This is very low on voters priorities .So no
The Mueller Report
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Agreed on that, ~42% approval rating seems to be his baseline. It's moved above and below but seems to always move back to that level over time. He may get a short term boost, but in a few months when he's invariably embroiled in another scandal or he's made some ridiculous political gaffe, his approval will come back to that same area.
Assume that Mueller did find something really bad:
1. If Mueller is independent, and found something important, and put it in the report, and then Barr hides that... then Mueller can give Democrats some clues and help uncover the whole thing. This is a huge personal risk for Barr to take.
2. If Mueller does not whisper anything to anyone, then obviously he does not care for the truth to come out. In that case, he probably wrote nothing really damning in the report in the first place, after all he is a Republican.
Again, that is assuming that there was something really bad to find. We don't know that, it is quite possible that there wasn't.
The biggest trap would be for the Dems to fight hard for months and months for the full report to come out, and then just before the elections the full report does come out and contains nothing important.
Some posters are resigning to an automatic Trump 2020 win. I don't see the logic in that. Forget the sycophants for a minute and think about the battleground states that he barely won. A lot of those voters have probably already realized his promises to bring back the manufacturing industries are bullshit.I don't see how it matters a jot. His supporters couldn't give a shit what he does.
Said it already but this idea Trump has to be a criminal to get people to turn on him is laughable, if not scary. He's a fcuking idiot, blatant racist and complete embarrassment - and yet he's still probably good for the 2020 win.
Perhaps it's not that simple because it's so multi-faceted? He tried to prevent Sessions from recusing so he could protect him from the investigation, in spite of the DOJ recommendation. He then undermined him and eventually got rid of him, at least in part because he left Trump vulnerable to the investigation. Tried to bully multiple government officials into false or non testimony on the investigation. Provided false information to congress via his subordinates to protect himself from the investigation. Sacked comey and invented a cover story.
I'm sure there's lots more detailed in the report. The fact that there is a case for obstruction, and that Barr discussed it with the OLC, suggests it's not something easily dismissed.
The difficult question to prove is why he did it. No tapes, no notes, likely no hard evidence of Trump's motives. Just credible suspicions. He probably did some things that were on the edge of legality in the Russian interference, and had spme concerns that the deep state would twist it into trumped up charges. Or more likely that they'd pick up one thread and then start following the money, digging into all aspects of his personal and business life and corrupting the original investigation with the sole intention of attacking him personally. Which was a reasonable concern, after all. He tried to prevent people investigating him full stop, because everyone knows there's skeletons that could be dug up if they invest enough time and energy into it.
It's reasonable for him to want to protect himself. Some of the things he did to achieve that were more than questionable.
Oh yeah of course, that's the stuff that actually matters and will hurt him if it comes to it.
Obstruction to hide what?
For example, Nixon wanted to hide that his people were responsible for the break-in at the DNC headquarters.
Can you give me in ONE sentence what Trump's "obstruction" was trying to hide? If you can't, then it is irrelevant for the voters. I have followed the whole saga, I am educated, and still I have no idea what he was trying to hide if there was no collusion with the Russians. I am sure that for the majority of independent voters, this whole thing is meaningless now.
Trump tower deal, or violation of campaign finance laws (Stormy Daniels), or something else.
This answer proves that we have no idea what it is supposed to hide!
A version?
A version?
I'm guessing theres top level secrets / strategies etc that can't be released to the public.
Isn't the simplest answer the most obvious scenario? Theres been leaks throughout this entire fiasco yet now everybody shuts up shop to protect the president?
I just don't buy it. This whole thing has been wishful thinking and even now it continues.
He lies every single day, they admire that. He increases their taxes, they think he’s wonderful. He is about to remove their healthcare, they’ll sing his praises. I feel awful saying it but many of the people who vote for him have got to be incredibly thick because they are choosing to vote for someone who would ruin their lives without another thought and they really can’t seem to see it. It beggars belief to the rest of the world, it really does.
No, it's supposed to hide those two specifically, and potentially other things Trump had going on.
This isnt a risk for Barr in anyway. His boss is trump and what he has basically done is parse through the bad stuff and given lawyerly discriptions of what is in the mueller report by giving partial quotes most likely out of context and using his own bat shit crazy idea of what is obstruction and who can be chraged with doing it. This is no risk to him. I predict Mueller will be silent on all of this. He wont leak anything to the dems or give them a trail of bread crumbs. That isnt his style. He is speaking only with the report and this is why it needs to come out . Barr hasnt violated any law. He has just done what he can do to set the tone before the report is eventually released. Mu
That's not a fair conclusion in my view. It could simply be that he knows the report will come out eventually and his thoughts and actions for why he did or didnt do certain things will be there for all to see. The dems can call him in to congress if they want and get him to speak there.
I disagree here quite simply because Barr himself has basically said there is a host of shit done by the president within the report. Bar lietrally says "the report sets out evidence on both sides of the equation" as it pertains to obstruction. There is no other way to view that than saying the report shows evidence that the president has commited crimes. Barr himself says there are actions done by the president "most of which" has been reported punblicly. Now im no math wizz but (all of which) - (most of which) = "some of which" . These are little legal jargons used by lawyers to say something without saying it. What Barr is basically saying is that there is evidence in the report that the president commited multile crimes , some of the shit he has done we dont even know about. But in Barrs narrow view he doesnt recomend indictement because as his memo says this isnt a "traditional prosecutary judegement" becuase the president cannot be indicted because he is the president.
If there was nothing in the report it would have been released Monday morning.
A version?
There are counter-intelligence aspects to this investigation. It is likely the public will not (and should not) receive the full report.
We're talking about two different things. You're talking about voters; I don't give a shit about the next election. I think the standards presidents are held to, primarily by congress, is far more important.
I think Trump has been telling us all along what he's been worried about. People using this Russia investigation as a springboard to investigate his personal life and business. He very much believes in the deep state, very much believes that people are out to get him, and is worried about them getting a sniff of anything because he assumes they'll use it as an excuse to investigate his shady business dealings among other things. For example the financial statements showing the inflated value of his assets used to get a loan from Deutschebank, provided by his former lawyer. Once they start pulling on that thread there's every likelihood it'll lead to evidence of multiple crimes.
So no I don't think there is a single crime that is the source of his attempts to obstruct justice. I think it's part of a broad attempt to keep people from investigating many things he's done in the past and continues to do. He's right to feel aggrieved that he's being investigated with such intensity but that doesn't make it ok to obstruct justice. That would be one of the most damaging norms he could solidify in his time as president. The people that voted for him don't give a feck he's a crook. Maybe they'd care a little bit more if he did things of a criminal nature as president, but even then I'm not sure.
The investigations and the election seem largely independent of each other, from my perspective.
The public don't need to see the full report, we wouldn't understand most of it. It does need to be parsed by someone knowledgeable and unbiased...
Not sure we'll see that happen though.
One thing is for sure, once the GOP gave up any pretence of acting in the best interest of anyone but themselves, it made it a lot easier to win the PR game.
Trump says no collusion for 2 years (despite the more likely risk being obstruction), GOP lawyer writes job app saying a president can't obstruct justice in the way he's been accused, gets job, rules as he said he would, writes literally the best possible 'summary' of 2 years work into 3 pages and then sits on it til the public have firmly become bored about it.
Reminder, the DOJ are not the check on the President. That is Congress. Who aren't being allowed to see the results of an investigation into the President .
Let me put it another way. Imagine an island nation with a President accused of a major crime, who is under investigation. Then that President picks the one person who will read the report, gets it through a Senate he controls with a 51% majority and only that appointee and his direct staff ever get to see the extent of the presidential wrong doing. It's pure banana republic stuff.
But 42% of the population are too stupid to care.
Watch then moan about their health care costs, poor education and stagnant wages.
Trump says no collusion for 2 years (despite the more likely risk being obstruction), GOP lawyer writes job app saying a president can't obstruct justice in the way he's been accused, gets job, rules as he said he would, writes literally the best possible 'summary' of 2 years work into 3 pages and then sits on it til the public have firmly become bored about it.
Reminder, the DOJ are not the check on the President. That is Congress. Who aren't being allowed to see the results of an investigation into the President .
Let me put it another way. Imagine an island nation with a President accused of a major crime, who is under investigation. Then that President picks the one person who will read the report, gets it through a Senate he controls with a 51% majority and only that appointee and his direct staff ever get to see the extent of the presidential wrong doing. It's pure banana republic stuff.
But 42% of the population are too stupid to care.
Watch then moan about their health care costs, poor education and stagnant wages.
you dont even have to go that far.
Imagine instead of Congress deciding if Bill Clinton obstructed justice everyone just said "hey lets ask Janet Reno her opinion of if Bill comited crimes ".
https://www.businessinsider.com/bar...cutive-privilege-2019-3?utm_source=reddit.com
The White House will get the Mueller report before the public does in case it wants to make redactions, Barr says
The White House will get the Mueller report before the public does in case it wants to make redactions, Barr says
This is another misconception. The full report might contain actual state secrets, including names and interviews of US spies, that can never be published. We are talking about Russia here, it wouldn't be a surprise if people from CIA, NSA and other agencies were interviewed.
wait we cannot celebrate Trump's innocence anymore 
People aren't objective. He's got a good portion of delusional America well fooled.
Maybe collusion has always been the wrong word. How about leveraged? Blackmailed? Bullied? Bribed? Encouraged? Enticed? Deceived?
Putin isn't stupid and if he played a fool like Trump he would never leave a trail back to him. It now appears Trump isn't as stupid either and covers his tracks adequately and is happy to not only let others take the fall, but he will throw them under the bus and personally drive over them before completely destroying them and disassociating himself from them too.
What I can't understand is how many still defend him and are scared of him. It's been reported Trump likes to gather shit on his enemies, I bet he has folders of shit on the Republicans too.
I'm not saying Russia pulled all the strings and Trump colluded with them to the extent some claim. I'm more saying that the corruption runs deep and his actions including Trump tower Moscow and his private unrecorded meetings with Putin definitely show something was going on.
Putin isn't stupid and if he played a fool like Trump he would never leave a trail back to him. It now appears Trump isn't as stupid either and covers his tracks adequately and is happy to not only let others take the fall, but he will throw them under the bus and personally drive over them before completely destroying them and disassociating himself from them too.
What I can't understand is how many still defend him and are scared of him. It's been reported Trump likes to gather shit on his enemies, I bet he has folders of shit on the Republicans too.
I'm not saying Russia pulled all the strings and Trump colluded with them to the extent some claim. I'm more saying that the corruption runs deep and his actions including Trump tower Moscow and his private unrecorded meetings with Putin definitely show something was going on.
I think the thing about this overall is that it's very complex and has lots of different webs and angles which need to be untangled. On all sides. I sincerely doubt there was ever a meeting, for example, where Trump and his team sat down and planned to collude with the Russians. Nevertheless, it's clear a lot of rich and powerful Americans (and indeed beyond) have financial interests in Russia (and indeed other major countries) and I wouldn't be shocked if that encompasses Trump and a lot of his team too. It's quite possible some of those financial interests would've revealed some fairly dodgy stuff about Trump and senior Republicans, even if it's not connected directly to 2016. I've seen that suggested as a reason a number of Republicans don't want the report to come out - even if it's been a success for them in that Trump's not going to jail or being charged with anything, even an indication as to what Mueller was investigating may be quite revealing insofar as what he himself suspects was happening behind the scenes.
On the other end of the spectrum, Putin enjoys meddling in other countries' affairs because he sees the long-term benefits of trying to destabilise Western powers. Again, to an extent any interference in 2016 was probably quite opportunistic and off-the-cuff to an extent, once Putin realised he had a Republican candidate running who had a certain level of admiration for him. Putin himself would've never dealt with this directly - that's one of the handy things about Russia basically being an oligarchy. If there was hypothetical interference, I imagine a lot of the negotiating (so to speak) would've come from prominent business with whom he's good friends, but who aren't strictly in government as such.
The gang of 8 learn and know about every you just mentioned. There is no reason they could not have been given the report unredacted already.
All Barr is doing is waiting till no one gives a feck anymore and then drops a highly redacted version of the report that has some random quotes with no context like he did with his bullshit "summary"
They aren't even releasing the page count
Every president does that. Obstructing justice is the norm.
Yeah the things that actually affect peoples lives. Most people dont watch cable news and read the New Yorker. It doesnt matter if the president collude if you cant afford to see a doctor.
This post is spot on. People who expected the DOJ to produce results that would lead to presidential impeachment were living in an alternate reality. Everyone brings up Nixon and Watergate but I reckon that without deep throat passing information to Woodward and Bernstein, Nixon would have survived and the truth would not have been figured out during his presidency.
I would say most, not all, but yes I largely agree. The notable difference for me is that when they took these measures to protect themselves, it was in really exceptional circumstances - Iran-Contra, Watergate, etc. They were hiding something substantive, something which demonstrated the truly ugly elements of American political life. Trump has lowered the bar considerably and I think it necessitates a public response.
What do you suspect it contains? Assuming the DOJ did not make up the quotes from the report - is there really going to be anything substantial? I mean, maybe it unearths some unrelated stuff, but as far as what the investigation was about is concerned, I'm not sure what people are expecting.
Can Congress subpoena the report? If they can, enough of this bullshit.
Well it clearly contains details on Trump campaign officials lying under oath to hide that they'd met with or sought meetings with Russians. It clearly contains details about the President writing a letter for his son lying to the country about meeting a Russian. It clearly contains details about the President planning to and then firing the head of the FBI because he thought it would prevent an investigation into himself.
It contains at least all those details because we already know them, from court documents and sworn testimony.
This is my point - all of these things are morally questionable and many voters would think are illegal. But because the President appointed a pet AG who believes the only bar is whether it would be a likely CRIMINAL conviction, and is corrupt enough to write a deliberately misleading memo that blindly contradicts the very word exonerate - the voters don't know.
That's why the house has to get it. They're not in their position because the President chose them, they're the because the people did.