Amen.
Top 4 race 2016/17
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
why do people want draws? MUFC win, spurs win, hull win and we go 4th.
That'd be absolutely brilliant.
Because a draw is more realistic and is almost as damaging as a loss, I suppose.
Liverpool's problem has never been the games against the top sides so not playing any top side game again is actually good news.
Exactly, specially when you see their latest results against Swansea, Hull and Chelsea.
Why would you want a Spurs win? Provided we win our game, a Spus win would put us 2 points ahead of Liverpool and see us remain 5 behind Spurs. A draw in that game would put us 1 point ahead of Liverpool and see us close the gap with Spurs to 3 points. In both scenarios we overtake a team ahead of us, but the difference between Spurs being 3 or 5 points ahead of us is not insignificant. As long as both teams are within reach, it's always better to gain ground on both instead of just one, unless we're really in the final few games of the season and really need to go up a spot. Or are we judging a 5 point gap with Spurs in early February as insurmountable?
i guess at this point i'd take 4th ASAP and then hope we can open a lead over 5/6th. The table has been so immobile for so many weeks i'd rather open the gap behind us than worry about the one in front.
Considering we have been stuck in 6th and we are on a 15 unbeaten run in the EPL. I don't trust us to maintain winning streaks till the end of the season without a few "draw streaks" occurring in the same period.
How is City's place in top 4 sure? If I were to rate the top 6 on the basis of past 2-3 months performances, it'll be Chelsea - Spurs - United - Arsenal - City - Liverpool; City haven't been good at all - that Jesus kid is good but are City fans really expecting a 19 year old to score in difficult fixtures being new? I'd say apart from Chelsea nobody is assured top-4, not even Spurs.
This makes sense until you look at our fixtures, later in the season we face top-4 right before the end amidst Europa (surely), FA cup fixtures - we need to gain a few on the 5th team.
That's a short term view. A 1 or 2 point lead over Liverpool at this point makes very little difference, they seem to be on a downward spiral anyway so I doubt it matters. However a Spurs draw would put us in a much better position to take advantage if Spurs were to hit a rough time. This obviously requires us to be good enough to take advantage if the opportunity presents itself, but if we aren't, then top 4 is hopeless anyway.
Yes, it's better if we are 4th with a considerable lead over the 5th and 6th teams rather than being even 2nd with a much smaller gap because we have the toughest fixtures in the last month. We play City, Arsenal and Tottenham away along with other tough games.
Would be nice to have the top 4 all wrapped up before our last month of tough fixtures.
Can see us getting top 4, ahead of probably Arsenal and Liverpool. Going to be tough but i'm confident
Can see us getting top 4, ahead of probably Arsenal and Liverpool. Going to be tough but i'm confident
Even if we get top four I'd be shocked if we have it all wrapped up with a month to go. Can see it being quite tight, with a few points in it.
Good post.
First we were rooting for Chelsea to beat Liverpool and now we are rooting for Spurs to beat Liverpool? Are we giving up on catching Spurs? Anyone who thinks so is certainly not being serious??
I never thought I would see the day when UTD fans would think it impossible to make up a few points on Spurs. We are on a 15 match unbeaten run FFS. Fifteen games!!!
The best result possible for UTD in any games between the top six is a draw, every time, 100% of the time. Therefore, out of loyalty to UTD, we should be hoping for a draw (in both this game and Liverpool/Arsenal). I would say that we can just about write off Liverpool now - they have gone into absolute free fall and now face a ridiculously tough run of fixtures. There is nothing that even remotely suggests they can navigate that run without a few more losses. In fact if you look at their fixture list - I can't even think of a single game in which they are going to get an easy 3 points. They have not won a single game in the league in 2017 and also lost to inferior teams in both cups!! Why should we even bother about them?
I never thought I would see the day when UTD fans would think it impossible to make up a few points on Spurs. We are on a 15 match unbeaten run FFS. Fifteen games!!!
The best result possible for UTD in any games between the top six is a draw, every time, 100% of the time. Therefore, out of loyalty to UTD, we should be hoping for a draw (in both this game and Liverpool/Arsenal). I would say that we can just about write off Liverpool now - they have gone into absolute free fall and now face a ridiculously tough run of fixtures. There is nothing that even remotely suggests they can navigate that run without a few more losses. In fact if you look at their fixture list - I can't even think of a single game in which they are going to get an easy 3 points. They have not won a single game in the league in 2017 and also lost to inferior teams in both cups!! Why should we even bother about them?
We really need a 5-6 point lead ahead of 5th and 6th going into our run of games at the end of the season.
The City game still has to be rescheduled as of yet.
The City game still has to be rescheduled as of yet.
Ideally we should be to reduce gap (or overcome it) with all fellow challengers for top 4, and so I would hope for a draw between Liverpool and Spurs. Even if we rule out a late spring by Liverpool, we don't know which amongst City, Arsenal, or Spurs would be our challenger for the 4th position. At the moment it looks like Spurs will be number 2, but its very much possible that they are the ones that lose points going forward while City and Arsenal improve their forms significantly.
They should've put it between Southampton & Middlesbrough in March... but they'll probably have it before the Swansea game.
If we're in the Europa League Semi's it can't be between Arsenal & Spurs at least, though knowing us/The FA, we'll probably get knocked out and they'll put it there anyway.
You can't have it between Soton and Boro because City are playing Monaco in the middle of that week.
form is fleeting though, better to base it on 4 or 5 games not 2 or 3 months, and the last 4 or 5 games even including the humping by Everton, City have, in patches, been excellent and Gabriel Jesus has had a massive impact on the team, confidence after yesterday will be high and with United playing in the EFL final it will also give the players nearly two weeks off with no football which at this time of year is a bonus.
Top 4 isn't guaranteed but it's looking a far bigger possibility now than it did at the start of January, especially now that Bravo has been benched and Kompany is back.
I think it will be at the start of May, just before the Arsenal game as there isn't any chances of Cup replays getting in the way, that would make the United run in interesting...
Yes, we wanted Chelsea to beat Liverpool because us winning the title is fantasy, us getting top four is a priority. In order for the latter to happen, we needed Liverpool to drop out, just as we need Arsenal to do the same. Spurs might drop out, but they're a better side than Liverpool or Arsenal, and so Spurs beating either of those teams is beneficial to us. It's not hard to grasp.
Also, Liverpool's congestion period is over. They have a lot of time to prepare and recover for their upcoming game, and they also boast the best record against the top 6-7 sides in the league. They look like they'll lose all of those games on current form, but a lot will have changed by the time these games are played.
City have a 3 game run at the end of March and early April consisting of:
Liverpool (H)
Arsenal (A)
Chelsea (A)
That will be in and around their CL fixtures too. Pivotal time of the season for them.
Liverpool (H)
Arsenal (A)
Chelsea (A)
That will be in and around their CL fixtures too. Pivotal time of the season for them.
Hope Hull and Spura beat LeArse and Pool respectivelly. Hello top 4.
Yes, only Chelsea and United(
) have consistently stayed in the same league position. The other four teams have been alternating between 2-5 and I don't think anyone will clearly cement the 2nd spot until the last month or so.Yes, only Chelsea and United(
Hopefully will change next week.
Ok, I would (grudgingly) accept and understand if people want to write off our chances of catching Chelsea. But Spurs? Seriously? We are only a few points behind them! This is no time to write off our chances of catching Spurs. Even if you think we should give up on the title, we should not give up on second place. Not only is there more prize money, it also ensures we don't have to play the CL qualifiers, and obviously it is also more prestigious. The mark of a big club is to finish in the top two, not top four. It would give the team a lot of confidence and a platform to make a sustained title challenge next season. There's no way we should give up on catching Spurs. It's Spurs after all FFS!!
As for Liverpool - from the way they're playing, isn't it clear what has happened?? Klopp's one dimensional gegenpressing tactics have left them exhausted and jaded. Their defence is a total shambles and they are just reverting back to where they should be. Their results in the earlier part of the season flattered them, just like UTD's results did not do us justice. Now normality is being resumed and we are seeing Liverpool revert back to where they should rightfully be - losing to Hull, losing to Wolves, losing to Southampton home and away. What reason do we have to believe that they will suddenly go on a winning run and beat Spurs and Arsenal when they couldn't even beat Hull??
Look, Liverpool are a club on the slide, they will lose more points and they could well end up 7th. Utd on the other hand are on an upward momentum swing. We are on the rise. We have become very difficult to beat. Even though we haven't killed opponents off, we have created plenty of chances and we are very very hard to beat. A 15 game unbeaten run is proof of that! It's an actual fact, not a biased fans' view. Which other side has gone on a 15 game unbeaten run? Jose has drilled the team well, and made us one of the most difficult sides to beat!
And now we are starting to see signs of developing a killer instinct. The game against Leicester was an example of this. We killed them within 1-2 minutes, despite playing poorly for 40+ minutes - then, boom, not one but two goals. Game over. We keep doing this and we will be a real bitch for teams to play against.
We do NOT have to worry at all about Liverpool. We should be focusing on finishing as high up the table as possible. Let the other big teams take points off each other with draws (and red cards please). And in addition we need to win trophies. The League Cup final will be a good time to start, and then we need to make a real push to win the EL.
For our fans to worry about Liverpool as we have been doing - it does the club a serious injustice and it is almost an insult to Jose, the players, and Man UTD. We should worry about finishing as high as possible, and not write off anything - and do away with this obsession with catching Liverpool. I guarantee we will finish above them and anyone with common sense can see that. I don't even think it will be one league position that separates us and them in the end.
Because it's a marathon, not a race.
I'd rather be in the top 4 after 38 games than after 25 games. A draw is best for United because it gains us points on both should we win
Because when two rivals above us draw, it means they drop 4-points between them overall, whereas if one wins, only three points are dropped between them overall. This isn't about being in 4th spot next week, it's about being in 4th spot come mid-May. The more teams above us that drop points the better for us in the long-run.
Is that true? Because there were a time we were 9 points off 4th.And during that run Spurs have gained 2 points on you.
EDIT: It isn't true. You have gained no ground during our unbeaten run, nor lost any. From game week 9 when we last lost, you were 5 points ahead of us.
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42 points to play for. We need to get 35-37 points and not worry about anyone else. I think getting 35 points will see us get top 4.
Need to avoid defeat an Anfield, it will be so so important.
That loss at Old Trafford was a killer. We can't repeat that at Anfield.
Getting key injuries (again) at a shocking time though so we'll have to see.
That loss at Old Trafford was a killer. We can't repeat that at Anfield.
Getting key injuries (again) at a shocking time though so we'll have to see.
Do you seriously think we're only gonna drop 7-points between now and May? We've dropped six points in the last three weeks.
I think 76-points is needed for Top 4 this year (it's a lot higher than normal) so we need another 31. I'm not sure we're gonna reach that figure. As far as I see it, it's a race between us and Arsenal now to be honest...one of us two are gonna creep over that dotted line in the last weekend of the campaign.
It'll be in our hands, I'm certain we'll be in the mix by the time the tough fixtures against our top 4 rivals come around. We've performed poorly against the big teams this season but we're capable of beating them all, so who knows.
Dont agree
Chelsea -Yes we were poor
Spurs- We beat em
Arsenal- We were easily the better team, they stole a point
City- We played a good half and had it been for a better referee we would have beaten/gotten draw. We also beat them in League cup.
That will take us to 80-82 points. You're over compensating. About 2ppg will see us get top 4 which is 76 points. 31 points out of a possible 42 is what's required and that's doable IMO.
I hope we do. I hope that we can turn those draws into wins and yes i think we can get it done.