I don't reject the Flynn story. I do reject the Pence part of it. Maddow obviously doesn't have a clue about how chaotic a transition is and how much information gets lost in the shuffle. And that's for a normal transition with normal professionals running it. This one, with the likes of Bannon, Kushner, Priebus, Conway et al is even less organized than that.
The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
- Status
I don't reject the Flynn story. I do reject the Pence part of it. Maddow obviously doesn't have a clue about how chaotic a transition is and how much information gets lost in the shuffle. And that's for a normal transition with normal professionals running it. This one, with the likes of Bannon, Kushner, Priebus, Conway et al is even less organized than that.
I have a hard time believing the Trump campaign, who were in cahoots with the Russians, would take the time to vet who was on their campaign. In the case of Flynn, he was a surrogate well before any sort of official vetting process would've been undertaken and was simply grandfathered in as a trusted/loyal supporter who would be rewarded with the NSA role. It was up to Flynn to reveal his connections with Turkey and he didn't do it.
If that were the case, Pence et al. are still to blame for not properly vetting an individual who would go on to sit in on national security briefings.
Also, Flynn's lawyers did disclose the information about Turkey to the Trump transition team. They did nothing with it.
So basically it is either Pence knew and is lying (as Maddow said), or the Transition team didn't even attempt to do one of the most important aspects of the job.
I'm not sure which one I think is worse.
That's no excuse for them missing the Flynn/Russia links...it's either gross incompetence or downright corruption.
That's exactly the story multiple outlets are running. Unless they're all bitter gays.
Her segment wasn't about the Russia links, it was about Flynn and Turkey and Pence maybe knowing about it (or so she claims). Sloppy innuendo at best.
Or the most realistic option of all, Flynn simply lied about everything. He didn't register as a foreign agent and claimed his activities with Turkey were behind him. Other than that there wasn't much vetting to be done as he was a recently retired general with a top secret security clearance (still active).
Do we know if Trump still thinks (publicly) that Flynn should've stayed on?
Why are you ignoring that Elijah Cummings sent Pence a letter (reported by multiple sources) or that Flynn's lawyers informed the Transition team (reported by multiple sources)?
You seem to be doing what you're accusing Maddow of on this story.
He's maintained that Flynn did nothing wrong and blames the media for it.
I'm taking the Cummings letter into account. Flynn could've easily said his Turkey lobbying was behind him and everyone moved on.
Come to think of it, has Pence even acknowledged receiving (and reading) such a letter ? Sounds a bit suspect.
Even after the foreign agent stuff?
The AP's story on this gives some more detail...
https://apnews.com/789224e9049b407eaa6b1724eeac82af/Trump-team-was-told-Flynn-might-need-to-register
https://apnews.com/789224e9049b407eaa6b1724eeac82af/Trump-team-was-told-Flynn-might-need-to-register
There was nothing wrong with Flynn's prior consulting work for a Turkish company. What was wrong was that he apparently downplayed or concealed it, which when juxtaposed against his other antics (lying to Pence about not talking to the Russian Ambassador about lifting sanctions) shows a lot of deceit. Apparently deceit internal deceit within the Trump ranks is not ok.
Last edited:
Wow.....
There has to be something he knows. Why ask him to stay on and then weeks later dump him?
Would this have any bearing on appeals to the travel ban?
No that's Washington and Hawaii who are challenging those. I'm sure more states will eventually join in.
I mean firing all of these across the country. And Wisconsin put a temporary stay on it this morning.
No, those are attorney generals filing the lawsuits. They are elected not appointed.
Just announced he has just been fired.
Isn't Bharara the man currently heading the prosecution of that mexican drug lord?
Firing him with no one to replace him seems downright criminal.
Firing him with no one to replace him seems downright criminal.
Nothing, other than make him a bit of a political martyr since Trump told him in November he could stay. His stature is pretty legendary since he was the guy who went after all kinds of people from politicians to wall street. Now that he's no longer in the government, he's free to hit the talk shows and trash Drumpf all he wants.
So we can expect a few "BAD (OR SICK) FAILING PREET LOSER LYING SAD!" tweets then.
Probably not (although you never know with Trump), since he doesn't want to deal with the blowback of a mass sacking of US attorneys. He would prefer instead to bask in the jobs number from yesterday.
When this guy is telling his tale in great detail on talk shows, there's no way Trump won't react though surely?
Preet doesn't mess about. He wrecked Pokerstars and full tilt just because he felt like it.
It sure was about the Russia links. According to the WH Flynn was fired because he lied to Pence about talking about sanctions with the Russians. The attorney general briefed the WH about what was actually said in the Flynn-Russia conversations (because they were for unknown reasons listening in on the calls) three weeks prior to him being fired, so exactly how incompetent must the entire US government be if that sort of information does not, at all, reach Trump&co? It's Trump's national security advisor talking to Russia about sanctions, so it's hardly something minor. Yet they were apparently not made aware until several news organizations started reporting on it three weeks later?... yeah right.
It's very hard to defend all this, especially when you have several sources who claim that they specifically told the head of the transition team (Pence) about it as well. If you think it was all compiled just to fill a news segment then you must have misinterpreted the story.
If the issue was established both by congress and by Flynn's lawyers, in writing and in conversation, then Pence & co. either had a responsibility to properly investigate the current status of his lobbying for another country's government and failed to do so, or they knew the full story and decided they didn't care. The evidence coming through so far all seems to suggest that the latter is true. Given Pence has lied multiple times about Flynn and the Russian connection now, I don't see what he's done to earn your defence on this subject. It's possible Flynn lied when he was asked about it but you seem to be ruling out the alternative possibility altogether with no real justification why.
Let's go with the theory that Flynn did lie about everything to Pence - about his ongoing political lobbying and about whether sanctions were discussed - and Pence did happen to fail to see the letter from congress and didn't happen to pick up on it when it was pointed out by his lawyers. What draws you to that conclusion? Why is Flynn the liar and Pence the incompetent fool, and not the other way around? Even if you go along with that, the question still remains that when Yates pointed out that Flynn was lying, there was a significant time lapse between that and any action taken. So it then comes back to them being somehow ignorant, incompetent when faced with an obvious decision or acting with a more sinister motive. You can't lay it all on Flynn.
I agree with you on Maddow. She's smarmy and self-indulgent and the nature of her segment inevitably leads to her padding things out with a lot of filler and a lot of overhyped drama, but there is some good investigate journalism in there that you're glossing over for no good reason. It's explicitly angled to tell a certain side of the story but that doesn't invalidate everything contained within it.
good post @Brwned .
I agree with most of it. I'm willing to bet Flynn lied to everyone and was generally sloppy about thinking about the ramifications of conflicts of interest. Pence imo, was an unwitting victim of Flynn's deception which completely makes sense in terms of Trump dismissing him after they found out he lied. If this was the Obama administration, they would've vetted their NSA and found any conflicts of interest before appointing him. Trump has been sloppy.
I agree with most of it. I'm willing to bet Flynn lied to everyone and was generally sloppy about thinking about the ramifications of conflicts of interest. Pence imo, was an unwitting victim of Flynn's deception which completely makes sense in terms of Trump dismissing him after they found out he lied. If this was the Obama administration, they would've vetted their NSA and found any conflicts of interest before appointing him. Trump has been sloppy.
He is so ignorant he doesn't even know what a president can do.
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...etap-phone-illegal-watergate-fbi-accuse-comey
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...etap-phone-illegal-watergate-fbi-accuse-comey
It's pretty obvious he was fired because of the reporting on the matter, not because of what actually happened - which is evident by the fact that Trump and his mouthpieces are on the record as saying "Flynn did nothing wrong and media has treated him badly". The whole "oh, his sin was lying to Pence" doesn't make sense on any level whatsoever and contradicts everything else the Trump team have said and done on the matter.
The administrations reasoning on Flynn is about as consistent as their insistence that the leaks are lies, and the leakers have to punished.
There's the reason he was fired so bluntly then.
Absolutely incomprehensible that someone can fire the judge who is overseeing their own case.
If this is true then this needs to be front page news everywhere. If Putin did this we'd all be going mental.
Dude from the Daily Beast just dropped a minor bombshell on CNN. Apparently Preet just had a chat with Sessions two days ago and was told he was staying. He also said Preet was looking into something at FoxNews related to Aisles (who is best pals with Trump).
- Status