the biggest single threat to the vaccination programme - and by extension to eventual recovery - is public mistrust. Politicians and leaders have to take it. If there is a risk to the vaccine (and there will be at best a tiny one, as there is with anything) they have to share it. Just the way it is.
The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
the biggest single threat to the vaccination programme - and by extension to eventual recovery - is public mistrust. Politicians and leaders have to take it. If there is a risk to the vaccine (and there will be at best a tiny one, as there is with anything) they have to share it. Just the way it is.
Yeah, it's part of the explicit public health strategy. Whether or not we like it, it is undeniably the case that "influencers" - whether they're politicians, musicians or just popular social media figures - have an outsized effect on people's perceptions at this moment. There are large segments of the population that will be swayed to get the vaccine by seeing people they trust and agree with getting it. The CDC have explicitly said that. It is not the only way to influence people but there's good reason to believe that it's one of the most effective ways to influence a large number of people that need that influence to enable the vaccination campaign to succeed.
@JPRouve: I found out more about the different between the EU and UK assessment of the Pfizer vaccine, in case you're still interested. (I figured this goes here rather than in the Brexit; although it may have been covered by others in the meantime.)
So: there is an emergency protocol, which can be used to push the vaccine through more quickly. The validation of the producers' trials is the same, but less is required of the roll-out. A full and proper process would result in a 'permanent' permit to market the medication, meaning that the usual full medical information and instructions are provided with the medication, and that there are full contingency and follow-up plans. (For the vaccines, this concerns e.g. testing on groups that have not had enough exposure during the trials so far, like kids and pregnant women.) For the emergency procedure, only the trials are validated, and a temporary emergency permit is issued to market the relevant medication, with limitations based on the limitations of the trial. The other bit (full information/instructions and follow-up plans) isn't required just go get the product to market ASAP - but that also means that a full assessment process will be required again later on, once the missing information has become available.
The consequence, then, is that the EU took a little longer now, but has the vaccine more firmly in place, so to speak; while places like the UK and Canada were able to start vaccinating earlier, but will have more work left to do later on, e.g. when data on children and pregnant women becomes available.
I'm probably making some errors in terminology and details here (I'm doing this from memory based on something I read last week; kept forgetting to post it), but that's the gist of it.
So: there is an emergency protocol, which can be used to push the vaccine through more quickly. The validation of the producers' trials is the same, but less is required of the roll-out. A full and proper process would result in a 'permanent' permit to market the medication, meaning that the usual full medical information and instructions are provided with the medication, and that there are full contingency and follow-up plans. (For the vaccines, this concerns e.g. testing on groups that have not had enough exposure during the trials so far, like kids and pregnant women.) For the emergency procedure, only the trials are validated, and a temporary emergency permit is issued to market the relevant medication, with limitations based on the limitations of the trial. The other bit (full information/instructions and follow-up plans) isn't required just go get the product to market ASAP - but that also means that a full assessment process will be required again later on, once the missing information has become available.
The consequence, then, is that the EU took a little longer now, but has the vaccine more firmly in place, so to speak; while places like the UK and Canada were able to start vaccinating earlier, but will have more work left to do later on, e.g. when data on children and pregnant women becomes available.
I'm probably making some errors in terminology and details here (I'm doing this from memory based on something I read last week; kept forgetting to post it), but that's the gist of it.
I'd be curious to know the anti-vaxxer rate in the at-risk segment. I think we're in a bit of a "no atheists in foxholes" moment, and I am curious to know if there are that many people 60+ who'd refuse the vaccine.
Judging by how few people over 70 were wearing a mask at the supermarket today I'd say there will be a few.
And the most important thing is that we get as close to 100% of people vaccinated as possible irrespective of demographic.
There’s two big factors to consider there. The first is that America is a relatively old and unhealthy nation. 53m people 65+ and an incredible 100m people at risk, according to CDC analysis. So just due to the sheer number of people it would be very unlikely that millions of the vaccine hesitant people don’t overlap with those groups. It’s also the case that vaccine hesitancy among the black population has been substantially higher for a long, long time for very legitimate reasons, and they also are more likely to have some of the health conditions putting them at risk.
The other thing is there has been a lot of data collected on the subject all saying essentially the same thing. Vaccine hesitancy has fallen as the likelihood of a highly effective vaccine has gone up, and people most at risk of the virus are most likely to take it. But there are still a substantial proportion of people in those groups that say they wouldn’t take it. Donald Trump so far seems to be the poster boy of that, and people will follow his lead, guaranteed. This is the best data on it:
https://www.pewresearch.org/science...n-research-and-development-process-increases/
It’s a pure trend from a properly random sample of the populations and a large sample size. The problem is the only data you can get on intent to do something comes from surveys, and self reported data on intent to do things is inherently unreliable. We are bad at predicting our choices in situations that still feel quite distant from us. But if you accept the general pattern rather than the specificity of the data, a good chunk of 65+ are not sure they will take the vaccine when offered.
How many does ordered for Oxford vaccine again? I assume that's the one that can be stored at fridge like temperatures?
Think a things stand that's the most realistic new year boost we can get.
Think a things stand that's the most realistic new year boost we can get.
I think it's around 100m. And they've been in mass production for a while, so roll out would be rapid.
Reports today that Oxford one is going to be approved this week
This crisis could have been in its final stages if people had done as they were advised, as they did in Singapore. But all the snowflakes, nutters and conspiracy theory loons hijacked this and we are where we are. It’s not been taken seriously by too many people. I am in the ‘vulnerable’ category and have been bricking it since March. I know people that have had it and still suffer, fit as butchers dog people reduced to a wreck. I heard that all the vaccine at Macclesfield hospital was ruined when the freezers broke down and they didn’t have a back up freezer! The Zeneca vaccine should be available soon so roll on the New Year.
This New Year’s Eve will feel a lot different than most. Can’t wait!
Cheers mate, that would be huge.
Submission went in to the MHRA today.
It doesn’t fill me with a lot of optimism for our country. For the U.K. it makes sense as the population can be vaccinated quicker. India is too big to be targeting reduction in transmission by vaccinating a major percentage. The only thing it can help is reduce the probability of infection for the elderly by 62 percent. It’s something but in absolute terms the CFR is still too high for the elderly. Don’t feel like it helps us a lot unless more data is produced that shows the gains in CFR are bigger than 62 percent but I think they’re some way from getting significant data on that. The USA trial readouts in q1 should shed some light.
62% is just the reduction in symptomatic infections. Someone can probably find the data, but I think that AZ, as well as the 2 mRNA vaccines, had 0 serious cases in their vaccine arms, and if that plays out during rollout, that'll be huge.
Arcturus Therapeutics is developing a one dose vaccines. Think they are in phase 3 of testing, but not entirely sure
I've managed to convince 3 colleagues in the past few days to sign up for and get the vaccine.
Just goes to emphasise imo that being a general anti vaxxer is not the same as being a bit worried about the covid vaccine specifically and that people, including on here, should perhaps temper their approach slightly when discussing this topic.
Had my first jab yesterday and other than a very heavy arm, feeling fine (so far!).
Can't wait for the second one.
Just goes to emphasise imo that being a general anti vaxxer is not the same as being a bit worried about the covid vaccine specifically and that people, including on here, should perhaps temper their approach slightly when discussing this topic.
Had my first jab yesterday and other than a very heavy arm, feeling fine (so far!).
Can't wait for the second one.
Good man.
Strongly agree with this.
Going in all guns blazing against anyone who isn’t keen on taking the vaccine just entrenches things further.
Sadly there will always be a few who will never be convinced but getting accusatory never tends to help.
I wish I could get my mum vaccinated. She's only 68 so unlikely to happen in the next few months but 90% of my worrying would end immediately once she's jabbed.
Take the dates with a pinch of salt, but this might give an broad indication of when your Mum could be vaccinated. A lot of water under the bridge to go though.
Good on you, bud
Good man.
I met a friend for the first-time in a few years recently. A career academic biologist with a primary publication list a mile long and she was not totally convinced that the vaccine hadn't been rushed. We discussed it and I gave her some of the best links from these threads and she is now all good with it. You can't even assume that someone so driven by science hasn't been influenced by the storm of information and misinformation about covid vaccines and/or is as well informed outside their expertise as they are inside it.
The bit that particularly convinced her was the distinction between log term side effects and side effects that are so rare that only a vaccine roll out reveals them.
And one of the strengths (and weaknesses) of a place like this is that you can engage in debates more vigorously than you would in real life.
Thanks, this is very useful. It estimates a million vaccinations a week. So does that imply that roughly 2 million of the most vulnerable people have already been done in the UK? That should see death figures (currently rising toward 1000 a day again) falling off of a cliff in the next few weeks?
Latest numbers are that 600k have been done so far .This Pfizer vaccine is obviously hard to use so things should speed up once Oxford one gets approved
Its about 600k as @Ayush_reddevil said, we’ll see an acceleration of numbers in January as the Oxford vaccine should be approved on the 28th of December. The logistics on that vaccine means it can accelerate into care homes and GPs due to the storage requirements.
January might be horrific for deaths if I’m honest, and I don’t think we’ll see any effect of the death rate declining before the 2nd week of January, off the basis of tier 4 being implemented a week ago.
I am late on the news here, where did you read the approval for the Oxford vaccine is for 28th? And by this do you mean Astra Zenica?
Yes, that’s the one. A lot of news outlets are reporting 28th/29th (Guardian, Independent, Evening Standard).
Ah nice one. Thanks
If I were one of your 3 colleagues, I would have told you " It's none of your business"They probably asked him? Or it came up in conversation? It’s none of your business what him and his colleagues discuss....
Good for him for simply directing people to sources that demonstrate why the vaccine is fine to have.
I also completely agree with the poster that conflating people who have concerns about the vaccine and anti vaxxers isn’t helpful as it’s okay to be nervous about it! Handling that nervousness with education and understanding is crucial.
Has The Queen had the vaccine yet?
Did he submit a post on a public forum? Yes
Did I ask about what he and his colleagues discussed? No
Is he in a position to "educate" people on health as you suggest? Please allow me to be sceptical.
Pure intellectual honesty is to talk about pros and cons, not just choose some sources that suit an agenda.
Fairly sure Africanspur is a doctor, so yes, he is indeed in a position to educate people on health
Merry Christmas bro, not arguing about the validity of a safe vaccine today. Have a good one.
Thanks, fair enough. My point is that I don't expect colleagues to educate me, but my doctor
Merry Christmas bro.
I don't have any views about it, really - just think that time will tell the truth.
Have a good one buddy!Thanks, fair enough. My point is that I don't expect colleagues to educate me, but my doctor
Merry Christmas bro.
I don't have any views about it, really - just think that time will tell the truth.
Agree with the above that I'm also pretty sure he's a doctor, and that makes it a pretty valid topic for him to discuss with colleagues. Being doctors and all.Thanks, fair enough. My point is that I don't expect colleagues to educate me, but my doctor
Not sure why you're going in all guns blazing and on the attack for no reason, especially today of all days.
But yes, as others have said, I am a doctor (with some experience in both infectious diseases and public health, albeit both a looong time ago now) and the conversation came up organically at work amongst the group and was a very light hearted conversation. Unsurprisingly in a London hospital, where we are currently looking after Covid patients, the vaccine comes up in conversation.
Despite working in a hospital, lots of misconceptions abound about vaccines or about this one in particular, from ward clerks, healthcare assistants, porters and also nurses and doctors too.
Nobody took any offence at all. There were others who wanted to wait for another few months and that's totally their choice too.
Merry Christmas, hope you've had a nice day.
I agree, even those working in the medical profession can get taken in by all the anti vaxxer propaganda doing the rounds. A nurse I know who actually worked at the covid wards came home claiming it's just the flu. I had to educate her that she was looking at the field hospitals where they isolated asymptomatic patients. Of course she saw no one dying. She should take a visit to ICUs and see how patients on ventilators are.
Later on she came back and started talking about how the vaccine is poison and how it wasn't safe because it was rushed. Or how it was useless because flu vaccines are useless. I had to go another round about how the covid 19 is not the flu, vaccine safety, etc with her all over again.
Later on she came back and started talking about how the vaccine is poison and how it wasn't safe because it was rushed. Or how it was useless because flu vaccines are useless. I had to go another round about how the covid 19 is not the flu, vaccine safety, etc with her all over again.
Thanks for your message.
No offense intended: in some way, I am just a defender of individual liberties
Merry Christmas and all the best