Now this seems completely over the top.
The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Now this seems completely over the top.
Interesting. I'm going to head over to the local vaccination area in my part of London at 5pm (end of shift) to see if I can get vaccinated on any unused jabs. If this news is gathering momentum seems like I might get lucky.
My mum got the AZ last month. For the past few years she has been diagnosed with fatty liver and compromised platelet production. She's fine, didn't even feel a little ill.
already had my anti-vax brother messaging me about this, it’s like they’re happy about the news. Twitter is full of it today aswell.
Awful day today in terms of AZ cancellations from concerned patients and family members after all the news recently.
Incidentally my dad called me from canada yesterday as he was due the AZ vaccine. I told him to go ahead. And have mentioned same to my patients.
Its a tough one because I dont know if this is a batch/contamination issue but essentially came to the decision after speaking to wife's best friend who is a haematology registrar and works in DVT/pulmonary embolism first episode clinics. She said that their incidence for clots recently after vaccination if anything has gone down, certainly not increase.
Also a friend who works as an ED consultant, asked him about any more than usual amount of pulmonary emboli, deep vein thrombosis, blood hemorrhages coming through the door and he said no.
Don't forget we do have a scheme for reporting adverse events. And all medics (GPs but also outpatients) report pretty much anything that could be termed an adverse effect post-vaccination via the MHRA's Yellow Card Scheme (a huge pain but necessary) so that if there is anything sinister so we can spot trends which is available below. Looked at that, and when you compare it to sheer number of vaccines given vs chance of those events occurring without vaccines, I just wasn't convinced. And its all available to view here anyone interested
https://assets.publishing.service.g...VID-19_AstraZeneca_Vaccine_Analysis_Print.pdf
Incidentally my dad called me from canada yesterday as he was due the AZ vaccine. I told him to go ahead. And have mentioned same to my patients.
Its a tough one because I dont know if this is a batch/contamination issue but essentially came to the decision after speaking to wife's best friend who is a haematology registrar and works in DVT/pulmonary embolism first episode clinics. She said that their incidence for clots recently after vaccination if anything has gone down, certainly not increase.
Also a friend who works as an ED consultant, asked him about any more than usual amount of pulmonary emboli, deep vein thrombosis, blood hemorrhages coming through the door and he said no.
Don't forget we do have a scheme for reporting adverse events. And all medics (GPs but also outpatients) report pretty much anything that could be termed an adverse effect post-vaccination via the MHRA's Yellow Card Scheme (a huge pain but necessary) so that if there is anything sinister so we can spot trends which is available below. Looked at that, and when you compare it to sheer number of vaccines given vs chance of those events occurring without vaccines, I just wasn't convinced. And its all available to view here anyone interested
https://assets.publishing.service.g...VID-19_AstraZeneca_Vaccine_Analysis_Print.pdf
It's weird. I posted that because I think when you hear her comments it makes everything seem mundane and normal (as indeed it is). Hell, I think it's actually reassuring.
And yet due diligence and normal scientific process is being treated as cause célèbre by people who at other times try and act like their concerns are rooted in scientific rationalism.
It does seem likely that these are either unrelated (just a huge coincidence) or a batch-specific issue. Either way the caution is understandable. It fecking sucks but it also demonstrates that pharmacovigilance is working the way it is supposed to.
Is it possible to choose the vaccine?
Really horrible to think that some people are so up their own arses that the thought of a vaccine possibly having lethal side effects makes them happy because they feel in some way justified to remain incredibly selfish.
Not really. We literally in primary care get one or the other. At very short notice. Many turned down first vaccine when Pfizer was around because they wanted to wait for AZ and contacted their GPs afterwards to book again and it just so happened that majority of vaccines coming in have been AZ now.
But many haven't had their first AZ because they want to "wait" for Pfizer. In the midlands we don't get a lot of Pfizer. So we just ask patients to call reception again from time to time and we do let people know which batch has come through and what we'll be offering. So if you fall into the correct JCVI category you can get yourself booked, even if you've turned down the opportunity to get vaccinated before.
Most pfizer coming in now furthermore will be prioritised for second doses for those who had it as their first too. We've asked for more of it because many are reaching two or three months since their first dose. Myself included, I got my first Pfizer jab in first week of January through the hospital and was due the second next week but appointment cancelled because pfizer shipment delay with no new appointment given so far.
@Wolverine Thanks for the reply
Yeah apparently the batch in question ABV5300 was delivered to 17 EU countries and comprises 1 million doses of the vaccine.
But you're right I think it'll be post-mortem if family permits. The one's who've lived finding a cause via blood work or CT scans should be fairly quick but its a longish process I think. I've seen loads on HRT and the pill have it in young patients, cancer undiagnosed but many are unprovoked.
I suppose checking the batch for contaminants e.g. EDTA will happen too.
It was inevitable really, there was talk on here months back that once trials and vaccine roll out started any deaths that occur anyway would be tagged against the vaccines.
Hopefully there's nothing to it and people quickly regain trust.
Hopefully there's nothing to it and people quickly regain trust.
No chance I’m getting this. 0%
Which one?
Oxford. Which is the only one they are offering.
I would have thought a low platelet count would make one less likely to have a blood clot not more.
Probably a good time to mention I'm a railwayman and not a doctor.
Probably a good time to mention I'm a railwayman and not a doctor.
Germany, France and Italy have now put a total stop on the AZ vaccine rollout, pending an EMA review to take place tomorrow. It's no longer batch specific as there have been a few different ones now and they are concerned that it could be something in the manufacturing process.
I think this could be the end of the AZ vaccine in Europe. It was already on shaky ground and nobody is going to want to go near it now.
I think this could be the end of the AZ vaccine in Europe. It was already on shaky ground and nobody is going to want to go near it now.
Data from UK is good in terms of safety and efficacy. In terms of drawing up, giving it, needles, storage, its a dream. Way easier than the mRNA ones to roll out en masse. But public perception and uptake is also important.
Think the WHO has just given it backing. Just announced on BBC that EMA meeting on thursday to look into it and give their opinion too.
You’re not wrong though. The Norwegian death (might be two now?) was due to a bleed in the brain, not a clot.There’s a lot of people talking at cross purposes about this in the scientific community actually. Talking about the number of thromboembolic (i.e. clot related) events when the issue in Norway doesn’t seem to be related to clots, so much as bleeds.
We’re well used to medicines that increase the risk of blood clots (contraceptive pills) but this cluster of cases in Norway are different. Based on what little I can find out about them anyway.
I get the impression you’ve been almost willing this vaccine to fail for a while now. Have you shorted AstraZeneca?!?
I don't think it will be the end of it, but certainly some cautious approach being carried out here.
AZ looks like rat poison
The batch you mention was the one linked to the PEs/DVTs in Austria reviewed by the EMA earlier in the week.
I think that’s confusing a lot of people, who reference incidence of thromboembolic events in the UK when that’s not actually been the issue in Norway.
I read that there are just 37 cases of this - from 17 million people vaccinated. Seems a bit extreme to suspend it surely?
The recent wave of suspensions has been kicked off by just four cases. All in Norway. The problem seems to be they’re all unwell with a very similar, unusual set of symptoms.
The 37 cases you mention are blood clots. Which is less unusual/less serious.
I’m hoping the Noggie regulator is being over-cautious. It was them that got very worried a couple of months back when some extremely elderly people died shortly after being vaccinated. That turned out to be nothing to worry about.
I mean from the public perception standpoint. Even before this roughly 25% of Europeans said they would refuse it for another one. What's that figure going to be now? If half the people turning up for a vaccine are walking away because they don't want it and causing associated logistical headaches, at some point authorities will say enough is enough and switch to other types. By the end of Q3 there will be enough of the other types for the whole EU population.
I get the impression you’ve been almost willing this vaccine to fail for a while now. Have you shorted AstraZeneca?!?
I just think AstraZeneca have made a complete mess of the whole process since Day 1.
If you Europeans don’t want AZ send it on down to us in Africa please
Ok gotcha.
I think I was reading something in BMJ about a potential hypothesis surrounding why covid and possibly associated vaccines might lead to ITP - Immune thrombocytopenia
https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n699/rr-6
I feel for lay people in all this. And families with genuine questions.
Unfortunately this will put a lot of people off having the vaccine - any vaccine.
It was actually kicked off by incidents in Denmark with blood clots after taking the AZ vaccine, which caused the authorities in Norway to pause the vaccination. Then a few days later we have those four incidents reported in Norway. On a brighter note - the health authorities have just now 'exonerated' the vaccine for the fourth incident. They're saying they don't suspect any correlation between the blood clots and taking the vaccine but they're still investigating the first three reported incidents.
120k AZ doses has been given, so far four reported incidents with one already cleared. But the government has asked all those vaccinated to report any side effects so maybe we will see an increase in reported incidents in the coming days since everyone is on high alert now.
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My Mrs has the same. She's been vaccinated and is fine.
I'm not so sure of that. So far it seems that it's only the AZ vaccine that has taken a hit reputation wise. I suspect the fear among the public would grow bigger if those reported incidents covered every vaccine available. I'm just glad that they take this seriously in a time where everyone seems to be desperate for the rollout speed to increase tenfold.
Interesting. Thanks. Good news on the fourth incident.
Does anyone kow the adverse event rate of the Pfizer vaccine?
I refuse to believe there are zero events associated with that vaccine, so why isn't it being reported in the mainstream media?
It needs to be reported fairly so people don't start cancelling vaccines for no good reason.
I refuse to believe there are zero events associated with that vaccine, so why isn't it being reported in the mainstream media?
It needs to be reported fairly so people don't start cancelling vaccines for no good reason.
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I’ve just had a text of my practice to book my first vaccine dose. It’s come completely out of the blue to be honest. I’m 28 and have had some issues with bad coughs / having inhalers when I was younger, But never really a proper diagnosed condition although those coughs did give me a lot of grief when I was younger. Probably goes to show my practice is getting through them now!
Excited to have it!
Excited to have it!
I'll give my GP a call again, I'm 48 and there must be loads of cancellations of the AZ vaccine now. God bless the media.
Think there have been more blood clotting events with the Pfizer than AZ in the UK but they’re still incredibly small numbers, less than what you’d expect in the general population in the absence of a vaccine.
Yes i'd already seen that. Fortunately it's being offset by Pfizer who are delivering much more than anticipated.
It's also been published than the EU has exported 34m doses of the AZ vaccine, with large numbers going to countries that aren't returning the favour. That would have made a big difference to the shortfall.
I was reading about the export disparity as well. You can see why EU countries have a low threshold for blocking some shipments, as Italy recently did. It’s a bit shit the way the two countries racing ahead in the vaccination race are doing so little to supply the rest of the world. That sort of imbalance will only cause them long-term problems anyway.