Top 4 race 2016/17

Summit said:
hmmm, are you sure? I know the 5 team rule, but I only thought that came into force for EL winners? If United finished in top 4, and didn't win the EL, but Leicester won the CL are you saying there will be 5 teams in the CL from England?
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Yes. That's for sure. Every other teams bar us & Chelsea fighting for top 4 would be praying for Leceister not to win CL, with us being favorite to win EL. Ironically they would pray that we would win EL so we wouldn't go as hard in the league allowing 5 CL places for English teams next season.
 
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Summit said:
hmmm, are you sure? I know the 5 team rule, but I only thought that came into force for EL winners? If United finished in top 4, and didn't win the EL, but Leicester won the CL are you saying there will be 5 teams in the CL from England?
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Correct.

Only way 4th spot misses out is if both the winners of the Europa and the Co finish outside the top 4.
 
Giggs86 said:
Finally a little bit of optimism.
Considering that we started this season without CL football, winning the League Cup, Europa League and finishing 2nd in the league would be much better than decent. It would be a pretty successful season in my book.
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If we win the Manchester derby, 2nd place will definitely be within reach. The international break will hopefully do us some good, after a period of fixture congestion. The only thing we need to wish for is that no players get injured while on international duty.

Man United are a club on the rise, that's clear to see. After the gloom of the Moyes/LVG years, finally we are looking like we are turning the corner. In the meantime, Liverpool and Arsenal (and City) have all regressed. Guardiola looks like he is really struggling to cope with English football. We should be competing for the title with Chelsea not scrapping for top four. A club like United should never accept finishing lower than 3rd. Fergie was manager for over 2 decades and he never finished lower than 3rd.
 
Treble_Winning said:
If we win the Manchester derby, 2nd place will definitely be within reach. The international break will hopefully do us some good, after a period of fixture congestion. The only thing we need to wish for is that no players get injured while on international duty.

Man United are a club on the rise, that's clear to see. After the gloom of the Moyes/LVG years, finally we are looking like we are turning the corner. In the meantime, Liverpool and Arsenal (and City) have all regressed. Guardiola looks like he is really struggling to cope with English football. We should be competing for the title with Chelsea not scrapping for top four. A club like United should never accept finishing lower than 3rd. Fergie was manager for over 2 decades and he never finished lower than 3rd.
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I'm not sure how you can say Liverpool have regressed? On what basis? I know we all love to hate them, but it is clear for anyone to see that they haven't regressed. They are currently sitting in 4th, and have played all the top 6 games without losing one of them. Yeah you'll point out that they struggle against the lower opposition that park the bus, but still doesn't take away their current league position atm.
 
ti vu said:
Yes. That's for sure. Every other teams bar us & Chelsea fighting for top 4 would be praying for Leceister not to win CL, with us being favorite to win EL. Ironically they would pray that we would win EL so we wouldn't go as hard in the league allowing 5 CL places for English teams next season.
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Really?

And there was me not giving one single thought or care about Leicester in the CL, Utd in the EL or how hard Utd play in the PL.
 
Treble_Winning said:
If we win the Manchester derby, 2nd place will definitely be within reach. The international break will hopefully do us some good, after a period of fixture congestion. The only thing we need to wish for is that no players get injured while on international duty.

Man United are a club on the rise, that's clear to see. After the gloom of the Moyes/LVG years, finally we are looking like we are turning the corner. In the meantime, Liverpool and Arsenal (and City) have all regressed. Guardiola looks like he is really struggling to cope with English football. We should be competing for the title with Chelsea not scrapping for top four. A club like United should never accept finishing lower than 3rd. Fergie was manager for over 2 decades and he never finished lower than 3rd.
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Correction: after SAF climbed up & never backed down below 3rd =/= never lower than 3rd.

SirHenryPercy said:
Really?

And there was me not giving one single thought or care about Leicester in the CL, Utd in the EL or how hard Utd play in the PL.
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Good for you then. Leicester to win CL, us to win EL would be fun for for the 3 CL spots.
 
Treble_Winning said:
If we win the Manchester derby, 2nd place will definitely be within reach. The international break will hopefully do us some good, after a period of fixture congestion. The only thing we need to wish for is that no players get injured while on international duty.

Man United are a club on the rise, that's clear to see. After the gloom of the Moyes/LVG years, finally we are looking like we are turning the corner. In the meantime, Liverpool and Arsenal (and City) have all regressed. Guardiola looks like he is really struggling to cope with English football. We should be competing for the title with Chelsea not scrapping for top four. A club like United should never accept finishing lower than 3rd. Fergie was manager for over 2 decades and he never finished lower than 3rd.
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If anything, your posts never fail to make me laugh.
 
We'll never make it this year and after the City vs Pool of yesterday we all know that we're not able to produce the kind of football they're doing.

Chelsea are the champions.

That let only three spot when we'll have to go to Arsenal, Tottenham and City while receiving Chelsea.

We all know that we are very bad against top teams so I'm not really confident with this.

The PL calendar plus the Europa League make it almost impossible to reach top four especially because we play Chelsea between the Anderlecht game, we also play Arsenal between a possible semis AND Tottenham after the return leg. So probably 3 defeats when our opponents will be fresh and not distracted
 
Summit said:
I'm not sure how you can say Liverpool have regressed? On what basis? I know we all love to hate them, but it is clear for anyone to see that they haven't regressed. They are currently sitting in 4th, and have played all the top 6 games without losing one of them. Yeah you'll point out that they struggle against the lower opposition that park the bus, but still doesn't take away their current league position atm.
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Under Rodgers, they challenged for the title. So they have certainly regressed under Klopp. He isn't a first season manager so they can't use the "transition" excuse. They have a weaker/thinner squad, and they're further away from challenging for trophies than they were. It is hard to see them challenging for anything other than top four if nothing changes dramatically. As a club, they have stagnated, and now lack the pulling power to sign top players (whereas they once had Gerrard, Mascherano, Sterling, Suarez). They are headed the way of Arsenal unless sweeping changes are made. I am pretty certain they will finish outside the top four this season, and their "success" has been down to Klopp's system rather than overall quality. However the exact same system has also contributed to exhaustion, fatigue and loss of form, in particular, their defending is atrocious both individually and as a team.

It is hard to see Liverpool as a serious contender next season.

We will finish above them in May and we will also have more trophies than them.

Liverpool are going backwards, United are making good progress. Anyone who can't see that needs a reality check.

It seems that some United fans are incredibly biased against United or maybe they are afraid to be optimistic about United. But facts are facts. How many games have Liverpool won in 2017?
 
Treble_Winning said:
Under Rodgers, they challenged for the title. So they have certainly regressed under Klopp. He isn't a first season manager so they can't use the "transition" excuse. They have a weaker/thinner squad, and they're further away from challenging for trophies than they were. It is hard to see them challenging for anything other than top four if nothing changes dramatically. As a club, they have stagnated, and now lack the pulling power to sign top players (whereas they once had Gerrard, Mascherano, Sterling, Suarez). They are headed the way of Arsenal unless sweeping changes are made. I am pretty certain they will finish outside the top four this season, and their "success" has been down to Klopp's system rather than overall quality. However the exact same system has also contributed to exhaustion, fatigue and loss of form, in particular, their defending is atrocious both individually and as a team.

It is hard to see Liverpool as a serious contender next season.

We will finish above them in May and we will also have more trophies than them.

Liverpool are going backwards, United are making good progress. Anyone who can't see that needs a reality check.

It seems that some United fans are incredibly biased against United or maybe they are afraid to be optimistic about United. But facts are facts. How many games have Liverpool won in 2017?
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They regressed the season after they challenged for the title under Rodgers after losing Suarez, but they certainly haven't regressed this season under Klopp. You are also forgetting that the season they challenged for the title was a complete utter shambles of other top sides, whereas this season it is a lot more competitive.
 
Summit said:
They regressed the season after they challenged for the title under Rodgers after losing Suarez, but they certainly haven't regressed this season under Klopp. You are also forgetting that the season they challenged for the title was a complete utter shambles of other top sides, whereas this season it is a lot more competitive.
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Wouldn't you say that almost all Liverpool fans would be terribly disappointed with how this season has panned out?

They were leading the league at one point and were declared as "champions elect" by many fans. They also had a clear shot at the League Cup but bottled it by losing to Southampton home and away, thus denying them a place in the final (and denying us a glorious and historic win over our rivals at Wembley).

Now they are out of all competitions and struggling for a place in the top four. They have ONE path to CL qualification and if we win our games in hand they will lose out. Moreover we have two paths, not just one.

In the summer, many good players will undoubtedly be interested in joining Chelsea, United, City and Spurs (yes Spurs are a big club now and will be title contenders). Where does that leave Liverpool? They are going to be left behind, a forgotten club on the periphery of the elite group, a random club that makes the odd cup run but ultimately just makes up the numbers, especially as the top four consolidate and entrench themselves.

Definitely not making progress as a club.
 
Liverpool are making progress but problem is that so is everyone else as we are all in transitional stages under new managers and therefore it seems that they're going backwards.

The current side with Suarez up front would have won the title last year or the Rodgers year under Klopp management.

They need to improve at a faster rate to outrun the likes of City/United who will have massive transfer windows this summer and will probably leave Liverpool in the dust yet again.
 
Treble_Winning said:
Wouldn't you say that almost all Liverpool fans would be terribly disappointed with how this season has panned out?

They were leading the league at one point and were declared as "champions elect" by many fans. They also had a clear shot at the League Cup but bottled it by losing to Southampton home and away, thus denying them a place in the final (and denying us a glorious and historic win over our rivals at Wembley).

Now they are out of all competitions and struggling for a place in the top four. They have ONE path to CL qualification and if we win our games in hand they will lose out. Moreover we have two paths, not just one.

In the summer, many good players will undoubtedly be interested in joining Chelsea, United, City and Spurs (yes Spurs are a big club now and will be title contenders). Where does that leave Liverpool? They are going to be left behind, a forgotten club on the periphery of the elite group, a random club that makes the odd cup run but ultimately just makes up the numbers, especially as the top four consolidate and entrench themselves.

Definitely not making progress as a club.
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You can't use what has happened in this current season as a barometer for regression though, as it is still going on. You are changing the goal posts now to suit your argument. League places fluctuate throughout the season, so just because at one stage Liverpool were second, doesn't mean they have regressed now they are 4th. At the end of the season if they finish in the top 4 (and for me it is looking very likely); they have progressed. Would you not agree?
 
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Treble_Winning said:
Wouldn't you say that almost all Liverpool fans would be terribly disappointed with how this season has panned out?

They were leading the league at one point and were declared as "champions elect" by many fans. They also had a clear shot at the League Cup but bottled it by losing to Southampton home and away, thus denying them a place in the final (and denying us a glorious and historic win over our rivals at Wembley).

Now they are out of all competitions and struggling for a place in the top four. They have ONE path to CL qualification and if we win our games in hand they will lose out. Moreover we have two paths, not just one.

In the summer, many good players will undoubtedly be interested in joining Chelsea, United, City and Spurs (yes Spurs are a big club now and will be title contenders). Where does that leave Liverpool? They are going to be left behind, a forgotten club on the periphery of the elite group, a random club that makes the odd cup run but ultimately just makes up the numbers, especially as the top four consolidate and entrench themselves.

Definitely not making progress as a club.
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I think their main goal this season would have been to make top 4 and they can still do that. Their ambitions are on the level of Spurs right now, where winning things is secondary to earning money through CL qualification.
 
I really think people are still downplaying Liverpool's chances of finishing top 4. They've the easiest run in and once again are just playing week to week. They played well against City yesterday and I think they'll finish above us, we're starting to look pretty leggy.

Think it's between City and United for 4th, we're playing pretty well but were running on empty for large parts of the game yesterday and I think it will all come down to who can take chances in front of goal, both teams have squandered numerous chances all season and it doesn't look like it's ending for either team, hopefully the EL will take it's toll with your lot and we'll just pip you like we did last season and with any luck you'll get beaten in the final of the EL to an offside goal in the 94th min.
 
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Maradona10 said:
I am afraid we cant. The three matches a week for whole of april is going to kill us with fatigue. We are already +10 matches over many of our opponents.
Yes some of our players get rest over international break but i think weeks like anderlecht-chelsea-anderlecht will be too much for us. With city game being 12.00 noon on 27 april, after we play in midweek will be of huge trouble.
Simple fact is although we might have quantity, but we do not have quality to play and win these 3 game/week. I think it would be wise to pick europa as first priority and manage the premier league.Not only because the highest quality team in europa are probably at level of everton in football terms but also because two legs of matches will help us as if we play poor in one leg we can always back ourselves to win in the 2nd leg.
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That's probably the dumbest thing I've ever read here. We don't capitulate like cowards afraid of losing. We continue to fight in every comp were in. The fixtures are what they are, no use moaning about them.
 
Thunderhead said:
I really think people are still downplaying Liverpool's chances of finishing top 4. They've the easiest run in and once again are just playing week to week. They played well against City yesterday and I think they'll finish above us, we're starting to look pretty leggy.

Think it's between City and United for 4th, we're playing pretty well but were running on empty for large parts of the game yesterday and I think it will all come down to who can take chances in front of goal, both teams have squandered numerous chances all season and it doesn't look like it's ending for either team, hopefully the EL will take it's toll with your lot and we'll just pip you like we did last season and with any luck you'll get beaten in the final of the EL to an offside goal in the 94th min.
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That's probably because Liverpool have shown themselves to struggle against the lesser sides. I wouldn't be certain of Liverpool picking up three points away to Stoke, West Brom, Watford or West Ham.

Let's see where City are after the games against Chelsea and Arsenal.

I don't see Arsenal recovering.

I think've we let ourselves too much to do, particularly with the away games we face. Luckily for us, we have an alternative CL route.
 
After the debacle of Jan/Feb 2017 our last five league games form guide reads: WLWWD.
 
Chaky_Best said:
We'll never make it this year and after the City vs Pool of yesterday we all know that we're not able to produce the kind of football they're doing.

Chelsea are the champions.

That let only three spot when we'll have to go to Arsenal, Tottenham and City while receiving Chelsea.

We all know that we are very bad against top teams so I'm not really confident with this.

The PL calendar plus the Europa League make it almost impossible to reach top four especially because we play Chelsea between the Anderlecht game, we also play Arsenal between a possible semis AND Tottenham after the return leg. So probably 3 defeats when our opponents will be fresh and not distracted
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We should overcome such schedule if we really deserve to be top 4 that is what the players need to realize they are playing for Man.United they cannot be distracted they need to take their chances they must play for their lives these two months, period.
 
I would put Utd's fixture situation into perspective by looking at the table atm, but then adding 3 games to the played column & 3pts to the points total.

I'd do this to simulate having played 3 of the very tricky games & to imaginary-tastically level up the difficulty of the games left between the contenders.

It would have us a point or two behind LFC & City having played 1-2 more games.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/tables

Draw your own conclusions but I'd say we need some pretty good results to be getting past Liverpool & don't have much chance at all of finishing above City.
 
Coutinho and Firmino will be playing Brazil's qualifier in the early hours of Thursday morning, I believe and then have to travel back to Liverpool for the early kick off on the Saturday.

Hopefully works against them big time.
 
VanGaalEra said:
Coutinho and Firmino will be playing Brazil's qualifier in the early hours of Thursday morning, I believe and then have to travel back to Liverpool for the early kick off on the Saturday.

Hopefully works against them big time.
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Firmino won't play and Coutinho shouldn't either based on current form, but probably will so yeah, it's a bit of a problem, not so much the game but the travelling time and possible slight jetlag added to that.
 
Both players need some reinvigorating. They can't play any worse jet lagged or not.
 
Dumbstar said:
Both players need some reinvigorating. They can't play any worse jet lagged or not.
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Coutinho was shocking yesterday really seems to have just let his season start drifting away. Your least effective attacker. Plus for most the game he was facing a cm playing rb. Shame cause for 4 months he was pushing hazard for poty.
 
A big win against West Brom will set things up nicely, with Spurs away at Burnley, Liverpool playing Everton and City playing Arsenal. Got to be a draw or two in that lot of fixtures.
 
padr81 said:
Coutinho was shocking yesterday really seems to have just let his season start drifting away. Your least effective attacker. Plus for most the game he was facing a cm playing rb. Shame cause for 4 months he was pushing hazard for poty.
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I take it you saw the game live? Yeah he was crap against Arsenal and Burnley too. I was hoping he would find his form against his favourite opponents, you lot, but nope. As we have no luxury of a squad we're having to win with him on the pitch rather than off.

Maybe jetting around in his home country will trigger something. Would help having him back fully functional.
 
Arsenal have lost 4 of the last 5 PL games with the 2-0 win against Hull being thanks to that handball goal.

They're in free fall!
 
Dumbstar said:
I take it you saw the game live? Yeah he was crap against Arsenal and Burnley too. I was hoping he would find his form against his favourite opponents, you lot, but nope. As we have no luxury of a squad we're having to win with him on the pitch rather than off.

Maybe jetting around in his home country will trigger something. Would help having him back fully functional.
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I live in ireland so sadly no. TV had to do. I dread playing him cause he usually sticks one in top corner against us.
Maybe he just needs to bury a 30 yarder and he'll be away again. Looked to be tentative on the ball yesterday and a bit slower in using it than usual. Normally your front 3 make us look like statues.
Think your front 3 will all click soon and with your run in you'll make top 4. You guys were a joy to watch yesterday. You play with such reckless abandon you make pep look sane.
 
Summit said:
hmmm, are you sure? I know the 5 team rule, but I only thought that came into force for EL winners? If United finished in top 4, and didn't win the EL, but Leicester won the CL are you saying there will be 5 teams in the CL from England?
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Yes. 5 max and that is complicated by who wins what. The difference is who goes into the qualifying rounds and who goes straight to the main draw. But yes, overall, 5 teams qualify even if the team that wins the CL finishes outside the top 4.
 
VanGaalEra said:
Arsenal have lost 4 of the last 5 PL games with the 2-0 win against Hull being thanks to that handball goal.

They're in free fall!
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Not sure Arsenal are the major worry any more. We're ahead of that lot and still play them (should be a Jose gimme). Liverpool, City and Spurs are the targets and neither of those (sadly) is in free fall.
 
Spurs look out of reach, their fixtures are fine and they are playing well. If anything I see them putting pressure on Chelsea. I would also be surprised if City fecked it up as well especially now they are out of Europe. We need to beat Liverpool and Arsenal to it.
 
Too many here hanging their hat on Liverpool being 'poor against the lesser sides'. Their remaining fixtures appear mainly against teams that will have nothing to play for. The fixture pile up kills our chances. Arsenal are irrelevant, they'll probably finish below us.
 
Leftback99 said:
Too many here hanging their hat on Liverpool being 'poor against the lesser sides'. Their remaining fixtures appear mainly against teams that will have nothing to play for. The fixture pile up kills our chances. Arsenal are irrelevant, they'll probably finish below us.
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Nar, we're just going off the evidence that since 1-nov 2016 we've picked up 4 more points than Liverpool in 2 less games. It's Liverpool, not us, that need to improve drastically if they are going to beat us for top 4.
 
I just think Liverpool are going to Liverpool it. They will feck up in the most comedic fashion and deep down their fans and players already know that.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Nar, we're just going off the evidence that since 1-nov 2016 we've picked up 4 more points than Liverpool in 2 less games. It's Liverpool, not us, that need to improve drastically if they are going to beat us for top 4.
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Why is the 1st November relevant?
 
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