The killing of Ahmaud Arbery (23rd February 2020)

Damien said:
The first DA letter says that the autopsy showed one of the shots was through Ahmaud's palm and that the video supports that shot happened right at the beginning of the tussle.

Adrenaline would have been up then and he'd already be losing blood before the bulk of the confrontation happened. Not sure where you got four men with weapons from. There are three from what I can see.
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I assumed there was 2 men in the car with the dash cam but could be mistaken, anyway 3/4 isn't the important part.

The fact is the dad in the back of the truck decided to open fire because he "didn't stop running" when asked, which is just a ridiculous decision path. If he'd had a knife or a weapon on clear view then I could understand it more, but the poor bugger was just casually jogging along and tried to avert them. Crazy it's taken this long to even get mentioned in the media.
 
Wibble said:
Are you nuts? He hunted an unarmed black man down for daring to jog past his house armed with a shotgun. Any threat to his person was his choice and fault. You can't hunt a random person down, threaten them with a shotgun, kill them when they try to defend themselves and then claim self defense.
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Exactly this :lol:

And lets not forget the dad standing in the truck with a shotgun fired at him first as he ran around the truck ffs :lol: self defence my ass.
 
Damn.
Poor chap, he didn't stand a chance at all.
Surrounded by people (and a car) with guns.
Run and he would have been shot. Fight and he suffers the same fate. Yet, somehow, he is the aggressor?
Oh come on!
 
Adam-Utd said:
What absolute rubbish.

4 men with weapons, 1 group waiting and the other following the alone UNARMED jogger. They clearly fire first before any physical confrontation occurs also.

We aren't close enough to hear their conversation, but I suspect it started along the lines of " you're dead n*****" hence why he got spooked.

The guy in the back of the truck actually tries to shoot him as he runs around the truck and misses, so that's probably the time he thought I better get close to one of his friends so they won't shoot again. It happens so fast the poor guy probably can't think straight anyway.
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As above, 3 men and it appears that the first shot was at the start of the tussle. Forgetting about how we got to that point, if somebody is charging at you trying to take your shotgun a shot probably gets fired in the panic. It's certainly not clear, we can't see exactly what has happened behind the truck immediately before the shot and that's the problem.

All reports I've seen state the first shot was by the son. The first shot by the dad on the truck looks to be midway through the tussle and is notably delayed. Perhaps he was thinking oh feck the jogger has the upperhand here I need to protect my son (we don't know as we can't see, but possible with the first shot only going through the palm).

I don't see any evidence of the attempted shot before the altercation. If that is true then it would completely change things.

Unfortunately, your suspicions aren't enough to convict someone of murder.

I won't argue it anymore as it's bad taste and probably the wrong forum for it. But hopefully we can agree that the real problem here is guns (and racism). Without the guns this doesn't happen, and if they say stabbed him instead, they wouldn't get away with it.
 
Schneiderman said:
As above, 3 men and it appears that the first shot was at the start of the tussle. Forgetting about how we got to that point, if somebody is charging at you trying to take your shotgun a shot probably gets fired in the panic. It's certainly not clear, we can't see exactly what has happened behind the truck immediately before the shot and that's the problem.

All reports I've seen state the first shot was by the son. The first shot by the dad on the truck looks to be midway through the tussle and is notably delayed. Perhaps he was thinking oh feck the jogger has the upperhand here I need to protect my son (we don't know as we can't see, but possible with the first shot only going through the palm).

I don't see any evidence of the attempted shot before the altercation. If that is true then it would completely change things.

Unfortunately, your suspicions aren't enough to convict someone of murder.

I won't argue it anymore as it's bad taste and probably the wrong forum for it. But hopefully we can agree that the real problem here is guns (and racism). Without the guns this doesn't happen, and if they say stabbed him instead, they wouldn't get away with it.
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Incorrect. The man standing in the back of the truck shoots at him as he goes around the truck to the right.

There is a man (his son) standing in the middle of the road, (left side of the truck), he runs around the right. He hears the shot go off and clearly then starts fighting for his life.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Incorrect. The man standing in the back of the truck shoots at him as he goes around the truck to the right.
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https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...52fa09cdc974b970b79/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

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It was from the gun the person on the left side of the truck was holding, right as Ahmaud reached the front of the truck. Camera angle and quality isn't the best but the dad seemed to be bending down to get a gun halfway through the tussle.
 
Look at 0:31 to 0:35 of this video - the first shot is fired as soon as Arbery reaches the front of the truck. Simultaneously to the shot being fired, we see him in a physical altercation with the shooter. @Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær will probably be thinking this as well, but that part of the video leads me to conclude only one thing... as Arbery rounded the truck, which was obscuring his view of the man with the shotgun, he turned to see the man pointing the gun at him, causing his fight or flight to kick in and for him to grab at the barrel of the gun just as the gun is fired - this could be where his hand wound comes from.



I put that part in bold because of all the talk in this thread about what is or isn't "aggression" and what you can and cannot do in the United States, specifically Georgia since each state deals with this differently, with regards to the legality of shooting someone.

The legal aspect:
Statute
Justifiable Use of Force
  • You can use force when you reasonably believe that the force is necessary in order to protect yourself or a third party against another person's imminent use of unlawful force.
  • The scope of the force that you can use depends on whether you reasonably believe that the type of force is necessary to defend yourself or a third party.
  • You may use deadly force only if you reasonably believe that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to you, or to another, or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
When the Use of Deadly Force is Not Justified
  • If you're the initial aggressor
  • You're committing, attempting to commit, or leaving after you have committed/attempted a felony


1) going into your habitation, arming yourself, getting into a car, chasing a person, cornering them, and then leveling a gun at them is being an aggressor and deadly force is not justified
2) having 3 armed men vs. 1 unarmed man does not meet the scope of force necessary requirement to justify a shooting
3) having 3 armed men vs. 1 unarmed man does not lead a 'reasonable person' (term used in these kinds of things) to conclude that you should fear for your life if you are one of the 3 armed men
 
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My mother called me last night crying after she saw the video.
 
I think analyzing the tussle itself sort of skips over the fact that people decide to grab their shotgun and go in pursuit of someone because he had a certain skin color.

Of course no one can say for certain what happened, but no charges being filed at all? No prolonged investigation of what happened? It's utterly insane. These people should stand trial. And whatever happened, I think some sort of punishment is deserved even for pursuing someone with a lethal weapon because of his skin color.

I know I'm not an American and it's a different culture and you shouldn't just etc, but feck me, my culture is better than that.
 
KirkDuyt said:
I think analyzing the tussle itself sort of skips over the fact that people decide to grab their shotgun and go in pursuit of someone because he had a certain skin color.
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I agree. If someone robbed me or was acting suspiciously around a property my first thoughts wouldn't be to go after them. They wouldn't be to pick up any guns that I had. They wouldn't be to identify a target that had the same skin colour as someone else and not even try to identify them but immediately attack them.

There are so many things wrong with this. I don't understand at all how someone can think instead of notifying the police and letting them deal with the situation they decide to go and do something themselves. The only explanation is an underlying intent for other reasons such as racism that is clearly shown in this scenario.

I'm quite shocked that there are people trying to defend this. If you actively go out to hunt someone and are holding a firearm and get surprised when they shit themselves and try to fight back, you're an absolute moron. This man was minding his own business, did nothing wrong and was hunted down by racists who murdered him with ease. No second thoughts, just straight murder.

If I'm surrounded by 2-3 people with guns I wouldn't have a clue what to do. If I run then I'm dead. If I try to fight back, I'm probably dead too.

If the murderers had any intention of confronting the man and speaking with him they'd have just left the police to do their job, they wouldn't have hunted him down. The only reason that someone would do that is to do something like this.
 
Shocked that a racially motivated cold blooded murder in broad daylight is being defended
 
KirkDuyt said:
I know I'm not an American and it's a different culture and you shouldn't just etc, but feck me, my culture is better than that.
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It's okay, it's true. Many (maybe most) southerners have actively fought against improving our culture for centuries.
 
Carolina Red said:
Look at 0:31 to 0:35 of this video - the first shot is fired as soon as Arbery reaches the front of the truck. Simultaneously to the shot being fired, we see him in a physical altercation with the shooter. @Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær will probably be thinking this as well, but that part of the video leads me to conclude only one thing... as Arbery rounded the truck, which was obscuring his view of the man with the shotgun, he turned to see the man pointing the gun at him, causing his fight or flight to kick in and for him to grab at the barrel of the gun just as the gun is fired - this could be where his hand wound comes from.



I put that part in bold because of all the talk in this thread about what is or isn't "aggression" and what you can and cannot do in the United States, specifically Georgia since each state deals with this differently, with regards to the legality of shooting someone.

The legal aspect:
Statute
Justifiable Use of Force
  • You can use force when you reasonably believe that the force is necessary in order to protect yourself or a third party against another person's imminent use of unlawful force.
  • The scope of the force that you can use depends on whether you reasonably believe that the type of force is necessary to defend yourself or a third party.
  • You may use deadly force only if you reasonably believe that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to you, or to another, or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
When the Use of Deadly Force is Not Justified
  • If you're the initial aggressor
  • You're committing, attempting to commit, or leaving after you have committed/attempted a felony


1) going into your habitation, arming yourself, getting into a car, chasing a person, cornering them, and then leveling a gun at them is being an aggressor and deadly force is not justified
2) having 3 armed men vs. 1 unarmed man does not meet the scope of force necessary requirement to justify a shooting
3) having 3 armed men vs. 1 unarmed man does not lead a 'reasonable person' (term used in these kinds of things) to conclude that you should fear for your life if you are one of the 3 armed men
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Yep. Fully agree. This was an ambush over a suspected burglary.
 
do.ob said:
It seems very "unintuitive" that you can pull a gun on a random stranger that has not done anything of aggressive nature and then claim self defense when they react. It all seems so surreal from an European point of view.
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That is my confusion as well. So if I want to kill someone I take my legal gun out and stop them from walking or running. If they react I can shoot them and it will be considered self defence.
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
That is my confusion as well. So if I want to kill someone I take my legal gun out and stop them from walking or running. If they react I can shoot them and it will be considered self defence.
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Works only if you are white!
 
Please understand that all white Americans, even southerners, aren't rednecks that go get shotguns to stop a jogger.

I feel that if I'm ever able to leave the country again, I'm going to need a set of pre-recorded disclaimers to play when I meet people.
 
Carolina Red said:
Please understand that all white Americans, even southerners, aren't rednecks that go get shotguns to stop a jogger.

I feel that if I'm ever able to leave the country again, I'm going to need a set of pre-recorded disclaimers to play when I meet people.
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Yeah you better, here in liberal Holland we'll run you over with a bierfiets otherwise.
 
Carolina Red said:
Please understand that all white Americans, even southerners, aren't rednecks that go get shotguns to stop a jogger.

I feel that if I'm ever able to leave the country again, I'm going to need a set of pre-recorded disclaimers to play when I meet people.
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I’m sure I’ve mentioned this to you before but this was how it seemed the majority of people felt about Trump when my wife and I visited not long after the election.

So many people felt the need to tell us they didn’t vote for him, just entirely out of nowhere.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Yeah you better, here in liberal Holland we'll run you over with a bierfiets otherwise.
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Ha! We've got those too.
Rado_N said:
I’m sure I’ve mentioned this to you before but this was how it seemed the majority of people felt about Trump when my wife and I visited not long after the election.

So many people felt the need to tell us they didn’t vote for him, just entirely out of nowhere.
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Yeah, those of us who realize that there's a whole world outside the US borders really do worry that we're going to be lumped in with the rest of them.
 
Gregory & Travis McMichael arrested for murder
Father, son arrested and charged in killing of Ahmaud Arbery, GBI says

 
During a news conference Thursday afternoon, Gov. Brian Kemp had strong words about the killing of Ahmaud Arbery.

“Earlier this week, I watched a video depicting Mr. Arbery’s last moments alive. It is absolutely horrific, and Georgians deserve answers,” Kemp said. “I have confidence in Vic Reynolds and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. I know they will work around the clock to thoroughly and independently investigate Mr. Arbery’s death to find the truth. In these moments, please pray for his loved ones, the local community, and our state."

Following the GBI’s announcement of the arrests, Georgia Attorney General Chris Carr released a statement, saying, in part: “This tragedy cannot be undone, but this is the first step in what I am confident will be a swift road to justice.”

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/ah...EzOF9H3dXcptTnqqfBR94qa8MTgBKBC5gyeeYevfoYlIQ
 
Well that’s progress at least. I’d like to learn more about why the second DA that recused themselves, not the first that had worked with one of the accused, did not recommend charges though.
 
I mean even if they were to escape the judicial system, how as a human being can some one not feel a tiny bit guilty for the actions in such scenarios is beyond me, That would be borderline psychotic!
 
Crazy the amount of racist dog whistling and outright idiocy that’s been spouted in the last few pages.
 
Rado_N said:
I’m sure I’ve mentioned this to you before but this was how it seemed the majority of people felt about Trump when my wife and I visited not long after the election.

So many people felt the need to tell us they didn’t vote for him, just entirely out of nowhere.
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I even heard that in the time of George Bush when I was in America. I wonder what those people would be saying today.
 
The third person needs to be charged as well.

The McMichaels used the excuse that Arbery was seen on camera breaking into homes, but from USA TODAY
USA TODAY filed an open public records request with the Glynn County Police Department for burglaries and home break-ins in the Satilla Shores neighborhood between Jan. 1 and Feb. 23. The department's records office said in an email Thursday it had no records matching that request.
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Fecking hell. What the feck is America doing. Its mental people getting gunned down while jogging just because you are black. How many people need to be killed before America ban guns? The racism I cant see getting any better sadly, at least take away their guns.
 
Suv666 said:
Fecking hell. What the feck is America doing. Its mental people getting gunned down while jogging just because you are black. How many people need to be killed before America ban guns? The racism I cant see getting any better sadly, at least take away their guns.
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What makes me laugh about America is many different ethnicities fought for America in many wars for the freedom they all have, yet some still treat them like they're outsiders. For me America has hardly changed since the 60s/70s.
 
The Arbery murder made the evening news here. Good to see it gets attention globally.
 
Saw a slightly longer version of the video on Don Lemon last night. It's even worse in that one.

Read somewhere that the lawyer who released it did so to counter the narrative that they hunted Arbery down and murdered him. Not sure if serious.
 
Attorney General to look into how case was handled from outset
Here are further reports that the cops involved in the Arbery case wanted to do an arrest, but were shut down by the DA. And confirmed his ‘crime’ was stopping temporarily at an empty construction site on a walk through his neighborhood.

The local police aren’t the crooks here, it’s the DA‘s that need looking at. The grown-ups have taken over from the locals, which is encouraging.

CBS News
 
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