The Spurs thread

[Sarni]

No, all the time periods go backwards from the same starting point - i.e. today. And each time period is compared to same preceding time period for each of the clubs concerned - e.g. the last 6 years for Spurs compared the preceding 6 years for Spurs, or the last 5 seasons for Chelski compared to the preceding 5 years for Chelski.

The trends are clear, however much you try to quibble about it.

Yeah I know they're starting from the same point but they're not the same length. Like if you start today from London you can go to Beijing or you can go to Dover and it won't be the same distance.

Why is it 6 seasons for Spurs but only 3 for United? Because it's the only period of time you can possibly come up with that makes United look poor and makes Spurs look solid? If you take 4 years for United then you're having title winning season so you cannot do that. If you have anything below 6 for Spurs then this year is the only time you make CL. That's the reason, right?

 

[WhoDaGOAT]

Are you claiming that Leicester are as good as Barca?

Who do you support? For real? You know that Damien can easily find it and then you'll be in trouble.

Depends on what your football philosophy is. Some people might think Atlético and Leicester are the Devil compared to Barcelona. I appreciate both styles, though I prefer possession combined with high pressing.

I support Man Utd. Plain and simple. Damien and tell you what I watched on PornHub yesterday for all I care. He won't find anything. I have and always will support Manchester United Football Club. Just because I don't think Spurs are shite, doesn't mean I'm a Spurs fan.

 

[dirkey]

No, all the time periods go backwards from the same starting point - i.e. today. And each time period is compared to same preceding time period for each of the clubs concerned - e.g. the last 6 years for Spurs compared the preceding 6 years for Spurs, or the last 5 seasons for Chelski compared to the preceding 5 years for Chelski.

The trends are clear, however much you try to quibble about it.

And as has been pointed out to you repeatedly, yet you choose to ignore it completely, use 3 years for Spurs instead of 6. It's the most ludicrous "trend" I've ever seen. Randomly choosing a selection criteria that works. "I know, I'll use 3 years for United, because that paints United in a bad trend. Now, I'll use same 3 years for Spurs and that'll show ... oh, hang on, wait, I better not use 3 years. Let's try 4 .. hmm, no ... 5 ... hmm .. 6. There it is. that works. TREND TREND TREND".

 

[acnumber9]

If we look at a one year trend Leicester are going to win the league and Spurs are going to win feck all. I think we can all agree that the trend of Spurs winning feck all is guaranteed to continue. Because it's a trend.

 

[Revan]

If we look at a one year trend Leicester are going to win the league and Spurs are going to win feck all. I think we can all agree that the trend of Spurs winning feck all is guaranteed to continue. Because it's a trend.

And it is clear for all to see it.

 

[WhoDaGOAT]

Tbf, WhoDaGoat has a point that Atletico as a team make the individuals look better than they are in a different setting.

For example see Filipe Luis and his journey from atletico to Chelski back to Atletico.

He was considered best LB in europe by some at Atletico but struggled at CHelski and EPL and couldn't even get ahead of Azpi out of position or Ivanovic in a title winning team. (Not chelsea of this season.)


You could also draw comparisons to Leicester as a team this season and how their individual talents have gone from championship quality to looking like Top players. And tbf, it's partly true for the spurs unit as well but they have more individual talent as well.

Cheers.

Some players can only play well under certain managers or within certain systems. Sticking Messi in a Tony Pulis side isn't going to play to his strengths.

Godín, Luís and Gabi have all greatly benefited from Simeone's management. Hell, even Torres is seeing an improvement in his game.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Yeah I know they're starting from the same point but they're not the same length. Like if you start today from London you can go to Beijing or you can go to Dover and it won't be the same distance.

Why is it 6 seasons for Spurs but only 3 for United? Because it's the only period of time you can possibly come up with that makes United look poor and makes Spurs look solid? ...

Not so. If you want to take just the last 3 seasons including this one for both clubs, then Spurs have finished above United in two of them. And in any case, you're ignoring the other trends ... trends that collectively show that the composition of the top 4 clubs of the previous Prem era has changed significantly in recent years.

 

[Kostur]

Cheers.

Some players can only play well under certain managers or within certain systems. Sticking Messi in a Tony Pulis side isn't going to play to his strengths.

Godín, Luís and Gabi have all greatly benefited from Simeone's management. Hell, even Torres is seeing an improvement in his game.

And people like Alli, Dembele, Walker or Danny fecking Rose are vastly hampered by Pochettino or what?

Alli played for MK Dons, the other 3 were average bordering laughing stocks for most of their careers, what exactly are you trying to imply?

 

[WhoDaGOAT]

And people like Alli, Dembele, Walker or Danny fecking Rose are vastly hampered by Pochettino or what?

Alli played for MK Dons, the other 3 were average bordering laughing stocks for most of their careers, what exactly are you trying to imply?

And thumped United in The League Cup. Now he and Afobe are PL ballers.

Dembélé was only poor last season, in my opinion. He's always been a very good player.

Rose's rise is a mystery. Walker had a lot of potential originally. He started well and then went to shit for two years or so.

My point is that I think Atlético rely a lot more on teamwork, tactical nous and man management than Spurs who have better individual flair and talents. that has been elevated through a high work ethic. They're combining the best of both styles.

 

[GlastonSpur]

And people like Alli, Dembele, Walker or Danny fecking Rose are vastly hampered by Pochettino or what?

Alli played for MK Dons, the other 3 were average bordering laughing stocks for most of their careers, what exactly are you trying to imply?

Walker was voted Young Player of the Year by his fellow professionals, ahead of the likes of Aguero and Bale. He's also been named in a Premier League's Team of the Year. If that's a "laughing stock", then clearly you will laugh at everything.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Cheers.

Some players can only play well under certain managers or within certain systems. Sticking Messi in a Tony Pulis side isn't going to play to his strengths.

Godín, Luís and Gabi have all greatly benefited from Simeone's management. Hell, even Torres is seeing an improvement in his game.

Weird how you mention players needing specific systems and then take the name of arguably the best player to have played the game.

Atletico don't have these supposed 'specific' players anymore than other top teams do. Luis is regardless of system, along with Marcelo, the best left back in the game. Just because Mourinho barely played him and he went back to AM doesn't mean he inherently just needs AM to work anymore than Kane or other Spurs players need Spurs to work.

Godin is just a beast of a defender. He'd be the PL's best CB.

And Spurs' players benfit from Pochettino as did Barca's from Pep. If someone has reached great heights under Simeone and are better than their Spurs counterparts, then they're just better players now. Noone says "Queresma was as good as Ronaldo. He just didn't work under SAF and hence benefit from his management."

 

[dirkey]

Not so. If you want to take just the last 3 seasons including this one for both clubs, then Spurs have finished above United in two of them. And in any case, you're ignoring the other trends ... trends that collectively show that the composition of the top 4 clubs of the previous Prem era has changed significantly in recent years.

So now .. you're comparing the last 3 years as United against Spurs, as opposed to as Spurs against Spurs previous 3 years, and United against United's previous 3? Again changing the "trend" to suit your point.

2016: Leicester, Spurs, City, Arsenal (2 changes from previous year)
2015: Chelsea, City, Arsenal, United (1 change from previous year)
2014: City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal (1 change from previous year)
2013: United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal (1 change from previous year)
2012: City, United, Arsenal, Spurs (1 change from previous year)
2011: United, Chelsea, City, Arsenal (1 change from previous year)
2010: Chelsea, Arsenal, United, Spurs (1 change from previous year)
2009: United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal

So ... changed significantly? 1 change every year ... bar this year? I'm assuming the last 8 seasons of the prem is what you mean by recent. Your points are ludicrous.

 

[Kostur]

Walker was voted Young Player of the Year by his fellow professionals, ahead of the likes of Aguero and Bale. He's also been named in a Premier League's Team of the Year. If that's a "laughing stock", then clearly you will laugh at everything.

Scott Parker was FWA's Footballer of the year and got into the same TOTY as Walker. Still wouldn't call him anything other than average and Walker has been a laughing stock probably bar that one season, then I'd call him average just to please you.

 

[Sarni]

Not so. If you want to take just the last 3 seasons including this one for both clubs, then Spurs have finished above United in two of them. And in any case, you're ignoring the other trends ... trends that collectively show that the composition of the top 4 clubs of the previous Prem era has changed significantly in recent years.

OK, it actually makes more sense now that you take 3 season. I agree, in the last 3 years Spurs have been a better run club. You don't have to be so weird and create weird trends, really.

Top 4 hasn't been a consistent thing anyway.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

First of all, the post had nothing to do with you. Secondly, I do. Thirdly, feck off questioning who I support.

He asked why Spurs are 7 points behind Leicester. Well, in Spain the 4th placed team is 21 points behind the leaders and 20 points off 3rd place. In England, the 4th placed team are only 12 points behind the leaders. The point is that The Premier League has been better overall this season due to the competitive games across all 20 teams bar Villa who are simply gash, yet somehow drew with United and City. That summaries how difficult it is in England and why teams aren't running up 85+ points tallies. There are no easy games anymore. I counter questioned.

Firstly, you're posting on a forum. Be ready for your posts to be replied to when disagreed with. Or don't post at all.

Secondly, I'm not the only one questioning it. Which isn't surprising because noones seen a non Spurs supporting fan rate their squad this highly. Simeone must be Sir Alex, Sir Matt and Pep combined for him to be able to take a team apparently as good as Spurs and make them one of Europe's best sides.

And the PL hasn't been better overall this season. The quality has been poor. The gap is bigger in Spain because they have genuinely brilliant sides at the top as opposed to Leicestor top with Spurs 7 points behind.

 

[finneh]

If we look at a one year trend Leicester are going to win the league and Spurs are going to win feck all. I think we can all agree that the trend of Spurs winning feck all is guaranteed to continue. Because it's a trend.

Isn't that pretty much every year? Which is an actual... You know... Properly consistent trend?

 

[acnumber9]

Isn't that pretty much every year? Which is an actual... You know... Properly consistent trend?

It is but I didn't want the trend to be too harsh.

 

[Kostur]

Isn't that pretty much every year? Which is an actual... You know... Properly consistent trend?

That's not how 'trends' work. You pluck some idiotic number that suits you out of your ass and then claim it's a trend.

 

[Enigma_87]

Not so. If you want to take just the last 3 seasons including this one for both clubs, then Spurs have finished above United in two of them. And in any case, you're ignoring the other trends ... trends that collectively show that the composition of the top 4 clubs of the previous Prem era has changed significantly in recent years.

And United have finished 20 times above Spurs in the last 22 years. This is what you can call a trend when the excerpt is big enough to make a judgement. 2 points on a chart is not a trend.

 

[Kraftwerker]

Not so. If you want to take just the last 3 seasons including this one for both clubs, then Spurs have finished above United in two of them. And in any case, you're ignoring the other trends ... trends that collectively show that the composition of the top 4 clubs of the previous Prem era has changed significantly in recent years.

I think all this shows is that top 4 can and will change a lot, and Spurs are by no means immune from that, as shown by only being in the CL once in the last 3 years. The club seems to follow a boom-bust kind of cycle with little consistency in league position.

Everyone has their work cut out getting CL football these days. Spurs have little room for error, with finances curtailed from the stadium build and up against a field of 6-7 strong teams who have mostly already done the hard yards for a stadium (or been handed one for free). You pretty much need to get all the big decisions right.

Ultimately, the margins are pretty tight between success and failure. Even this season with Spurs having one of their best seasons in memory, and United one of their worst, it's not unlikely that United will finish just a handful of points behind and with a major trophy. Effectively, one of United's worst seasons in memory would be better than anything Spurs have done for 25 years.

It's a funny old game.

 

[The Purley King]

Glaston as much as I enjoy your trolling I think you need to attend a course in basic statistics.
Keep on though, I wouldn't want that discourage you, it's entertaining.

 

[Revan]

Glaston as much as I enjoy your trolling I think you need to attend a course in basic statistics.
Keep on though, I wouldn't want that discourage you, it's entertaining.

He'll learn central limit theorem and somehow come to the conclusion that Spurs are great and United are shit.

 

[GlastonSpur]

So now .. you're comparing the last 3 years as United against Spurs, as opposed to as Spurs against Spurs previous 3 years, and United against United's previous 3? Again changing the "trend" to suit your point.....

Actually, I was asked to choose a different time frame by Sarni.

Overall, the point is clear: during the recent Prem era, and generally speaking in terms of the league, Chelski have declined, so have Man. Utd and so have Liverpool ... whilst in the upper third of the league Spurs have been the one team that has generally improved, as evidenced by 3 top 4 finishes in the last 6 seasons including this one.

You can try and quibble about it anyway you like, but facts are facts.

 

[GlastonSpur]

And United have finished 20 times above Spurs in the last 22 years. This is what you can call a trend when the excerpt is big enough to make a judgement. 2 points on a chart is not a trend.

Again, it's not just about United. And it's not about the last 22 years - it's about the recent Prem era leading into the present day. I've cited the last 6 seasons for Spurs and Liverpool, and the last 5 seasons for Chelski. That's a lot more than just 2 trend points.

The basic summary point is given in my post #663 above. It's indisputable.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Again, it's not just about United. And it's not about the last 22 years - it's about the recent Prem era leading into the present day. I've cited the last 6 seasons for Spurs and Liverpool, and the last 5 seasons for Chelski. That's a lot more than just 2 trend points.

The basic summary point is given in my post #663 above. It's indisputable.

While improving you have your best players bought out year after year.. Why is this one any different? Why would Kane, Alli etc stay? Spurs can't afford to keep them. What have you won in the PL era?

Edit: 1 league cup... Hard not to improve

 

[WhoDaGOAT]

Weird how you mention players needing specific systems and then take the name of arguably the best player to have played the game.

Atletico don't have these supposed 'specific' players anymore than other top teams do. Luis is regardless of system, along with Marcelo, the best left back in the game. Just because Mourinho barely played him and he went back to AM doesn't mean he inherently just needs AM to work anymore than Kane or other Spurs players need Spurs to work.

Godin is just a beast of a defender. He'd be the PL's best CB.

And Spurs' players benfit from Pochettino as did Barca's from Pep. If someone has reached great heights under Simeone and are better than their Spurs counterparts, then they're just better players now. Noone says "Queresma was as good as Ronaldo. He just didn't work under SAF and hence benefit from his management."

Marcelo is terrible. He's awful. If you're not trolling me, I'm deeply concerned.

Godín would not be the best defender in England. Not a chance. At Mourinho's Chelsea or the current Leicester side, he'd fit right in. Not a chance he's the same defender for Pep's future City or the current LvG United. I think he'd struggle in Arsenal's system as well.

 

[Enigma_87]

Actually, I was asked to choose a different time frame by Sarni.

Overall, the point is clear: during the recent Prem era, and generally speaking in terms of the league, Chelski have declined, so have Man. Utd and so have Liverpool ... whilst in the upper third of the league Spurs have been the one team that has generally improved, as evidenced by 3 top 4 finishes in the last 6 seasons including this one.

You can try and quibble about anyway you like, but facts are facts.

I don't know if you are just gone fishing or believing in this stuff.

Chelsea are the reigning PL champions. In the last 7 years(this hasn't finished) they won PL 2 times, 1 second place and 3 3rds. Only one year they were below 3rd(and including this one).

If Chelsea have declined while Spurs generally improved - note this is the first time they will probably finish top 3 since the last 20 years, how big is your excerpt? One season? Half season? And how that is been called a trend?

On that base Leicester should probably win back to back PL titles next year.

 

[GlastonSpur]

That's not how 'trends' work. You pluck some idiotic number that suits you out of your ass and then claim it's a trend.

All the numbers I've cited are from the league table stretching back for anything up to the last 6 years. They are not invented, or plucked out of thin air. The fact that you don't like the numbers doesn't change them.

 

[WhoDaGOAT]

Firstly, you're posting on a forum. Be ready for your posts to be replied to when disagreed with. Or don't post at all.

Secondly, I'm not the only one questioning it. Which isn't surprising because noones seen a non Spurs supporting fan rate their squad this highly. Simeone must be Sir Alex, Sir Matt and Pep combined for him to be able to take a team apparently as good as Spurs and make them one of Europe's best sides.

And the PL hasn't been better overall this season. The quality has been poor. The gap is bigger in Spain because they have genuinely brilliant sides at the top as opposed to Leicestor top with Spurs 7 points behind.

The gap is clearly bigger because the sides outside of the top 7 are pretty weak overall. Villarreal, Sevilla, Bilbao and an underperforming Valencia are the only other teams capable of regularly causing upsets.

You started attacking my credibility during a debate with another member.

You're entitled to your incorrect opinions. Marcelo though. I got a laugh out of that.

 

[Enigma_87]

Again, it's not just about United. And it's not about the last 22 years - it's about the recent Prem era leading into the present day. I've cited the last 6 seasons for Spurs and Liverpool, and the last 5 seasons for Chelski. That's a lot more than just 2 trend points.

The basic summary point is given in my post #663 above. It's indisputable.

Chelski in the last 5 seasons shit on you whatever and however you try to skew the numbers(love how you leave the 6th in which they are champions). In the last 5 seasons - that are done and dusted - they have 1 title, 1 2nd spot, 2 3rds.

That trend is clearly gone off the window right there.

 

[fishfingers15]

For the sake of fairness, you consider the last three seasons between United and Spurs

2012–13 38 21 9 8 66 46 72 5th R4 R4 Europa League QF Top scorer - Gareth Bale 26
2013–14 38 21 6 11 55 51 69 6th R3 QF Europa League Ro16 Top scorer - Emmanuel Adebayor 14
2014–15 38 19 7 12 58 53 64 5th R4 R/U Europa LeagueRo32 Top scorer - Harry Kane31


2012–13 38 28 5 5 86 43 89 1st R6 R4 Champions League – Round of 16 Top scorer - Robin van Persie 30
2013–14 38 19 7 12 64 43 64 7th R3 SF Winners Champions League – QF Top Scorer - Wayne Rooney 19
2014–15 38 20 10 8 62 37 70 4th R6 R2 Wayne Rooney 14

feck off back to where you came from Glaston, consider this season and if and when you finish above us, you've finished 2 ahead and we've finished 2 ahead.

Please change this guy's tagline to 'Trendster'

 

[Revan]

Marcelo is terrible. He's awful. If you're not trolling me, I'm deeply concerned.

Godín would not be the best defender in England. Not a chance. At Mourinho's Chelsea or the current Leicester side, he'd fit right in. Not a chance he's the same defender for Pep's future City or the current LvG United. I think he'd struggle in Arsenal's system as well.

Name a defender in EPL who is anywhere near as good as Godin.

I think that Marcelo would have been world class if he wasn't completely stupid.

 

[Enigma_87]

All the numbers I've cited are from the league table stretching back for anything up to the last 6 years. They are not invented, or plucked out of thin air. The fact that you don't like the numbers doesn't change them.

OK let's see.

Last 6 years Chelsea/Spurs

Chelsea:
09/10 - 1st
10/11 - 2nd
11/12 - 6th
12/13 - 3rd
13/14 - 3rd
14/15 - 1st

Years top 3 - 5/6. 2 titles.

Spurs:
09/10 - 4th
10/11 - 5th
11/12 - 4th
12/13 - 5th
13/14 - 6th
14/15 - 5th

Years top 3 - 0. 0 Titles.

You have finished one year above Chelsea in the table.

So there's your trend. Progress.

 

[fishfingers15]

How is this for a trend Glaston? Let's take the three years like you suggested

1) Spurs haven't played in Champs LEague for the last 3 years. UInited have played for 2 seasons.
2) Spurs haven't finished once Top 4 in the last 3 seasons, United have finished twice in that period.
3) United have outscored Spurs in all three seasons and have conceded less than Spurs in the same period

Take an outlier season for you and come here and argue like a wanker like as if you've discovered a trend and keep shouting it's 'undisputable' or 'gospel truth' will only make you a WUM and an idiot. All due respect.

 

[Revan]

OK let's see.

Last 6 years Chelsea/Spurs

Chelsea:
09/10 - 1st
10/11 - 2nd
11/12 - 6th
12/13 - 3rd
13/14 - 3rd
14/15 - 1st

Years top 3 - 5/6. 2 titles.

Spurs:
09/10 - 4th
10/11 - 5th
11/12 - 4th
12/13 - 5th
13/14 - 6th
14/15 - 5th

Years top 3 - 0. 0 Titles.

You have finished one year above Chelsea in the table.

So there's your trend. Progress.

But if you randomly look at two years for Chelsea (lets say 11/12 and 15/16) and randomly choose three years for Spurs (lets say 09/10, 11/12 and 15/16) you see that Spurs finished in top 4 three times, while Chelsea finished in top 4, zero times. You generalize it by the law of large numbers and come to the conclusion that Spurs are much better than Chelsea.

Glastatistics.

 

[SteveJ]

Mystic Glaston's projections for Spurs' rosey, sunshine-blessed future, complete with bluebirds landing on Poch's shoulders kind of jars with his Fall of the House of Usher scenarios for United. Reads to me more like wishful thinking than 'facts'.

 

[GlastonSpur]

I don't know if you are just gone fishing or believing in this stuff.

Chelsea are the reigning PL champions. In the last 7 years(this hasn't finished) they won PL 2 times, 1 second place and 3 3rds. Only one year they were below 3rd(and including this one).

If Chelsea have declined while Spurs generally improved - note this is the first time they will probably finish top 3 since the last 20 years, how big is your excerpt? One season? Half season? And how that is been called a trend?

On that base Leicester should probably win back to back PL titles next year.

All this doesn't change the fact that Chelsea have dropped out of the top 4 twice in the last 5 years, including this year. It doesn't really matter that Chelski, for a few more days or weeks are the reigning champions. The questions is: have Chelski over the last 5 years been as strong in the league as they generally were prior to 5 years ago? The answer is clearly no.

And if I had to predict now, without knowing which clubs will buy or sell which players, whether they'll be in the top 4 next season, I'd predict they won't be. Instead I'd predict that the top 4 will be Man. City, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool, in no particular order. But I reserve the right to adjust that prediction as the transfer window draws to a close.

I've already said that the period in question for Spurs is the last 6 years - we've finished in the top 4 three times during that period, which is clearly an improvement compared to our previous 6 years. It's plain silly to try and argue otherwise.

 

[fishfingers15]

But if you randomly look at two years for Chelsea (lets say 11/12 and 15/16) and randomly choose three years for Spurs (lets say 09/10, 11/12 and 15/16) you see that Spurs finished in top 4 three times, while Chelsea finished in top 4, zero times. You generalize it by the law of large numbers and come to the conclusion that Spurs are much better than Chelsea.

Glastatistics.

Who considers the current season that hasn't completed for trend analysis with previous seasons? Our glaston does. It would be fecking fantastic if Spurs implode in the last three games and pick up no points. Won't worry Glaston though, he'll only consider 35 games in his analysis and reason that the season was 'dead' for Spurs and the last three shouldn't count anyway.

 

[Revan]

Mystic Glaston's projections for Spurs' rosey, sunshine-blessed future, complete with bluebirds landing on Poch's shoulders kind of jars with his Fall of the House of Usher scenarios for United. Reads to me more like wishful thinking than 'facts'.

That's because you don't understand the trends.

 

[Revan]

All this doesn't change the fact that Chelsea have dropped out of the top 4 twice in the last 5 years, including this year. It doesn't really matter that Chelski, for a few more days or weeks are the reigning champions. The questions is: have Chelski over the last 5 years been as strong in the league as they generally were prior to 5 years ago? The answer is clearly no.

And if I had to predict now, without knowing which clubs will buy or sell which players, whether they'll be in the top 4 next season, I'd predict they won't be. Instead I'd predict that the top 4 will be Man. City, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool, in no particular order. But I reserve the right to adjust that prediction as the transfer window draws to a close.

I've already said that the period in question for Spurs is the last 6 years - we've finished in the top 4 three times during that period, which is clearly an improvement compared to our previous 6 years. It's plain silly to try and argue otherwise.

You're sure you didn't make a typo here?