United linked with van Gaal in the meeja

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Smores said:
I just dread another manager having to assess and get to grips with the team. I'd rather give Moyes another year knowing with the key positions fixed the minimum will be 4th anyway, if he only has us scraping fourth we'd have a better team for someone else to take over anyway
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You dread a new manager assessing the same team that challenged for the title every season? Why do some fans constantly berate the players? Not very supportive, is it?

It's ridiculous to think Moyes can inspire our players to anything, nevermind 4th place. This is the manager that cannot finish above Everton with the current champions and you want to give him another season?
 
Moriarty said:
According to Wilf: "Matt Busby called me into his office and said: 'Wilf, I'm retiring and you are to be the next manager of Manchester United'. It was 'wow'. I was just delighted about it." Sound familiar?

Wilf was in a no-win situation. Never a star performer in his playing days, he was pushed in at the sharp end with a brief to manage players who had been his peers. There's no doubt Busby's team was on the slide even though they'd reached a European Cup semi-final the year before. Wilf was 30 or 31 when appointed. Took us to the League Cup semi which we lost to City and an FA Cup semi final 2nd replay when we lost to Leeds. Even though we had the Holy Trinity, we suffered some awful defeats including a 0-4 loss at Ipswich and a 4-0 drubbing at Maine Road ( a recurring theme for United managers). But I will say this, as hamstrung as he was by Busby's interfering and by certain senior players moaning behind his back, Wilf never compromised on playing the game as he had been taught by Busby and Murphy. He left Old Trafford a very dispirited man though time seems to have healed him somewhat.

What gets me is that the lessons of history were written large in the memory of the United board; especially Gill. Determined not to copy the mistakes of Busby, they laid down the requirements for Fergie's successor. Must be experienced in Europe and have a record of winning major trophies. Instead, they tore that up and did almost exactly what Busby did in 1969 and gave control of the team to a man who, though a decent enough manager, had found his level in the game and had never given any indication of moving above that. His brand of football isn't United's. The Harrods/Marks and Sparks analogy was, for me at least, very telling and prescient.
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It's hard as a modern United fan, success is the only recognisable factor, I think Wilf and Moyes terms have similarities, from your eyes Wilf was inexperienced and given no choice, Moyes had control of a football club and similarly had no choice.
It's gotten me you or anyone else no closer today but thanks for the input. I still love Wilf he never handed out blame in similar vein to Moyes did he ?
 
bobbyf said:
You dread a new manager assessing the same team that challenged for the title every season? Why do some fans constantly berate the players? Not very supportive, is it?

It's ridiculous to think Moyes can inspire our players to anything, nevermind 4th place. This is the manager that cannot finish above Everton with the current champions and you want to give him another season?
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He's already had a team finish in fourth for a start so hardly 'ridiculous' My haste for a new manager is nothing to do with Moyes but stability.

If you think the team is amazeballs and you wouldn't want the new manager to change anything then fine. I'm of the view making changes when your players age, retire or begin to fade is a good idea. Scholes, Ronaldo and a solid defence in Ferdinand/Ciduc/Evravwon title after title, they ain't here anymore
 
Smores said:
He's already had a team finish in fourth for a start so hardly 'ridiculous' My haste for a new manager is nothing to do with Moyes but stability.

If you think the team is amazeballs and you wouldn't want the new manager to change anything then fine. I'm of the view making changes when your players age, retire or begin to fade is a good idea. Scholes, Ronaldo and a solid defence in Ferdinand/Ciduc/Evravwon title after title, they ain't here anymore
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The same team who are 4th now while he has taken the champions to 7th? Moyes built his defence at Everton around a 36 year old and he hasn't retired yet. Maybe he's just incapable if getting the best out of our players. And I want a new manager too. Unfortunately, we don't have SAF either so we have to change managers if they are not up to the job like other clubs do.

I'm saying that our team are a lot better than the doomsayers are making out, since they competed for one of Europe's top leagues for so long. It's an excuse to take the heat off Moyes' failings. Not suggesting they don't need replacing cos of course they do, but who failed to do that last summer? And it's not just one manager or a few players that win trophies, it's the whole squad. They deserve credit for that too.
 
bobbyf said:
The same team who are 4th now while he has taken the champions to 7th? Moyes built his defence at Everton around a 36 year old and he hasn't retired yet. Maybe he's just incapable if getting the best out of our players. And I want a new manager too. Unfortunately, we don't have SAF either so we have to change managers if they are not up to the job like other clubs do.

I'm saying that our team are a lot better than the doomsayers are making out, since they competed for one of Europe's top leagues for so long. It's an excuse to take the heat off Moyes' failings. Not suggesting they don't need replacing cos of course they do, but who failed to do that last summer? And it's not just one manager or a few players that win trophies, it's the whole squad. They deserve credit for that too.
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fecking hell, I knew Distin had been around a while but didn't realise he's 36. Doesn't lack pace either.
 
gasmanc said:
It's hard as a modern United fan, success is the only recognisable factor, I think Wilf and Moyes terms have similarities, from your eyes Wilf was inexperienced and given no choice, Moyes had control of a football club and similarly had no choice.
It's gotten me you or anyone else no closer today but thanks for the input. I still love Wilf he never handed out blame in similar vein to Moyes did he ?
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Not that I can remember. He was treated pretty shabbily but fair play to him as he doesn't seem bitter in the least.
 
Moriarty said:
Not that I can remember. He was treated pretty shabbily but fair play to him as he doesn't seem bitter in the least.
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As far as I am aware he's well respected, Moyes has done fair well so far, how long he remains respected is a fecker.
Moyes tenure stinks of Sexton and his dull nearly days.
 
Paolo Di Canio said:
RVP to Spurs in the summer
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Is this your wish, guess, or reliable source? In any case it wouldn't make sense as RvP would only go to a club where he can play in the CL and/or having a prospect of winning some trophy. Spurs does not fall into these categories
 
redevil2 said:
Is this your wish, guess, or reliable source? In any case it wouldn't make sense as RvP would only go to a club where he can play in the CL and/or having a prospect of winning some trophy. Spurs does not fall into these categories
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No i would be gutted if RVP left, just seeing as Van Gaal and RVP seem to be so close, and I would imagine he would want to sign Van Persie, and if he wants to leave it could be a likely destination
 
Smores said:
I just dread another manager having to assess and get to grips with the team. I'd rather give Moyes another year knowing with the key positions fixed the minimum will be 4th anyway, if he only has us scraping fourth we'd have a better team for someone else to take over anyway
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Don't allow Moyes' incompetence to rewrite history. Guardiola, Mourinho(for the most part), Martinez and Pellegrini had to use this season to assess and get to grips with their new teams. They've done that fairly well haven't they? A manager worth his salt won't need almost a full season to do this. Don't lower your expectations of the abilities of quality managers. No manager would be able to win a trophy with a team he just joined that season and made better if Moyes is the benchmark. He isn't.
 
Been out all day, can't really be arsed reading 15 pages. Summary?
 
Phil said:
Been out all day, can't really be arsed reading 15 pages. Summary?
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Been rubbished by United. Most people still believe it's possible. Others suggesting an agent plant. Had some saying if you give a manager a 6 year contract he'll eventually be successful. People have also argued pros and cons for van Gaal. Moyes bashing and people wanting Klopp/Simeone and suggestions of who he'll be appointing as his assistant manager.
 
roseguy64 said:
Been rubbished by United. Most people still believe it's possible. Others suggesting an agent plant. Had some saying if you give a manager a 6 year contract he'll eventually be successful. People have also argued pros and cons for van Gaal. Moyes bashing and people wanting Klopp/Simeone and suggestions of who he'll be appointing as his assistant manager.
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Thanks mate. Sounds mostly like the usual then.
 
Noticed most fans want a more fashionable young manager to takeover from Moyes.
We should not be knocking back the credentials of Van Gaal, he is one of a very few managers that truly understand/experienced managing a club of MU expectations, he is likelier to deliver than fail. One thing will be for certain, he is not an average coach and not be doing a quick fix. He considers himself as one of the great minds of the game and tends to work towards a legacy in revamping footballing philosophies to his own.
As united fans we are quick to call out people as short term managers.. Van Gaal wants total control of football matters whilst at clubs were he had to work with a football director its basically asking them to fire his boss. In a situation like that there is always gonna be friction..
I would love to see him manage United but don't believe it will ever happen. To bring his shortcomings into an argument when his achievement outweighs them, sounds a bit foolish to me...
These type of reports don't usually amount to a penny....Guess we'll be stuck with the fella that believes to deliver, he will need to bling the team up.

Just gonna add for most foreign guys coaching in the premiership is a dream opportunity coz you get to be the manager. Whilst elsewhere you are only the head coach and that is a point people miss, when we talking about fallouts and all that....most team decisions are not entirely yours.
 
Known as Dithering Dave whilst at Everton .. maybe Moyes is once again procrastinating in getting his act together?
 
Wow! If true, this mirrors the scenario played out in my worst nightmares. To trust this short term fix with a £100m+ budget and task of rebuild is as scary a prospect as any. Please, no. I would rather have Moyes than him.

If we are looking for a new man then we should do this properly. Klopp should be the main target and focus of all our energies. If he is not ready to leave BVB, and we need a short term fix, then I rather have Sir Alex come out of retirement than have Van Gaal as our manager.
 
Shinjisan said:
Wow! If true, this mirrors the scenario played out in my worst nightmares. To trust this short term fix with a £100m+ budget and task of rebuild is as scary a prospect as any. Please, no. I would rather have Moyes than him.

If we are looking for a new man then we should do this properly. Klopp should be the main target and focus of all our energies. If he is not ready to leave BVB, and we need a short term fix, then I rather have Sir Alex come out of retirement than have Van Gaal as our manager.
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Why do you assume Van Gaal would want or require spunking 100million to improve us? have no fear Dave our " safe choice" this summer, is here for that one, personally I'd just like to see what the guy could do with our squad, Im fairly certain he'd be able to get 100x more out of RvP, Januzaj, Mata and co while actually organising us into a cohesive attacking unit, I mean... personally speaking I would like to turn up to Old Trafford and not automatically resign myself to the game being over and the crowd sensing DOOM when we go 1 down, but hey I'm crazy.
But hey-ho, Dave tells me we've dropped too many points this year at OT due to being gung-ho... yes, sticking with Moyes does sound like the right choice between the two, remembering the principles our mothers always taught, stick it out kid, even if you've picked a loser.. to the bitter end.
 
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Crashoutcassius said:
But is Benitez going to get us competing with insolvent billionaire clubs. This conversation simply is not about Moyes. I don't know why peple can't discuss Van Gaal or Benitez without panicking and saying Moyes
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With all due respect but it was you who placed Benitez in Moyes category. Its certainly not the case.
 
BennyBlanco said:
Why do you assume Van Gaal would want or require spunking 100million to improve us? have no fear Dave our " safe choice" this summer, is here for that one, personally I'd just like to see what the guy could do with our squad, Im fairly certain he'd be able to get 100x more out of RvP, Januzaj, Mata and co while actually organising us into a cohesive attacking unit, I mean... personally speaking I would like to turn up to Old Trafford and not automatically resign myself to the game being over and the crowd sensing DOOM when we go 1 down, but hey I'm crazy.
But hey-ho, Dave tells me we've dropped too many points this year at OT due to being gung-ho... yes, sticking with Moyes does sound like the right choice between the two, stick the principals our mothers always taught, stick it out kid, even if you've picked a loser.. to the bitter end.
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Don't you think we would need to spend this summer? Vidic is leaving, Rio & Giggs will retire, Evra is most likely on his way out. Then the need for a central midfielder or two remains, in addition to a new winger.

You are fairly certain that he would get a 100X times more out of a Van Persie that was injured through out the season, a Januzaj who has done exceedingly well, and Mata who has settled in the team and is performing now. Let me ask you again, are you certain?

Rest of the hysterical stuff in that post - :lol::lol:
 
Shinjisan said:
Don't you think we would need to spend this summer? Vidic is leaving, Rio & Giggs will retire, Evra is most likely on his way out. Then the need for a central midfielder or two remains, in addition to a new winger.

You are fairly certain that he would get a 100X times more out of a Van Persie that was injured through out the season, a Januzaj who has done exceedingly well, and Mata who has settled in the team and is performing now. Let me ask you again, are you certain?

Rest of the hysterical stuff in that post - :lol::lol:
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The same RvP whos been less than enthusiastic over Moyes training since day 1, the same RvP who's looked a shadow of himself this year, the same RvP who complained about formation and players used are ending up playing in his spaces?

Januzaj was always going to be a big hit by the way, having been aware of him for the past years in the youth and reserves, and no I don't think Moyes knows what to do with him, and no I don't think "get it wide, get it in, 82x Moyes" has the technical insight needed to help keep taking his game up levels, certainly not to the levels Van Gaal has helped his players in the past.

The same arguement ith Mata who's performed to his capabilities in roughly two games when Moyes was literally forced due to injury to change it around, now we're seeing it as Moyes working wonders to rejuvinate his career? when the last few months has seen Moyes shunting him around from right to left and often being subbed off.

Yea I'm quite certain I'd rather have a short term Van Gaal coaching us.
 
Shinjisan said:
Don't you think we would need to spend this summer? Vidic is leaving, Rio & Giggs will retire, Evra is most likely on his way out. Then the need for a central midfielder or two remains, in addition to a new winger.

You are fairly certain that he would get a 100X times more out of a Van Persie that was injured through out the season, a Januzaj who has done exceedingly well, and Mata who has settled in the team and is performing now. Let me ask you again, are you certain?

Rest of the hysterical stuff in that post - :lol::lol:
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I wont be surprised if VG spends little next summer. He would want to assess the team (which means the like of Ando, Zaha and Powell would return) and he's got a reputation of working with what he has
 
Amir said:
They'd certainly fit that direction. They've certainly got the right style of football which for me already puts them above Moyes.
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A manager like pochettino was, in my mind, the kind of manager we should have taken a risk on if we really wanted to. Someone who could eventually prove to find managment at a club as big as Manchester United too much (like Moyes has), but who is an excellent coach who will take the players and the unit in a modern, progressive direction. That kind of arc would have made a poor season (finishing position wise) far more worth it than someone who isn't convincing on any front, whether it's elevating the players tactically with fresh ideas or getting results.
 
Smores said:
I just dread another manager having to assess and get to grips with the team.
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I know we've only had one managerial change in 27 years, but I don't think we should take the last one as a guide to anything. It's a guide to how being clueless and doing things far too slow. It's not normally like that.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
A manager like pochettino was, in my mind, the kind of manager we should have taken a risk on if we really wanted to. Someone who could eventually prove to find managment at a club as big as Manchester United too much (like Moyes has), but who is an excellent coach who will take the players and the unit in a modern, progressive direction. That kind of arc would have made a poor season (finishing position wise) far more worth it than someone who isn't convincing on any front, whether it's elevating the players tactically with fresh ideas or getting results.
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Exactly. The one issue Moyes had an advantage with is his experience in running a whole club, which I doubt Pochettino or Martinez have done - not in the same way, anyway. But that's only one aspect. Placing all our eggs in that basket and neglecting the small issue called 'football style and phylosophy' is damning. But admittedly, it kind of continues Fergie's way in recent years, so it's not all that surprising. That was the problem of letting him handpick his successor. It meant the club didn't even look at things which may have gone wrong at recent years and can be rectified now. Just try to do the same...
 
bosnian_red said:
Doubt anybody truly believed that. When rival fans making joke campaigns like keep rafa or Roy at pool, laugh at them every week, you know you have the wrong guy in charge. Roy was blatantly a shit manager and the only reason united fans wanted him to stay was because of how funny it was seeing them struggle with him. Obvious to anyone that they'd get better without him.
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Having seen the Hodgson thread, quite a few believed it.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
Please god not Van Gaal, would be such a massive step backwards for this club to appoint a manager who can't succeed at other big clubs ala Rafa/Van Gaal. If we absolutely have to start sacking managers every season, lets at least take gambles on up and coming, hungry managers, not 65 year jokes who threaten to get barca relegated
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They're two of the most successful managers in world football today. Both are top class managers.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
If he was that successful in this most recent spells, bayern and barca, he would still be at the club instead of being fired. At Barca he was sacked in january with Barca 3 pts from relegation zone. At Bayern he was sacked in April with Bayern in 4th. Rafa's fine, but when Liverpool and Chelsea both sack him in the last 5-6 years I don't think it's suitable to label him our savior eithe
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Chelsea were morons to get rid of him. He was excellent for them in the most difficult of circumstances.
 
Cal? said:
It's amazing that only United know to operate this way, god forbid Liverpool gave Souness or Evan 6 yrs back in the 90s, Sir Alex would never have knocked them off their perch.
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Us giving either of them time is a hell of a lot more understandable than you giving Moyes time. Those two are huge legends and figures in our history.
 
KM said:
Moyes got lucky with Coleman?

That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on here. The truth is that for for 10m, he has created an excellent back 5 for Everton. I know it's fashionable to criticise Moyes but let's not discredit his previous good work.
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Aye. He built a brilliant defence. Coleman is an incredible deal. If he were to be sold right now it'd probably be for close to 400 times the amount he paid Sligo.
 
BarneyLFC said:
Chelsea were morons to get rid of him. He was excellent for them in the most difficult of circumstances.
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He was no more than average and certainly not excellent, especially given that he's a top class manager in your words.
 
MDFC Manager said:
He was no more than average and certainly not excellent, especially given that he's a top class manager in your words.
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He got them to 3rd and won a European trophy whilst playing 60 games in a season (I think he played two less than the most it was possible to play). This while he was treated disgracefully by the fans and to use one of the caf's favourite phrases, he was unable to build his own squad. He was brilliant.
 
I think a neutral would say he did a commendable job under the amount of abuse and venom aimed at him at the time by his own fans, while from day one being spoken of publically as a short term "interim" manager only there for one season, he did well all things considered, especially when you consider the task to motivate his players who must have realised this guy would be gone come what may at the end of the season regardless of their performance.
 
BarneyLFC said:
He got them to 3rd and won a European trophy whilst playing 60 games in a season (I think he played two less than the most it was possible to play). This while he was treated disgracefully by the fans and to use one of the caf's favourite phrases, he was unable to build his own squad. He was brilliant.
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Well Di Matteo won the CL and the FA Cup while playing many games as well. He finished 6th in the league, but who cares as long as they qualified for the CL anyway. But I don't find Di Matteo anything special, after all. And Rafa also managed to destroy a treble winning Inter side the same way Moyes is destroying us. I would still take Rafa ahead of Moyes, but that's really not saying much.
 
The thought that hopes were raised from a pretty desperate bunch, makes me smile.
 
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united_99 said:
Well Di Matteo won the CL and the FA Cup while playing many games as well. He finished 6th in the league, but who cares as long as they qualified for the CL anyway. But I don't find Di Matteo anything special, after all. And Rafa also managed to destroy a treble winning Inter side the same way Moyes is destroying us. I would still take Rafa ahead of Moyes, but that's really not saying much.
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Rafa's Inter has absolutely nothing to do with how he did at Chelsea. I agree he was shite at Inter, although even then the circumstances were different to Moyes.
 
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