profits), also in terms of global recognition, they have a HUGE presence globally.

How many young international stars have come out and said it is their dream to play for United?

If they are not the biggest, who is?

* I love United, and don't have a '2nd team' team anywhere, and would prefer if Liverpool/Barca/Real ceased to exist this very moment, but that doesn't take away from the reality they are a bigger club(no matter how big/small the margin may be), anything else is denial.
 
After reading through a bit of this thread, i'm with Pogue on this one. They're ridiculously arrogant and try to bully teams into buying their players. Thats enough for me (and of course everything else that has been said).

If you genuinely dont understand the hate for Real Madrid, then you're a bit of a plonker. Theres nothing difficult to understand at all.
 
jojojo said:
Real Madrid have a big youth system, bigger than English clubs because that's how youth coaching operates in Spain. They've produced 15 players who made their debuts for Spain in the last decade - 15 - compare that to United, or any English club (that's not a rhetorical question, I really would like to know).
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Depends how you define "produced"...We've produced a number of players who've never played for us. Considering the top talent at youth level usually gets scouted by the big clubs (and in Spain the number of "big" clubs is 2) means it's no surprise or much of an achievement that so many younsters have been through their Youth Academy...The fact that so few of them have made it anywhere near their first team is precisely the point..

The failure is in the link from youth team to first team - only two of those players made their debuts while they were with Madrid. Part of it is the bizarre buying and wages policy - buying players like Drenthe for squad berths, paying low wages to their home produced squad players. Madrid know it - in the past they talked about a team of Zidanes and Patos, but they'd need management stability to do anything about it.
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it's Pavon, but yeah, it is that. Partly. But not completely though. It's bigger and more endemic than that.


I'd suggest a lot of the "hate", or maybe more accurately a mix of derision and disbelief comes from the manager issue. No team that changes managers as often as them deserves a team or a successful youth policy - that they almost manage to buy one is irritating. Last week Mourinho said to a press conference, "If you give me 4 years, I'll give you a great team." They looked at him like he was taking the piss.
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I couldn't give a shit about how many managers they have, I do give a shit that they're so amazingly arrogant as an institution on the back of an ethos that hasn't seen them earn their success, merely buy it, for a good decade or so. It's the assumption they should be respected now, because of the history they have. This policy of "We are the biggest club, respect us, give us your players bitches!" that makes people hate them... Yes of course United and clubs of our ilk have done similar things but no where near as flagrantly..When have any of our directors come directly out and unsettled players? used our connections in the media or govt to unsettle players? ...We (and other clubs like us) are far more respectful of not just other clubs but of other big clubs..Something Madrid aren't, because they act as thought they're above it all.

They act like elvis said, there's Madrid, then everyone eles...But they haven't earned this. They've bought it. Their current regime is a joke, has been for a while. When was the last time they even made a player? Regardless of Youth produce or not. Like a Cantona or henry or even Ronaldo who made their name AT Madrid even if they were just bought. What respect are they due on this front? They do nothing but look for quick success and then act like they deserve respect beyond all others....They're a shambles, a joke and their attitude is wrong on every level. With regards to themselves, to other clubs, to players, to fans, to everything...

That's where the hate comes from....And also because those of us over 18 think this whole "we're the biggest" attitude is a new era media blitz.

BTV_is_neutral said:
How many young international stars have come out and said it is their dream to play for United?
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Loads

Ronaldinho: my dream of joining Manchester United - News & Comment, Football - The Independent - From 2003
Tottenham's Roman Pavlyuchenko 'dreams' of playing for Manchester United - Telegraph
Sneijder reveals United dream - Soccerway
Angel di Maria loves Manchester United
Flying winger still retains Manchester United dream 03 June 2010 - 14:43 | Sport.co.uk
Usain Bolt Dreams of Playing Soccer for Manchester United » NetDugout Indiana
Mezut Ozil: It would be a dream to play for Manchester Unite - IMScouting

All just on the first two pages of a google search, and that's just the good players....Tabloid bollocks a lot of it most likely, but no more so than Madrid's "dream" talk. You seem to be forgetting how big we are.

Don't don't don't believe the hype....


What I think is, this circus has only built up around the last 15 or so years, when Perez and his ilk saw what could be achieved by marketing and spin....I grew up thinking Barca or Milan were the big world teams. Madrid where rather tame when I was a kid in the late 80s/early 90s...But in the last 15+ years and the advent of the PL and CL and re-branding and what not, they've seen their 5 Franco-era CL trophies as representing "great brand value!"..and lead a media assault claiming they're the "biggest club in the world" and built up this brand which has become a monster. I'm fairly sure it's something they never claimed before the end of the century, cos they were relatively anonymous on the World and European stage between the 60s and late 90s an a fair few people who are my age don't buy into it..

however the Elvises of this world, and his ilk of under 18s whose only memory is of this media blitz buy into it wholesale it seems...Misson accomplished!


Of course they're a huge club. One of the biggest. But this "Biggest club in the world by far" nonsense has been pushed to the fore by this monstrous Perez era juggernaut in recent years. I don't consider any club "the biggest" and if I had to rank most successful then yes it'd be them. But their success is quite a lot less impressive than many other sides - notably Milan - when it's put into time and context (Monarchy & Govt sanction 31 times winners of league with only 9 winners in it's history...4 of their CLs coming in the competitions inception before English teams even competed) ....Hence why this notion of them as the flag bearers is so absurd. Milan's success is more impressive, Barca and us have more followers. Many clubs have produced more talent through their first team (Barca/Ajax/probably us) and crafted more renowned teams...So you tell me, why are they so above it all apparently?
 
Mockney said:
I couldn't give a shit about how many managers they have, I do give a shit that they're so amazingly arrogant as an institution on the back of an ethos that hasn't seen them earn their success, merely buy it, for a good decade or so. It's the assumption they should be respected now, because of the history they have. This policy of "We are the biggest club, respect us, give us your players bitches!" that makes people hate them... Yes of course United and our ilk do it to other clubs but not as flagrantly, and not to other big clubs in the way Madrid do. They act like they're above everyone, like (as elvis said) there's Madrid, then everyone eles...But they haven't earned this. They've bought it. Their current regime is a joke, has been for a while, they haven't made any players regardless of Youth produce or not (how many Cantona's or Henry's have they had of late? Players who came and made their name AT Madrid?) they do nothing but look for quick success and then act like they deserve respect beyond all others....They're a shambles, a joke and their attitude is wrong on every level. With regards to themselves, to other clubs, to players, to fans, to everything...
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They don't tell clubs to give them their players though, do they? For the one going on about myths you're making some up yourself. How many top players have they got on the cheap? More often that not they will overpay for a player. They got Becks for £25m (Doesn't seem a lot nowadays but in 2003 it was still a very good price), Ronaldo for £80m, Kaka £56m, Di Maria £24m, Ozil £16m, Pepe £25m, Zidane £46m, Figo £35m, Ronaldo £35m. It's not like they're getting the top players for a cut price by acting arrogant. They're simply saying, "We like that player, we want that player, we're going to get that player." And instead of just doing it to smaller clubs who are bullied into selling (That's what we do) they'll do it to the biggest clubs in the world. They bought Zidane from Juventus, Figo from Barcelona (Imagine us bidding for Torres with a world record bid to our biggest rivals), Ronaldo from Inter, Ronaldo from us, Kaka from Milan. I don't really see the arrogance in identifying a top player, and then bidding for him. The way they went about signing Ronaldo was out of order, Calderon was in the press every other week speaking about it, they did act arrogant in that case. But then did that really sway Ronaldo into wanting to join? He'd always talked of a dream to play in Spain with either Barca or Madrid.

What I think is, this circus has only built up around the last 15 or so years, when Perez and his ilk saw what could be achieved by marketing and spin....I grew up thinking Barca or Milan were the big world teams. Madrid where rather tame when I was a kid in the late 80s/early 90s...But in the last 15+ years and the advent of the PL and CL and re-branding and what now, they've seen their 5 Franco-era CL trophies as representing "great brand value!"..and lead a media assault claiming they're the "biggest club in the world" and built up this brand which has become a monster. I'm fairly sure it's something they never claimed before the end of the century, cos they were relatively anonymous on the World and European stage between the 60s and late 90s an a fair few people who are my age don't buy into it..
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So who is the biggest club in the world? Even if we ignore their 5 Franco-Era CL trophies, in the last 15 years they still have more European trophies than anybody else. They have 3, we have 2, Barca have 2, Milan have 2, Liverpool have one, Juventus have 1. Again, nobody comes close. We should have made it 3 and joined them but we didn't.

But since the CL was rebranded in 1992, they've been the most successful team in it, so I don't really know what point you're trying to make.

And whilst I wasn't alive I'm fairly sure Real Madrid weren't anonymous on the World and European Stage. I remember (Well I don't remember, but it happened) a wiley old Scot leading Aberdeen to victory over them and it being made a huge deal out of. Aberdeen have beaten Real fecking Madrid! Doesn't matter the team they had at the time, this was Madrid.
 
esmufc10 said:
They don't tell clubs to give them their players though, do they? For the one going on about myths you're making some up yourself. How many top players have they got on the cheap? More often that not they will overpay for a player. They got Becks for £25m (Doesn't seem a lot nowadays but in 2003 it was still a very good price), Ronaldo for £80m, Kaka £56m, Di Maria £24m, Ozil £16m, Pepe £25m, Zidane £46m, Figo £35m, Ronaldo £35m. It's not like they're getting the top players for a cut price by acting arrogant. They're simply saying, "We like that player, we want that player, we're going to get that player." And instead of just doing it to smaller clubs who are bullied into selling (That's what we do) they'll do it to the biggest clubs in the world. They bought Zidane from Juventus, Figo from Barcelona (Imagine us bidding for Torres with a world record bid to our biggest rivals), Ronaldo from Inter, Ronaldo from us, Kaka from Milan. I don't really see the arrogance in identifying a top player, and then bidding for him. The way they went about signing Ronaldo was out of order, Calderon was in the press every other week speaking about it, they did act arrogant in that case. But then did that really sway Ronaldo into wanting to join? He'd always talked of a dream to play in Spain with either Barca or Madrid.
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yeah no one was forced to sell a player in the post-Franco era. However, they were involved in major financial doping which allowed them to buy all of those players (which again takes away from the legitimacy of all their claims)
 
esmufc10 said:
OK, who's the biggest club in the world and why?
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If by biggest club you mean most popular, it is Manchester United and by a long shot too. I can just take Africa as an example. United fans outnumber any other clubs by at least 3 to 1. Add to that the Premier League is the most popular league in the world and screened in more countries than La Liga. If its revenue then I would still put United on top. Madrid get generous tax cuts from their government and own their own TV rights deal which is the only reason they compete with United in terms of income. Yes, they are the most successful team in Europe but that's about where it ends. The only continent outside of Europe where Madrid are bigger than United would be South America I would argue. But that's probably more down to Spanish and Portuguese roots of those nations and the fact that a lot of their footballers play(ed) in La Liga.
 
esmufc10 said:
They don't tell clubs to give them their players though, do they?
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Yes they do. All but...

For the one going on about myths you're making some up yourself. How many top players have they got on the cheap? More often that not they will overpay for a player. They got Becks for £25m (Doesn't seem a lot nowadays but in 2003 it was still a very good price), Ronaldo for £80m, Kaka £56m, Di Maria £24m, Ozil £16m, Pepe £25m, Zidane £46m, Figo £35m, Ronaldo £35m. It's not like they're getting the top players for a cut price by acting arrogant. They're simply saying, "We like that player, we want that player, we're going to get that player." And instead of just doing it to smaller clubs who are bullied into selling (That's what we do) they'll do it to the biggest clubs in the world.
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That's exactly part of their new ethos. The "we'll get them from the big clubs because we're bigger"...They never did that before the Perez era assault on the senses....And yes they do it for huge sums of money. Because big clubs aren't going to let go of their players. But a big sum gets the players, and getting the players makes them look bigger. It's almost tantamount to City trying to buy success, except Madrid do actually have a History on their side. But it's still all the policy. It's like asking the players in their first press conference "What's it like to sign for the biggest club in the world?" - "Oh, yea great" and then you have a quote that says they're the biggest club in the world. Marketing. I did it for 2 years.

I love how you're trying to paint Madrid as the righteous big bully bullying the little bullies btw...


So who is the biggest club in the world? Even if we ignore their 5 Franco-Era CL trophies, in the last 15 years they still have more European trophies than anybody else.
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Why not choose 25 years. Then Milan have more. Ta Da! I'm not proposing a "biggest club"...You are. I don't think there is, nor needs to be one. You do. Yet in all criteria for "biggest" other than CL success, Madrid are second best, if that.

They have 3, we have 2, Barca have 2, Milan have 2, Liverpool have one, Juventus have 1. Again, nobody comes close. We should have made it 3 and joined them but we didn't.
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I didn't say we were. Again, you are.

And whilst I wasn't alive I'm fairly sure Real Madrid weren't anonymous on the World and European Stage. I remember (Well I don't remember, but it happened) a wiley old Scot leading Aberdeen to victory over them and it being made a huge deal out of. Aberdeen have beaten Real fecking Madrid! Doesn't matter the team they had at the time, this was Madrid.
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They weren't anonymous no...But they weren't viewed as 'the biggest club in the world".....They were part of a stable of great clubs, just as they, and we are now. But when they started winning the CL again, they started bludgeoning people over the head with it....As I said, Milan's success is more impressive. Barca and us have more followers. Many clubs have produced more talent through their first team (Barca/Ajax/probably us) and crafted more renowned teams...So you tell me, why are they so above it all apparently? You're the one who seems to need this heirarchy so you tell me? Other than CL success (most of which was early inception Franco era pre-English clubs), and League success (for a government and monarchy sanctioned team in a league only 9 teams have ever won and 2 teams have won 70% of the time) what is it that makes them so amazing?
 
sajeev said:
yeah 11 players are really what a club needs in a season.
the fees and wages paid for the rest don't count.

you are kietotheworld right?
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Yeah, because I said that throughout the thread didn't I? I mean if you look at my posts in the thread you'll definitely be able to quote me saying that, right?

It's a fecking debate on a certain aspect of each team, not the squad, not the wages, they have nothing to do with this. We were talking about our youth system in comparison to theirs in terms of producing TOP players, not squad players, that's an entirely different debate.
 
Mockney said:
That's exactly part of their new ethos. The "we'll get them from the big clubs because we're bigger"...They never did that before the Perez era assault on the senses....And yes they do it for huge sums of money. Because big clubs aren't going to let go of their players. But a big sum gets the players, and getting the players proves their bigger. But it doesn't. It's all the policy. it's like asking the players in their first press conference "What's it like to sign for the biggest club in the world?" - "Oh, yea great" and then you have a quote. So and so says we're the biggest club in the world.
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I doubt Perez is that bothered about random people calling his club the biggest in the world, he covets that 10th European trophy and yes he is trying to buy it, but then you can't be successful, especially in Europe, without significant investment in the team.

And it's their policy, is our policy of getting players whilst they're young and blending them with more experienced players any better? Why is it better? It's worked for Madrid in the past and I'm sure it will work again.

You have to sort of admire the fact (admire may be the wrong word to use) that they're that assured of themselves as one of the biggest in the world that they can go to all these other top clubs and offer x amount for the best player.

Would you be disgusted if we said to Barcelona, "We like the look of that boy Messi, how much?" There's nothing wrong with signing top players. Top players are going to cost a lot of money. Top players are going to already be paying for the top clubs. But apparently offering their clubs very good prices for them is arrogant, I'm not sure how that works.

Why not chose 25 years. Then Milan have more. I'm not proposing a "biggest club"...You are. I don't think there is, nor needs to be one. You do.
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In another thread I did but in this one I was simply asking why people hate Madrid. Pogue's told me he does because all they're fans are nazi's.

They weren't anonymous no...But they weren't viewed as 'the biggest club in the world".....They were part of a stable of great clubs, just as they, and we are now. But when they started winning the CL again, they started bludgeoning people over the head with it....As I said, Milan's success is more impressive. Barca and us have more followers. Many clubs have produced more talent through their first team (Barca/Ajax/probably us) and crafted more renowned teams...So you tell me, why are they so above it all apparently? You're the one who seems to need this heirarchy
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I don't need any hierachy. You're problem seems to be with marketing. Perez has marketed them so much and whatnot that people falsely believe them to be bigger than they actually are. The same can be said of us. We pale in comparison to the likes of Milan, Bayern, Ajax and Madrid in Europe and we also pale in comparison to them when it comes to league titles. So what makes us bigger? That we have a lot of fans in the Far East because we whore ourselves out there?

The Taurean said:
It's still arrogant behaviour.
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I don't get why it's arrogant though? Was our pursuit of Carrick arrogant? Or Berbatov? What if Calderon had picked up Ronaldo from an airport when we'd accepted a bid from Barcelona? How would you view that sort of behaviour?
 
cina said:
Yeah, because I said that throughout the thread didn't I? I mean if you look at my posts in the thread you'll definitely be able to quote me saying that, right?

It's a fecking debate on a certain aspect of each team, not the squad, not the wages, they have nothing to do with this. We were talking about our youth system in comparison to theirs in terms of producing TOP players, not squad players, that's an entirely different debate.
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yeah yours was a subjective comparison, which doesn't really convey anything. so you calling others' points irrelevant needed to pointed out.

you are just choosing your facts to suit your argument, instead of the complete set
 
esmufc10 said:
I doubt Perez is that bothered about random people calling his club the biggest in the world, he covets that 10th European trophy and yes he is trying to buy it, but then you can't be successful, especially in Europe, without significant investment in the team.

And it's their policy, is our policy of getting players whilst they're young and blending them with more experienced players any better? Why is it better? It's worked for Madrid in the past and I'm sure it will work again.

You have to sort of admire the fact (admire may be the wrong word to use) that they're that assured of themselves as one of the biggest in the world that they can go to all these other top clubs and offer x amount for the best player.
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why are you being an apologist for them here anyways?
there are quite a few things wrong with the history of Real, but as for the arguments you are making, you should keep in mind that they are not really spending their money. They basically stole (cheated) to get their success.
 
sajeev said:
yeah yours was a subjective comparison, which doesn't really convey anything. so you calling others' points irrelevant needed to pointed out.

you are just choosing your facts to suit your argument, instead of the complete set
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How am I doing that exactly? What relevance does the squad or wages have to do with what we were discussing earlier in the thread? Please enlighten me.
 
sajeev said:
why are you being an apologist for them here anyways?
there are quite a few things wrong with the history of Real, but as for the arguments you are making, you should keep in mind that they are not really spending their money. They basically stole (cheated) to get their success.
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I'm not being an apologist, I'm just trying to find out why so many people hate them. Pogue tells me all they're fans are Nazi's, which is fair enough to be honest. Mockney doesn't like it that that evil man Perez has deviously tricked the entire world into believing his club are bigger than they actually are. The Taurean doesn't like them because they act arrogant by buying the best players in the world for large fees.

I'm not too clued up on the finances of Madrid, so I won't comment.
 
Real Madrid are without a shadow of a doubt, the biggest club in the world. You can pick apart their achievements all you want, the fact is that they dwarf the rest of Europe in European Cup wins, they dwarf the rest of Spain in La Liga titles, they are the most successful club in the WCC, they have had some of the all time greats grace the Bernabeu in Di Stefano, Kopa, Zidane, Puskas, Gento, Butregueno, Ronaldo, and Raul, wearing the white shirt is the pinnacle of virtually every player's career, they have the biggest, most iconic stadium in club football, they churn out ridiculously insane profits annually, they are just the biggest. Simple as that.

The problem is that they know all this and are not afraid to tell anyone who'll listen, including player's and agent's without the other club's permission.
 
Mockney said:
it's Pavon, but yeah, it is that. Partly. But not completely though. It's bigger and more endemic than that.
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That's what happens when I write posts while hungry.
Pato, yum.


They act like elvis said, there's Madrid, then everyone eles...But they haven't earned this. They've bought it. Their current regime is a joke, has been for a while. When was the last time they even made a player?
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That would be Casillas and if you're bringing Cantona into the equation that would also be Raul and Guti.


What I think is, this circus has only built up around the last 15 or so years, when Perez and his ilk saw what could be achieved by marketing and spin....I grew up thinking Barca or Milan were the big world teams. Madrid where rather tame when I was a kid in the late 80s/early 90s...But in the last 15+ years and the advent of the PL and CL and re-branding and what not, they've seen their 5 Franco-era CL trophies as representing "great brand value!"..and lead a media assault claiming they're the "biggest club in the world" and built up this brand which has become a monster. I'm fairly sure it's something they never claimed before the end of the century, cos they were relatively anonymous on the World and European stage between the 60s and late 90s an a fair few people who are my age don't buy into it..
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Whereas I grew up in the 60s/70s thinking that Real Madrid and Milan were the biggest draws you could get and Madrid the most glamorous team (though of course back then, Dynamo Kiev sounded exotic)

The 70s/early 80s were the Bayern/Ajax/England (but not us) years. Since Spain started to score again in Europe in the 90s Barcelona have won 3 (their only three) and so have Madrid (to add to their older 6)

Real Madrid have more than just marketing on their side. Like us, they've a long history, a lot of success and a lot of fans.
 
esmufc10 said:
I'm not being an apologist, I'm just trying to find out why so many people hate them. Pogue tells me all they're fans are Nazi's, which is fair enough to be honest. Mockney doesn't like it that that evil man Perez has deviously tricked the entire world into believing his club are bigger than they actually are. The Taurean doesn't like them because they act arrogant by buying the best players in the world for large fees.

I'm not too clued up on the finances of Madrid, so I won't comment.
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ok, in my opinion the problem is not just what they do, but the way they go about doing it

and it has always been the case that there is envy/hatred for the successful and this intensifies when there is even a small case to be made that the success is not legitimate
 
WireRed said:
Real Madrid are without a shadow of a doubt, the biggest club in the world. You can pick apart their achievements all you want, the fact is that they dwarf the rest of Europe in European Cup wins, they dwarf the rest of Spain in La Liga titles, they are the most successful club in the WCC, they have had some of the all time greats grace the Bernabeu in Di Stefano, Kopa, Zidane, Puskas, Gento, Butregueno, Ronaldo, and Raul, wearing the white shirt is the pinnacle of virtually every player's career, they have the biggest, most iconic stadium in club football, they churn out ridiculously insane profits annually, they are just the biggest. Simple as that.

The problem is that they know all this and are not afraid to tell anyone who'll listen, including player's and agent's without the other club's permission.
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Well in that case, point proven! ;)
 
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