Its tricky though. What if Spurs decides to pull out of the deal and Manchester United decide to aim elsewhere. It would take just 1 change of event to change everything. Klopp may be suddenly available, Simeone may say that he would like to manage in England or for all we know SAF may decide he had enough of this retirement thing and is keen to push Liverpool down for one last time and prove Moyesy wrong. Things can change pretty quickly in football.
United linked with van Gaal in the meeja
- Thread starter Erentz
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
- Status
Its tricky though. What if Spurs decides to pull out of the deal and Manchester United decide to aim elsewhere. It would take just 1 change of event to change everything. Klopp may be suddenly available, Simeone may say that he would like to manage in England or for all we know SAF may decide he had enough of this retirement thing and is keen to push Liverpool down for one last time and prove Moyesy wrong. Things can change pretty quickly in football.
Would be a bit callous to do anything publicly with another coach while Moyes is still the manager would it not.
If we do get shot of Moyes this summer, there simply isn't a great deal of choice to replace him. I'm sure the club will make better decisions internally as opposed to leaving decisions to someone like Sir Alex but at this moment in time the job is less attractive because it requires a massive rebuilding project with the likelihood of success very very small for quite a period of time.
If it takes van Gaal for two years to restore us to fourth place or higher with what we have supplemented by one or two genuinely special players bought in and slow transitions away from the likes of Carrick, Valencia and Rooney I think it would be a smart call.
Longevity in football management is a lost concept and I think in the modern game a manager has to be close to getting it right within the first 2 or 3 seasons in order to survive. For that reason I will understand any decision to keep Moyes on for one more year. After that if we remain outside of the top 4, there are no excuses at all.
Big calls to be made. If there is any hint of change this coming summer, van Gaal will certainly be a leading candidate because of all the readily available managers he appears to have the best track record. There are definitely better managers out there, but I don't think we'll see any of them move on from their 'projects' yet.
If it takes van Gaal for two years to restore us to fourth place or higher with what we have supplemented by one or two genuinely special players bought in and slow transitions away from the likes of Carrick, Valencia and Rooney I think it would be a smart call.
Longevity in football management is a lost concept and I think in the modern game a manager has to be close to getting it right within the first 2 or 3 seasons in order to survive. For that reason I will understand any decision to keep Moyes on for one more year. After that if we remain outside of the top 4, there are no excuses at all.
Big calls to be made. If there is any hint of change this coming summer, van Gaal will certainly be a leading candidate because of all the readily available managers he appears to have the best track record. There are definitely better managers out there, but I don't think we'll see any of them move on from their 'projects' yet.
Of course you are right with most of that, normally outside the top 4 clubs spurs would be a great job, but i think most coaches would take a calculated risk on missing out on it if there was a chance to manage United,Chelsea,Arsenal etc. wouldn't you agree.
For sake of discussion, can you elaborate why you think Moyes can still deliver without causing more harm to the club? What has he have that gives you such confidence he's good in the long term (he's proven he can't deliver in the short term in fact he has failed and has given you the warning that he's needing 200m to rebuild, and has not promised his aim is to improve any time soon).
Surely "anyone but Moyes" is not too much to ask because we surely have nothing to lose if we have "anyone" but Moyes? (That anyone will find it very hard to drag us down any further given our current situation
There's not much to lose by keeping him on till the end of the season or thereabouts any more, it prevents more upheaval to just quietly nix him then. People sniff at these rumours of contract clauses, but there's no way someone's convincing me that we gave an unproven manager a 6 year contract without significant get outs.
Well - yes. But if they've decided that Moyes has well and truly fecked up, they can't worry about niceties. To my thinking it's highly unlikely that United a) actually want van Gaal and b) nevertheless intend to play some sort of "wait and see" game until the season's finished. In theory they can reach an agreement with VG now and wait until the end of the season to announce it - but even that strikes me as unlikely given the circumstances. If it were announced tomorrow that Moyes had been sacked and Giggs appointed caretaker for the remainder of the season, nobody would be outraged - on the contrary, it would be what everyone seems to expect, right?
Usually yes but at his age VG can't be so picky. There again, I doubt the man would mind if he ends up without a job since he's already contemplating retirement. The lure of proving to the world that he's able to wear SAF's slippers with ease may be too great for arrogant VG to refuse. He's basically an older version of Maureen.
Sounds to me that United are doing what many of us have been advocating for a while now-identifying more than one candidate and considering alternative options-which still seem to include keeping Moyes around. I'm still skeptical about the press reports-but wonder if there could be this much chatter about Moyes being replaced without some truth underlying the stories?
It may all be BS. However the fact that the club has yet to come out in the media refuting any claims (its not on the website) is food for thought. Also you would expect that the club would have already signed at least one player on a pre contract. That would boost the morale and put any rumours to bed
Doubt it. From a Sport Journalism point of view - Moyes performs bad = tabloids use it to make convenient stories.
Happens to every manager at every decent club who doesn't perform. I certainly wouldn't look at recent speculation mounting because of truth but more so because now we are 100% unsuccessful in every competition we've been in this season with many teams leapfrogging us in the standings and general quality of play.
Dear me, this is an example of how David Moyes has had a damaging effect on Manchester United in a short time. You've just gone and given us a 'Moyseism'. A 'massive rebuilding project'? Honestly, if you are serious then you have bought into Moyes and his supporters in the media's propaganda.
The actual re-building of United went into effect some seasons back when Ronaldo first came, then another instance when the stalwarts such as Gary Nev and Scholesy retired. I didn't see any major drama made about how United were going to have some kind of prolonged period of mediocrity. I saw Sir Alex and the lads take the club to the Premier title and after disappointment the season before his retirement, the title happened to be won again last season.
It is odd how David Moyes has had this damaging effect on the club in such a short time. There seems to be nothing but a litany of negativities and excuses - and people need to wake up and stop blaming the fans including those who want to tear down the banner from Old Trafford and those who flew that plane over Old Trafford. I can think of any number of examples of clubs who have had to rebuild including our own in the past but United would have done just fine thank you with some changes and a manager who is not a mediocre, never-has-been.
As much as I wan't to believe there's some truth in United looking at other managers, there seems equal amount of speculation or "news" that we're trying to conclude deals for Moyes specific targets this summer coming out, I'm inclined to believe the latter.
Thanks @ISSYNAZAR for ruining my breakfast. The Dutch paper seems pretty solid in standing behind its story. I'll hang on to that reed for now.
I can understand what you're saying mate i don't know if we want Van Gall either could be all bullshit.
But for reasons unknown to most people plenty of clubs wait until the end of the season to sack managers, and i mean not the most patient ones either clubs like Chelsea, Spurs, Real and Barca have waited until a season has finished to dismiss their managers in recent years, if those clubs wait its possible we also want to wait until the end of the season.
Who knows we could have an agreement in place with someone and are just waiting until the season ends to announce it.
I am not Moyes fan. Yet its evident that there's a rebuilding process that needs to be done. Vidic is leaving, Rio is finished, Evra is probably a goner, Giggs is 41 years old, Fellaini is shit, Fletcher has a chronic illness and our flanks/CM screams for quality.
Now rebuilding can be done in various ways. We can spend 200m on the likes of Kroos and Fabregas. We can rely more on youths or we can get bargains. Things can change immediately or gradually. However dont think for 1 second that change isn't imminent.
I was more talking about the 'massive' part of the re-building process. It's part of the propaganda doing the rounds in the media that David Moyes has some Herculean task ahead of him despite being part of Manchester United and all that it gives him in terms of advantages.
I'd say we could have been title contenders with the current squad even with its shortcomings. As other posters have pointed out in different threads, other managers have managed to win titles and silverware at various times with players who were deemed to be too old, crocks, etc. 'Massive' re-building comes when your squad mostly consists of old players and crocks etc. All this kind of 'massive re-building' talk serves as just another way to excuse David Moyes and encourage his own representation of the situation which most fans judging by what we have seen and heard, disagree with.
I'd say we could have been title contenders with the current squad even with its shortcomings. As other posters have pointed out in different threads, other managers have managed to win titles and silverware at various times with players who were deemed to be too old, crocks, etc. 'Massive' re-building comes when your squad mostly consists of old players and crocks etc. All this kind of 'massive re-building' talk serves as just another way to excuse David Moyes and encourage his own representation of the situation which most fans judging by what we have seen and heard, disagree with.
I have a feeling there's a top 4 clause in his contract, and we can still mathematically make it, so that's why we'd wait. Obviously we won't make it, but we still have to wait for the clause to become active.
After the Munich game, shreeves asked moyes if getting knocked out of Europe might cost him the job, and moyes said "It's not my decision, my job it to prepare the team going forward now...". Definitely not as sure with his answer as before whenever he said he has the full backing.
We may have been able to seriously compete for the EPL title if SAF remained for another year and I expected Moyes to take United at a top 4 spot. However this team cycle was at its end. Rio is 35, Vidic and Evra had shown clear signs of decline, CM couldn't be ignored any longer while the flanks clearly lacked the quality of old times
If you ask me, I felt that SAF had mellowed too much to spear head another major change. Take CM. Fletcher, Scholes, Giggs and Cleverley are all SAF men. He knew them as kids and would have been very hard to anyone to tell them it was time to make space for others. It was time for a change. Its a shame that we had allowed the same person who wasnt able to do the change to actually select the manager whose task would be to do this painful task.
As you said, I have yet to see any denials of anything in the press, unless I have missed them. When the original LVG meeting rumours started at the weekend, there were some vague reports stating that Utd had dismissed the issue to the press association, but no actual statements or quotes, either from Utd or Van Gaal or his representatives.
There does seem to be a shift in the thinking at Utd, ever since the Olympiacos games. Things have not been the same since the 2-0 and even though we scraped through in the end, I think that that period was a turning point for the Glazers. The Liverpool and City results won't have helped along with elimination against Bayern, which in itself is no disgrace but the manner of the elimination was so disappointing. The post match interview with DM after the game ( as @bosnian_red said above ) was also the most unconvincing answer he has given so far.
Hopefully Utd are working in the background and I would guess have been since Olympiacos. Whether or not the Klopp stories are true ( we all hope they are ) I'm not sure, but the LVG stories seem to be the most constant and detailed ones so far.
Could be. Then again it's one of those generic responses you'd expect him to give even if he was 100% certain he won't be fired. He wouldn't say "hell, no - I'm here for life no matter how badly I fare!"
My feeling is still that the board are backing him in what is considered a re-building operation. Whether we like it or not.
But we'll see. I don't think anyone had positively expected us to be lingering in 7th with Liverpool on their way to getting back on the "fecking perch" Fergie famously knocked 'em off. It might be too much - but I do think Moyes was hired with the possibility of a pretty rough season very much taken into account. As I've said before it's not inconceivable that what most fans regard as an absolute disaster (and a sackable offense, so to speak) isn't regarded in quite the same light by the board.
Much of this depends on where Fergie is actually standing at the moment. Is he still considered the best man to judge where we are and where we ought to be going? Is he regretting his recommendation? What sort of relationship does he actually have with the owners? And with Moyes? Many X factors at the moment, I feel.
Agree with that, Fergie might well realize he made a mistake deep down but it'll take a lot for him to admit he's wrong, he's always been incredibly stubborn, and not as ruthless as he once was. I get the feeling that moyes was hired as someone who would keep us doing what we were doing, without spending loads. A glazer man if you will. Don't think they expected us to fall so far down the table.
On his answer, generally whenever he was asked the question before it was always "I have always had full backing and confidence from the board and nothing has changed". Now saying it's not his decision if he gets the sack and leaving it at that is quite a big difference, not just a generic response. That might just be the optimist in me looking at things though.
Unless Moyes loses all the remaining games, there is no chance that he will be replaced this summer. Even then, the board will still be giving him the opportunity to put it right next season. It's all speculation due to VG declaring he wants to coach in the EPL after the World Cup. He'll be going to Spurs.
I'd say the Glazers are bricking it more than us at this point. We're supposed to be guaranteed top four every year without having to spend obscene amounts. We're now not even guaranteed top four if we spend £100m.
Of course there's a chance, a massive one. Where do people get this idea he's invulnerable? Every non-United fan I speak to think he's a goner at the end of the season because he's been so shit. I'm not sure whether it's United fans protecting themselves just in case he doesn't go or if people really do think we're "different to other clubs", but it's odd that so many think he's certain to stay.
Says who? And cut the crap about "The United Way".
It is an absolutely massive rebuilding project.
Not only do we essentially require an entirely new midfield - from the anchorman, to the engine, to the widemen we require at least half a new defence!
Any manager can pluck out decent players and shove them together but creating a team capable of being successful and playing genuinely impressive stuff, that is a massive ask.
We won't lose every one of these but from Vidic, Evra, Rio, Giggs, Carrick (I'm not convinced he'll be as involved if we manage to get these new players in), Nani, Young, Cleverley, Fletcher, Kagawa, Hernandez and van Persie we could see a number leave or be binned over the next 2 years. That isn't even just hearsay, that is very much the reality.
It's an undeniably huge rebuilding process. The day Sir Alex finished, many of the names above did too. It's not a 'Moyesism' - some of the sympathy towards him is fair, there are many players at the club who aren't good enough or are simply finished at the absolute highest level, and yes I genuinely believe that. One thing every manager needs is a core group of players that he has brought in or brought through. For now, Fellaini and Rooney aside Moyes doesn't have that.
I think you're confusing people's arguments about what we should do, with discussion over what we will do.
Jaap said that he doesn't think the board will fire him, and there's plenty of evidence to support that. The club gone out of their way to bang on about how it's a long term appointment, and he won't be judged on the first season. Plus, as many people have gleefully pointed out "at any other club he'd be gone by now" - whihc shows that the board are sticking to their stated policy, beyond the point that most clubs would.
Of course, everybody has their limits, and it's possible that we'll reun out of patience and he'll go at the end of the season, but it's at least equally likely that he won't.
Actually Jaap said "there is no chance they'll fire him", which is somewhat different from your version that a sacking is as likely as not sacking.
Well said. You can love Moyes, or hate him, or neither - but a realist is probably well advised to be prepared for another season under him. I fear for the climate of the Caf over the summer, going into next season. The amount of completely unrealistic hopes in the air could spell...I don't know. I think at one point a sane fan needs to ask himself what he's going to do if Moyes stays on. Give him half a chance? Or keep moaning, pining for Klopp or whatever it is people are doing?
At this point I honestly find it hard to even care if he stays or goes. But I would encourage people to consider that Moyes being our manager next season is a very real possibility.
Not sure there's much else we can do...
I read the post perfectly fine thanks. If you'd cared to include the context of my post you'd see it responded to the broader point of there being "no chance" he'd get fired. People can think he'll stay all they want, they can even think it likely, but saying there's no chance is absurd.
What a flippin disgrace if any of this is true.
Your man Ferguson handpicked Moyes and you don't even have the good graces to give him more than one season to make his mark? He's been left with a rebuilding job of immense proportions. It's not his fault he's been left with the likes of Cleverly, Anderson and Evra. He needs time to get his own men in before he can be judged properly.
Instead all the fans are placing their trust in greedy owners rather than listen to their own greatest legend who you can at least trust to want what is best for the football club and not his own balance sheet.
Your man Ferguson handpicked Moyes and you don't even have the good graces to give him more than one season to make his mark? He's been left with a rebuilding job of immense proportions. It's not his fault he's been left with the likes of Cleverly, Anderson and Evra. He needs time to get his own men in before he can be judged properly.
Instead all the fans are placing their trust in greedy owners rather than listen to their own greatest legend who you can at least trust to want what is best for the football club and not his own balance sheet.
Well, there's the "give him half a chance" idea. Let's say he actually manages to land some juicy targets over the summer. We could be starting the season with an on-paper first rate midfield, for instance. Then, if he shows himself perfectly incapable of using it properly - go on a historical moan fest, and rightly so.
In your rush to lecture me I think you've rather missed the point. JaapStam1986 was stating it as a fact. It is not a fact and I was challenging him on that.
He's had a chance. He took over a team which won the league by a mile and has taken them to slightly better than mid-table.
What a flippin disgrace if any of this is true.
Your man Ferguson handpicked Moyes and you don't even have the good graces to give him more than one season to make his mark? He's been left with a rebuilding job of immense proportions. It's not his fault he's been left with the likes of Cleverly, Anderson and Evra. He needs time to get his own men in before he can be judged properly.
Instead all the fans are placing their trust in greedy owners rather than listen to their own greatest legend who you can at least trust to want what is best for the football club and not his own balance sheet.
Heh. Now, watch 'em bite - that's how low we've fallen.
Do you not think he's been given a chance. Let alone a half chance?
Damn. You're right. This is brand new information to me. I need some time to digest it.
He's been given a chance, a community chest and all the free parking.
Not with a first rate midfield, he hasn't.* We need to strengthen this team. That has nothing to do with Moyes. We shouldn't be 7th, everyone knows that - including Moyes, I would think. But there are mitigating circumstances for Moyes' failure so far.
* Oh, Fellaini, Fabregas, scandalous transfer policy, etc. Water, bridge, done to death. He gets another go at it, I'm a patient and forgiving man.
Guardiola, Mourinho, and Pellegrini seem to be doing just fine this season, just to name a few.
Personally I feel Moyes should be given the opportunity to right the wrongs. Yes, he brought in a last-minute transfer in Fellaini last summer. Not the greatest signing but not the worst. However, he did redeem himself by bringing in Juan Mata in January. Thanks to RVP's injury, he has thrived in the No.10 role. Even striking up a partnership with Kagawa (which I hope makes Moyes think twice about letting Kagawa go).
Despite all that's happened this season, we should at least give the guy the summer to bring in a few world-class players, allow them to bed in during pre-season, take the few positives from this season and see what happens during the first few months of next season. If we see a massive improvement. Well done, Moyes. If not and things are the same, if not worse, then we should think about managerial changes come Christmas.
Despite all that's happened this season, we should at least give the guy the summer to bring in a few world-class players, allow them to bed in during pre-season, take the few positives from this season and see what happens during the first few months of next season. If we see a massive improvement. Well done, Moyes. If not and things are the same, if not worse, then we should think about managerial changes come Christmas.
spot on mate
- Status