I enjoyed the fight they showed. The ref should be blamed for things getting too far out of control, had he gave the red/s when they were due the game wouldn't have gotten as bad as it did. Good entertainment and bite we've not seen since Arsenal vs United.
The Spurs thread
- Thread starter GlastonSpur
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
He's been there for how long BTW? I don't know much about him. I hardly know anything about directors.
You mentioned this before. And I posted the following, which I got no response to.
What's this huge change in composition of the top 4 that you were correct about? This is the first year there's more than 1 change to the top 4. Generally the top 4 has 3 of the "big 4". In fact, 2 of the last 4 years it's been the big 4. I really am not seeing this huge change. If this happens again next year .. maybe this is a change. But you can't say it after 1 year.
He's been there a long long time, for a club who perpetually have no money have a look at their trophy haul over the last 10 years, it's ridiculous.
4 x Europa League
2 x Copa Del Ray
1 UEFA super cup
And numerous CL qualifications.
They obviously can't win the league in Spain, so they have been winning whatever they can, very impressive.
Until Mourinho is confirmed, there's literally nothing to suggest United will finish above Tottenham next season.
Unfortunately having more fans or being 'the biggest club in the world' won't translate to points.
And despite the money, there's also little to suggest the genuine A* players want to play for Manchester United, so the gap between Tottenham's players and United's isn't actually going to be as wide as it has been for aeons.
I swear some fans still haven't grasped that the days of being guaranteed anything left the second Sir Alex retired. The United of three/four years ago might as well be considered a different club.
Unfortunately having more fans or being 'the biggest club in the world' won't translate to points.
And despite the money, there's also little to suggest the genuine A* players want to play for Manchester United, so the gap between Tottenham's players and United's isn't actually going to be as wide as it has been for aeons.
I swear some fans still haven't grasped that the days of being guaranteed anything left the second Sir Alex retired. The United of three/four years ago might as well be considered a different club.
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I'd say most Utd fans would agree if Van Gaal stays. Most will be working under the assumption he will be gone though.
If van Gaal stays there's very little chance of us finishing above Tottenham or in top 4 next season.
When we're back challenging for trophies we will get top class players wanting to come here. Might take a while.
This is basically it. Many will deny it, though.
Awaiting the "Kane is a 2 season wonder" thread.
I'm not doubting you, its just others want to poke their noses in.
Alright, if you wish it's "weakened slightly prior to this season", and now that weakening has gone further. So after post after post disputing my basic premise, now you finally accept it.
As for the rest, I'm done playing silly buggers with you.
Your basic premise was stating 6 years ago that the old guard was about to change and it didn't matter what Chelsea and Utd had done. There's only one way a 100% domination can go. As it is 83% is still hugely dominant. You're done because you've no more nonsense to spout and refuse to accept basic facts.
I haven't said anything about United needing to sell their best players ... although whether de Gea will want to stick around for another season is an open question.
Poch has just signed a new 5 year contract, which will reportedly earn him £4.5m per year. Clearly he's staying at Spurs for the foreseeable future, as are all of our best players, several of whom will sign contract extensions in the near future and be no doubt very happy to do so as they look forward to CL football next season. In short, Poch and his young squad will be back next season ... united together in strong team spirit.
Good luck to United for being a "Big gun", although this summer it's a gun with rather less fire-power because the ammunition has been downgraded.
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I agree that the top 4 battles will be more tightly contested, however in my view that means its going to be even more difficult for the likes of Spurs/Liverpool than ever before (certainly semi consistently). My view is we'll see any one or two of the likes of Leicester, West Ham, So'ton, Everton, Stoke, Liverpool, Spurs etc competing every so often.
The reason for this is that those clubs can compete with and now beat the historic challengers to signings. Going forward West Ham or Leicester may gazzump yourselves to the likes of Erikson, Lamela, Alli, Alderweirald, Firmino, Coutinho etc. From next season there's no reason why West Ham or Leicester can't sell the dream to those type of player and offering them a big salary to go with it (Olympic Stadium, title winners etc). Liverpool and Spurs especially will struggle to keep up with the likes of West Ham with significant stadium debt on the horizon.
However the likes of City, United, Chelsea & Arsenal will still be a league apart in terms of being in for the likes of Sanchez, Ozil, Di Maria, De Bruyne etc who have the greatest chance of success long term. Likewise the best players for the other clubs will still aspire to earning the truly huge (£250k salaries) that only 8 clubs in the world can afford.
Even if we accept the argument that the likes of Kane, Coutinho, Alli won't be allowed to go to a domestic rival. As occurred with Bale it'll "release" a top class player from the likes of Madrid. Kane or Alli go to Madrid, the chances are Benzema, Kroos, Isco and/or James come to England.
Overall it's as easy to see a bleak future for Spurs with the competition they'll face and the stadium debt to pay off and an exciting time for a young, exciting United team with a huge budget and a useless manager leaving.
My basic premise, as I've said several times now, is that there is now no longer a settled top 4 'elite', that several past events (all of which I've cited) have pointed to this development, and that Spurs have been the major gate-crasher of the top 4 party.
You regard this as "nonsense". Such a complacent and misplaced assessment fits well with the general attitude United as a club have displayed for the last 3 seasons: the belief that nothing much has really changed, and that money and the pursuit of "big names" will insulate United.
Face reality: (a) two seasons out of the top 4 in the last 3 years is likely; (b) that's a huge sea-change for United; and (c) there's far from being any guarantee that you'll regain top 4 next season. But carry on believing that the "old guard" is still on parade if you wish.
I'm not denying Utd have got worse and are a poor side at present. I'm saying you've been saying the same shit for years regardless and there hasn't yet been the tide of change you're claiming you correctly predicted. No reality needs to be faced here.
No United on your list? Surely you're not that pessimistic. And what about Chelski - won't they even get a sniff?
I'll mainly leave your longer term predictions for the future to look after. But in terms of this summer Spurs don't need to make any big signings - we have a settled, cohesive squad that will likely only get better due to its young average age. We'll be mainly be in the business of improving squad-cover and bringing through one or two prospects from our youth ranks, not making changes to the first XI. So W.Ham (or whoever) can gazump away to their heart's content for players that Spurs aren't seeking.
But I do think it's rather silly to suppose that "Spurs especially will struggle to keep up with the likes of West Ham", regardless of stadium debt. We haven't needed lots of spare money to get where we are (e.g. well ahead of W.Ham), as our record of being the lowest net-spender in the Prem over the last 5 years shows, so I'm not sure why you think this is now suddenly going to change.
And by all means continue with your "big names big money" approach. After all, it's worked well these last 3 seasons so why change a winning formula?
A "bleak future" for Spurs? Well, it's a brave prediction at least.
Have it your way. I'm done pointing out the obvious.
So am I. Win something and I'll bow to the might of Spurs.
Never said anything about United being big gun just pointed out that the big guns get what they want. Players or managers having contracts will mean jack shit when teams come with top squads, prestige and money to burn.. Even if you have CL for the first time and potential to become something.. Bale says hello...
Classic mistake, not investing when you're on top (and Spurs aren't even on top, you'll likely finish closer to us than to 1st and no one would ever claim we don't need work).
It's that sort of complacent attitude which will see Spurs become a victim of this newfangled transient nature of the top 4.
One change every year is 25% change every year. That's far from the picture of settled top 4 'elite' that some appear to want to cling to.
I mean, come on, do you really maintain that United are now still part of a settled top 4 'elite' (however illusionary the 'settled' part is)?
My prediction is based on expenditure on wages and fees being very closely correlated to success, which is an irrefutable fact (which it seems you like, albeit usually very selectively).
Your prediction seems to be based on Spurs randomly keeping all their best players for a decent period of time (which has never happened before), consistently making great decisions (which has never happened before) and generally batting way above their weight (which hasn't happened before for more than the odd season).
Answer this question: would Spurs have a bigger or smaller chance of winning trophies in the next decade if they had £100m per season to spend on players and £100m of inertia in their wage bill?
I admire your determination. You've literally spent the last 24 hours defending Tottenham.
I actually think you're one of the favourites for the title next season. I don't see a scenario where Levy allows Kane, Alli, or anyone else that Pochettino views as crucial to what he's trying to achieve to leave. That should mean that you can build around the very strong base of the side and bring in one or two players to challenge the starting eleven. Pochettino will be smart about it and look for players that suit his way of playing, rather than going down the tempting route of looking for 'big names' to boost the brand. You've also got United, Chelsea and City bringing in new managers again (like 13/14), and all three sides need some work to get them challenging again. Other than that you've got Arsenal who will most likely be held back by Wenger and Liverpool, currently 8th in the league and in need of a lot of work in the summer as well.
Assuming there's not another surprise and Leicester don't replicate what they've done this season, Spurs are looking like the healthiest side in the league right now. I don't know about three or four years from now but as far as next season goes, I'd say Spurs competing for the title is a likely scenario.
Well, you certainly implied it. However, carry on with the delusion that United can sign who they want when they want ... it's all part of the wider delusion that's afflicted your club for the last 3 years.
Spurs. They'll never get a chance to win the title again and they lost it to Leicester! Agree with this. I'd be surprised if they didn't actually. Though if it's Jose, Pep and Conte at the other 3 (United, City, Chelsea) and Klopp continuing to put his mark on Liverpool...along with Arsenal doing the same as they do every season it could be a dogfight for the top 4.
They'll do well to make top 4 next year. They've had just as a miracle year as Leicester have had in terms of injuries, team selections, results etc. Pottechino has flattered to deceive. With CL football up till Dec they'll be well off the pace come January.
But we are investing: in a new stadium complex, an extension of our training centre, in our youth development. Far from complacency it's solid investment in the long-term foundations of the club.
And we will be investing in squad improvements this summer - it's just I strongly doubt we'll be spending big on new first XI players that we don't need, because those we have already will mostly improve further.
Considering they've competed for the league and played Europa League football, I'd say that alone is evidence that they have a very capable squad that can compete again next season.
On the surface it looks harder than ever to get top four. There's the usual suspects, then the likes of West Ham, maybe Southampton or someone out of nowhere like Everton that could surprise everyone. Leicester could push on from this season as well. There's a lot of pressure on Arsenal, City, Chelsea and United to get it right in the summer. None of them are guaranteed a top four place nest season.
Actually the best thing you could do now is go out and sign 3 first teamers.
Don't think you're anywhere near as good or uncatchable as you think you are. You clearly do need first XI players unless you're happy winning nothing.
You'll likely finish between 4-7 points ahead of us. And that's us with a lame duck manager and a few glaring squad deficiencies.
That's a pretty unimpressive gap and could very easily be over-turned if Spurs stand relatively still in the market, and United get a competent manager and do some good business.
Careful with that complacency...
No, I don't think United are anymore, unfortunately. I do think with the right changes in the managerial structure however, there's a huge chance of getting back there. At the same time those changes have to happen, and the board have done nothing as of yet to make me believe that we're in capable hands.
I still don't think 25% is a huge change, especially given that each year that 1 club that misses out tends to make it back into the top 4 again pretty soon.
In a season where United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool all went from one disaster to another; Spurs still couldn't win the title. That's so Spurs that.
Well, we've kept all our best players since Bale was sold - and that's 3 years ago now. This next season will certainly make it 4 years - I'd call that a " decent period of time". And with Pochettino having just signed a new contract, I'd say the chances of carrying it onto a 5th year and beyond are rather good.
You say that Spurs haven't batted above their weight for more than the odd season, but this doesn't square with three top 4 finishes in the last 6 seasons whilst competing with 5 clubs that currently have significantly larger incomes, nor with finishing above Liverpool for 5 of the last 6 seasons.
I'd also say that since Pochettino has arrived we have made consistently good decisions - and there's no especial reason to suppose this will change from now on.
The answer to your question is obvious - any club will increase their chances of success, all else being equal, if they have more money to spend. But all else is not equal - the "else" covering a wide variety of things: the manager and coaching staff, youth development, squad average age, scouting network, transfer negotiation skills, training facilities etc etc etc.
So it's fine to base your prediction on money, but that doesn't necessarily mean United will regain top 4 next season. Personally, based on several non-money factors, I think the odds are against it.
it's actually three top 4 finishes in seven seasons, just thought I'd point that out, you can carry on.
you're still going with this crap?
You honestly think United fans would rather see Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal/City in the top 4 than Spurs?
I thought the last time you said these things because you were upset about something, do you actually believe it?
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Never inplied anything but thanks for seeing us with top squad, prestige and money to burn.. Bale still says Hi
Where have I said that Spurs are "uncatchable"?
I flatly disagree about signing 3 new first teamers. We have a talented first XI, young, cohesive and with excellent team spirit. The last thing we need is a major upheaval - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And if it's likely to improve further due to young average age and another summer of coaching, then let nature take it's course.
1. 2009-2010(4th)
2. 2010-2011
3. 2011-2012
4. 2012-2013 (4th)
5. 2013-2014
6. 2014-2015
7. 2015-2016 (2nd/3rd)
One must do his math correctly.
It doesn't matter how young, cohesive and talented you think they are. The table (where you're going to finish closer to 5th than 1st) and your abysmal cup performance doesn't lie.
Hopefully Levy et al are as complacent as you.
You can't count.