Why has Mourinho failed? Too long in the tooth? He's not going to last the whole season. I hope we've got replacements lined up.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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He used Achraaf, Majoral, Llorente and Vallejo but iirc they were all promoted under Benitez with Vallejo already playing at pro level for an other club. Real didn't really had marquee youth players outside of Asensio.
He has been backed though. He's spent a fortune on new players. Are you saying we aren't beating the likes of Wolves and Derby at home because we need to spend even more money? I can't agree with this argument anymore.
Jose has spent a fortune here and he spent a fortune at Chelsea. Doesn't it concern you at all that we're looking very similiar to how it looked at Chelsea in Jose's final days/weeks/months? Aren't the alarm bells ringing for you now or are you one of those fans that have stuck by Jose so far and refuse to change your stance?
Because I was like you, I refused to believe that we could do better without Jose Mourinho as manager. But believe me, we can. We can do so much better.
Not sure if that's 100% what he said but if that is true (and the context is right) - I don't know how this is going to mend itself.
I'll be shocked if Mourinho doesn't get the bad end of this.
I'd rather have McKenna and Carrick in charge at the moment than Mourinho.
We are not making top4 and we aren't winning anything with Mourinho, every day he's still here is a wasted day. Yes McKenna & Carrick may well mess things up, but it can't be any worse than it is at the moment.
We are not making top4 and we aren't winning anything with Mourinho, every day he's still here is a wasted day. Yes McKenna & Carrick may well mess things up, but it can't be any worse than it is at the moment.
I interpret it as "Okay, now stop".
Clear as day, the guys who heard it earlier were right.
In the comments at 1 minute there is ‘take Paul home’.
Whilst I understand that recent results have been below expectations, I really don't understand the 'Mourinho Out' clamour. We've already had the 'Moyes Out' movement and the 'Van Gaal Out' thing in recent years. We really cant keep flip flopping between managers like this just because the team lose a few games. I understand that the tumescent, defensive football is aggravating people, but we knew what we were getting when we appointed him. The thing about playing the 'United Way', just like the West Ham fans talk about the 'West Ham Way', or the Spurs fans talk about the 'Tottenham Way', is sentimental irrelevant horseshit. We have to accept that what is gone, is gone and to hark back to our all conquering period is delusional and unhelpful. The under 35's who grew up on a diet of regular titles and other honours will be finding this very difficult, but if they are finding it too difficult, they always have the option of buggering off and supporting a more successful/attractive team (currently). In the meantime, there is little to be gained in my view with yet another change. Mourinho needs at least another season and probably two to get this team where it needs to be. It will be painful, there will be little in the way of trophies or, indeed entertainment, but to take another risk with another change feels like to big a step. In a year or two's time, if we change, we would have a 'Pochetino Out' or a 'Zidane Out' movement. The only manager that I would readily change Jose for is Guardiola, but I don't see that there is much chance of that.
I agree we have problems deeper than the manager, but I think we arrive at that conclusion in different ways.
A lot of people that back Mourinho think the problems run deeper because we've now had 3 managers and most likely fail with all 3 of them. Just because 3 of them failed doesn't mean the problems running deeper is some mythical force that is causing all managers to fail at doing their job.
All 3 managers have been rather conservative in approach and until we get a more progressive manager I don't see how we can arrive at the conclusion that a manager can't fix the problem. We've been complaining about a lack of movement in attack and how few chances we create in attack. Was Moyes clueless? Yes. Was LVG incredibly strict and wanted players to act like robots, always picking the non-risky attacking move? Yes. From what people associated with Mou in the past, it seems like Mou lets players have complete freedom going forward, so long as they always have in mind their defensive shape and duty. At surface level it seems like having complete freedom means they're free to attack, but that is obviously not true if the reason why they're not taking more risks is due to being scared of Mou's affinity for the team being rock solid in defense and to be mindful of letting cracks surface in that shape. Furthermore, if the attack seems clueless, complete freedom is obviously not the answer as they clearly need to be instructed on some level to get them to perform much better in attack.
Only after having look at those commonalities between all 3 managers can you then arrive at the conclusion that Woodward is the problem, not because he's the reason why the managers are failing. But because he's the one not learning from past managerial failures.
It does not absolve the managers of any blame, and Woodward being at fault does not mean the next new manager can't fix everything up. It could just mean that Woodward either learned from his past mistakes, or he got really lucky in his selection for the next manager. The next manager appointed will give us much more evidence of Woodward's incompetence.
I'm not a fan of Pochettino either btw. I don't think he moves the needle enough and if our attack has been a constant problem, I feel like that's the problem that needs to get prioritized. This is the same reason why I'm not that big of a Zidane fan. However, football aside, one thing is clear. His man management will be better than Mourinho and for that reason alone he will be an upgrade over current Mou.
How exactly has Jose not been backed whilst being here?
I think we've reached the lowest point of Mourinho's tenure. I mean, we're out of the Carabao Cup, we are miles behind City/Liverpool so we ain't winning the league (be lucky to get fourth looking at the state of the team at the moment), it's dreamland to think we will get too far in the Champions League which leaves us with an outside chance of the FA Cup, and it looks like he's pissed off a number of his players....and it's only September!
Also, since Fergie left, is this the worst start to a season we've had? I don't know.....
Also, since Fergie left, is this the worst start to a season we've had? I don't know.....
Our problem has been appointing three negative minded managers post the SAF era. My personal choice for the job was Tuchel.
I hope Woodward shows some bottle in the coming weeks and relieves Mourinho of his duties so we can hope to see some good football again.
I hope Woodward shows some bottle in the coming weeks and relieves Mourinho of his duties so we can hope to see some good football again.
Jose has been backed heavily, the mistake the club made is seemingly to not back him fully this summer giving Jose an excuse, and people the opportunity to say he's not been backed, when he's been given an absolute fortune.
I am convinced he says "pick it up" as in, enough of the secret handshakes, you're late and you need to focus haha
He's been backed but sadly most of his signings have been rubbish.
LVG's first season was pretty diabolical. By the end of September we had lost to Swansea at home, blew a 3-1 lead to Leicester away, got smashed 4-0 by MK Dons in the League Cup, drew to Sunderland and Burnley and only managed wins against QPR at home and West Ham at home.
Moyes too. Losing 4-1 to City, losing to Liverpool (but beating them in the league cup), losing to West Brom at home, that awful 0-0 against Chelsea, only beating Swansea and Palace. Pretty tough start in fairness.
I’m with you. Knowing that his relationship with the manager is under public scrutiny you have to question the intentions and mentality of someone who posts that video.
1. It would have been wise not to post anything at all except for a generic supportive message, given the level of focus on him.
2. In a 90 minute match he seemingly decided the 5 minute spell we were behind in the match was the opportune moment to make a video. Not the moment we score the first goal, or half-time or the large portion of the match whilst we were 1-0 up. Or when Fellaini equalises.
3. He then appears to make light of the situation.
4. Despite capturing him, Perreira and Shaw smiling and laughing he still thinks it won’t do any harm posting this on a terrible night for the club and the manager.
I’m all for players having fun but he knows how this looks and he’s fine with it
Doesn't Tuchel fall out with people as well.
These were both those manager's grace periods. Disappointing and worrying as they might have been as results - it's understandable that we didn't freak out just then.
I forget what its like for us to be proper good form really, it's been that long. That early part of last season was the definition of a false dawn.
Yeah it's just worrying now that we're performing this way with a manager in his 3rd season with us.
Mourinho's first season had much more promise. We actually produced quite a lot of chances, we just kept fecking them up. That long unbeaten run (despite drawing like half of them) was nice. Not to mention 2 trophies.
I was referring to Jose if that was the reason
He's laughing at Shaw giving the metal hands. How can there be anything in that? If they were on the bench, sure, but not in the stands. I'm not having it.
In some ways that sentiment should be thrust at themselves. Whenever someone brings up attacking football, the Mourinho cult brings up a lack of winning. Or if you bring up why Klopp is given more patience by fans, they're quick to bring up the lack of trophies.
Just something I've noticed.
A lot of us actually lowered the bar for Mourinho. Never a long term manager, but has somehow turned into a long term manager for these lot now that the short term success all of us hoped he would bring turned out to be a sham.
Good question!
2017/18
League = W2 D1 L2 (Spurs(H) only tricky game, on paper)
CL = W1 (against weakest team in group)
League Cup = L1 (against Derby)
2013/14
League = W2 D1 L2 (already played Chelsea (H) Liverpool(A) and City(A)
CL = W1 (against strongest team in group)
League Cup = W1 (against Liverpool)
So we've had a worse start than David Moyes did!
Will check the others later...
Sooner he’s gone the better.
The longer we keep him the worse it’ll get.
The longer we keep him the worse it’ll get.
I dont know who should be the next manager we pick, but I would in a heartbeat sack Mourinho and at the very least, let McKenna be the interim manager for however long is required. This season is a bust anyway, people who think we have hope for anything under Mourinho are deluding themselves. Get an interim in charge and we can do a long thorough process to replace Mourinho, and if McKenna does well, then just keep him!
It's a fecking mystery how this man has won anything is his career.
The worry is the trend of players who don't respond to his shit is sliding downwards.
Chelsea 1.0 and Inter loved him in the main. Madrid and Chelsea 2.0 were both glad to see the back of him and it appears to going the same way with us.
Sooner he is gone the better, let him discuss heritage somewhere else.
It was the same with Mou too. We all believed in him after his initial few games, then he got found out. Difference is that Pep was also failing which dulled some of the criticism, and there was always that narrative that Mou in his 2nd season would win the league.
Exactly.
Plus he's probably tarred Shaw and Pereira with the same brush, in the eyes of the manager. The last thing either of them need.
Just an incomprehensibly thoughtless thing to do from someone who allegedly fancies himself as captain material.
Did I mention anything about Mourinho falling out with anyone?
Think it was more Mislintat he fell out with, rather than players?
14/15
League = W1 D2 L2
CL = n/a
League Cup = L1 (4-0 v MK Dons)
15/16
League = W5, D1, L1 (Spurs H and Liverpool H the strongest teams)
CL = L1 (PSV away)
CL qualifiers = W2
League Cup = W1 (Ipswich home)
More league games in 15/16 due to the earlier start of the season
At 0:33-0:35 Pogba appears to gesture in the general direction of Shaw and Pereira. I wonder if they’re talking about the video Pogba made at the game.
Seriously? I wasn't talking about this specific incident.
"Spent his time building a siege mentality, instead of building a trebuchet"
Right. The guy who went to Arsenal?
I don't believe that Jose was telling Pogba to leave the ground or the club.
For a mature man of his age, that strikes me as very childish.
If he genuinely did not want Pogba to train with the team, then he'd most likely have told Carrick to tell Pogba to get changed, go home and come back tomorrow.
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