The Mueller Report

Eboue said:
congrats to everyone who breathlessly followed each minor development and made bold predictions and gave trump a huge victory that he will use constantly on the campaign trail. well done yall
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Broke: she warned us

Woke: we warned the libs
 
Irish Jet said:
2016 was a good opportunity for introspection in the Democratic party establishment after a catastrophic failure on their part.

They instead went all in on Russiagate, with Clinton herself still saying it was the primary reason she lost. They have chosen to die on this hill - mass hysteria without any hard evidence. Trump and supporters now have legitimate reason to ridicule the “fake news” media, the “witch hunt” etc. We’ll never hear the f*cking end of this during the 2020 campaign. That ghoul Lindsey Graham, once hailed by the media as “the resistance”, just called it a great day. Great job.
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just a complete embarrassment all around.
 
Of course. But, to blame that on Obama is like giving credit to Trump for the current economy. Both were started before them. They definitely had input & some effect, but to solely blame Obama / credit Trump is shockingly shortsighted.
 
Fully Fledged said:
He didn't get 50% of the vote when he won did he?
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Nope, he got a smooth 46.1%. And the highest his approval rating has been on the FiveThirtyEight tracker (which aggregates polls) is the briefest of moments at 47%, right after the election. There's not a chance in hell he reliably gets an approval rating of 51%. He wouldn't get it even if the Mueller report outright cleared him of any possible wrongdoing, which it doesn't.
 
berbatrick said:
Pg. 2, last line:
https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/democrats.judiciary.house.gov/files/documents/AG March 24 2019 Letter to House and Senate Judiciary Committees.pdf
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It’s a very high bar. We’re talking about no explicit evidence of a deal between Trump/Russia. There could still be enough circumstantial evidence combined with his financial exposure to Russia to conclude beyond reasonable doubt that he’s compromised and that explains why Russia backed him so hard and why he’s since done so much in their interest in return.
 
niMic said:
Nope, he got a smooth 46.1%. And the highest his approval rating has been on the FiveThirtyEight tracker (which aggregates polls) is the briefest of moments at 47%, right after the election. There's not a chance in hell he reliably gets an approval rating of 51%. He wouldn't get it even if the Mueller report outright cleared him of any possible wrongdoing, which it doesn't.
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Even more telling is that both Trump and Clinton received about 26% of all eligible voters. That's the amount that is determining the election - just a quarter of the people.
 
Raoul said:
Pg 3. Last line of first paragraph
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I am talking about collusion with Russia, which is what started this, motivated this, and has been the public face of the Mueller investigation.
 
niMic said:
Nope, he got a smooth 46.1%. And the highest his approval rating has been on the FiveThirtyEight tracker (which aggregates polls) is the briefest of moments at 47%, right after the election. There's not a chance in hell he reliably gets an approval rating of 51%. He wouldn't get it even if the Mueller report outright cleared him of any possible wrongdoing, which it doesn't.
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Yeah the triumphalism is a little odd (from both right and left). He's just not a popular president, this isn't going to drag him single-handedly to re-election just like Clinton's clearing in 2016 didn't take her emails off the table as a campaign issue. It just denied the other side the knock-out blow they'd been hoping for, which are always long-shots at best.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Even more telling is that both Trump and Clinton received about 26% of all eligible voters. That's the amount that is determining the election - just a quarter of the people.
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That's how democracy works. If you don't vote, you don't count. How else would it work? Force everyone to vote or else jail time?
 
berbatrick said:
I am talking about collusion with Russia, which is what started this, motivated this, and has been the public face of the Mueller investigation.
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Ahh ok. I thought you meant he was exonerated of all crimes, which he obviously isn't.
 
CA_vampire said:
That's how democracy works. If you don't vote, you don't count. How else would it work? Force everyone to vote or else jail time?
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I think what he means is that the issue is the fact so many people are disengaged with politics. That's not good in a democracy.
 
Ubik said:
Yeah the triumphalism is a little odd (from both right and left). He's just not a popular president, this isn't going to drag him single-handedly to re-election just like Clinton's clearing in 2016 didn't take her emails off the table as a campaign issue. It just denied the other side the knock-out blow they'd been hoping for, which are always long-shots at best.
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Also worth noting this has nothing to do with the SDNY investigation which is arguably more dangerous to Trump since it looks into 30 plus years of Trump Org activity.
 
Ubik said:
Yeah the triumphalism is a little odd (from both right and left). He's just not a popular president, this isn't going to drag him single-handedly to re-election just like Clinton's clearing in 2016 didn't take her emails off the table as a campaign issue. It just denied the other side the knock-out blow they'd been hoping for, which are always long-shots at best.
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It's triumphalism because many of us saw this coming - the uncertain but mostly negative outcome of the investigation, the political prestige it gives Trump on conclusion, the problem it now presents to the liberal media and Dem talking points - and screamed about it for a while in early 2017, endured 2 years of this being centred on the news, only to see everything vindicated. I woud be afraird of a number of the much-vaunted suburban moderate voters switching for Trump after seeing their news heroes proved wrong.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/07/russiagate-anticommunism-putin-left-foreign-policy
 
berbatrick said:
Pg. 2, last line:
https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/democrats.judiciary.house.gov/files/documents/AG March 24 2019 Letter to House and Senate Judiciary Committees.pdf
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I get what you are saying, collusion v obstruction.
oneniltothearsenal said:
Even more telling is that both Trump and Clinton received about 26% of all eligible voters. That's the amount that is determining the election - just a quarter of the people.
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What a horrible stat for my country.
 
CA_vampire said:
That's how democracy works. If you don't vote, you don't count. How else would it work? Force everyone to vote or else jail time?
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Because if we are just analyzing how well the American Republic functions the fact that only 26% of all eligible voters are voting for each major party is damning of the overall system in general when just about every other advanced country gets much greater voter turnout.

As your other post said the Dems and Clinton people need to take their blame and stop whining about Russia stealing an election they felt entitled to two years before any votes were cast.
 
CA_vampire said:
That's how democracy works. If you don't vote, you don't count. How else would it work? Force everyone to vote or else jail time?
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If no candidate wins with a big majority (over 51% of the total of possible voters), then they should run it again, until one candidate gets there.

The current model force people to pick up a winner, even if all candidates are shit. "the lesser evil".
 
CA_vampire said:
That's how democracy works. If you don't vote, you don't count. How else would it work? Force everyone to vote or else jail time?
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Push the election to the Monday after the Super Bowl & create a national day off. Quite a few of us already take that day off, all we would need to do is vote through a hangover.
 
My (admittedly few) Trump friends are going to act like Scouse friends over this. Their response might rival how they will act if they win the league or CL.
 
Loublaze said:
And so should Sean Hannity
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hannity is beyond any hope. all the people who promoted it to advance their professional careers should resign in disgrace. all of the people who credulously and naively followed each leak and detail for years thinking it would bring trump down ought to reexamine how they view the world and how they think politics works.
 
Raoul said:
Also worth noting this has nothing to do with the SDNY investigation which is arguably more dangerous to Trump since it looks into 30 plus years of Trump Org activity.
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Don't waste your time. Take a rain check and let the chest beating commence. Come back when more details start to leak...

Anyone would think the president and all those in his orbit had just been cleared of all crimes...
 
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RedSky said:
So Mueller laid out all of the evidence for both sides of the argument without providing a final statement. It was simply a report to inform rather to judge. Therefore nothing really has changed, whats required for the American people is to see what the report found out.
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No. The report had two overarching components, one of which he made a clear and definitive decision about. The Trump campaign didn't "collude" which Russia, as per his description.

Irish Jet said:
2016 was a good opportunity for introspection in the Democratic party establishment after a catastrophic failure on their part.

They instead went all in on Russiagate, with Clinton herself still saying it was the primary reason she lost. They have chosen to die on this hill - mass hysteria without any hard evidence. Trump and supporters now have legitimate reason to ridicule the “fake news” media, the “witch hunt” etc. We’ll never hear the f*cking end of this during the 2020 campaign. That ghoul Lindsey Graham, once hailed by the media as “the resistance”, just called it a great day. Great job.
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I think you're overlooking a pretty key fact here. The Russians actively conspired to support the Trump campaign through a number of illegal measures, and attempted to infiltrate the Trump campaign on multiple occasions. Russiagate was a thing. Just because people lost sight about what the Russian interference in the election was actually about, doesn't change the facts of the matter.

It's up to you whether you believe the US justice department on Russian military intelligence actions, given how much disinformation has been put out there on both sides for decades, but if you want to take the report at face value then you'll have to acknowledge that Muller has made a judgment that the Russians took steps to influence the election in favour of Trump.
 
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