Well said.
US Politics
- Thread starter Nick 0208 Ldn
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Well said.
Agreed
Classic by you in fairness, you don't waver.
Let’s see what they say in the end. The other cases are generally accepted as such because they meet the definition of intent.
No he doesn't but he's broadly correct though
Classic by you in fairness, you don't waver.
What were these other genocides that were commonly accepted as such at the time and which were as supported and funded as this one?
Classic by you in fairness, you don't waver.
Also, the question of why Gaza exactly has been answered countless times and should be clear to anyone.
It's funny that the students are demanded to adhere to the rules and face the consequences when the US president has been personally bending the laws to get and do what he wants for the last seven months. His behaviour is usually excused by the same people who are demonizing the students.
That's a different question than the labelling of this conflict as a genocide.
OK, then ignore the second half for a minute.
And according to civil servants, the US is sitting with a ton of evidence that the US is breaking international law sending arms to Israel and these students (and US citizens that might not agree) are paying with its taxes the aid packages that are breaking international law.
Shouldn't they protest for that? Or only the students that are paying 30k and can't go to class and FOR SURE they will be refunded their tuiton are to be pittied?
Is pathetic that we equating the right to go to class (that again, they will be refunded if the disruption is total) vs a genocide happening with the help of your government (lives can't be refunded)
Of course, students (and everyone else) have a right to protest. Their rights end when they infringe on other people's rights. Nobody is saying that they can't protest.
There we go again. Lets protest without bothering anyone. Like it ever achieved anything. Lets do it in Habbo hotel and make it cute
Care to give an example of a US sponsored genocide recently?
Something I definitely don't do is to mock students being punished for protesting against genocide.
There are none, and neither is this until such time as further investigation is done into Israeli intent of going into Gaza. There however plenty of war crimes (as there are in most wars) which will need to be looked at, as would be claims of ethnic cleansing by moving Gazans all over the map to accomodate the war as well as settler violence onto West Bank Palestinians. Each of these are different questions with different definitions and shouldn't be conflated.
What prompted me to comment your post was the obvious tone of mockery you used against these students when it's obvious they're doing something noble and their hearts are definitely in the right place. Why did you feel the need to do this?
And breaking a few windows and locking a few buildings is as far as protest can get from having carte blanche. Can you imagine telling a woman 100 years ago "look, protest all you want, but your protest is not special, so please don't break any rules". It's ridiculous, children being killed by the dozens daily with the government support and here you are, mocking and downplaying those protesting the government for their support. It boggles the mind. Some issues are clearly deserving of an overreaction, and genocide is one.
People have been for weeks now using all kinds of exaggeration to portray these kids as delinquents. At the same time, downplaying the genocide and violations of international law committed daily by the US and israel.
Then why did you bring it up?
Trump.
Oh, you're still in the denial phase. Little point in discussing with someone who still denies the obvious.
Honestly, how can someone who obviously consumes lots of news still not see what is happening in gaza right now. Unbelievable.
I don't mock students for doing it. I do have disdain when their protests become violent, or break laws.
Today I learned something can't be a genocide until the ICC has said so, which will probably be a decade down the line.
Seriously, what more proof of intent is needed? If the vile statements from Netanyahu, Herzog, Ben-Gvir (who venerated a mass murderer, let's not forget), etc. are not enough, what about the simple fact of so actively denying food into a starving area - not only by the IDF, but also some Israelis not in uniform.
Anyone waiting for some authority to slap a certain label on this either has an agenda or is kidding themselves.
Seriously, what more proof of intent is needed? If the vile statements from Netanyahu, Herzog, Ben-Gvir (who venerated a mass murderer, let's not forget), etc. are not enough, what about the simple fact of so actively denying food into a starving area - not only by the IDF, but also some Israelis not in uniform.
Anyone waiting for some authority to slap a certain label on this either has an agenda or is kidding themselves.
They have been mocked in this thread.
Protests often break laws, it's kinda implicit. From what I've seen these protesters didn't break any serious laws, I saw some broken windows, occupied buildings... seems pretty tame considering what they're up against.
While I don't condone it, that's a fair comment. My bigger concern is how our inept media is intent on vilifying the protesters and trying to paint it like the sky is falling here because of it, while ignoring the atrocities Israel is doing with our support. It plays right in the hands of this Israeli regime.
How do you view the sit-ins during the civil rights movement? The blocking of roads, the riots, Rosa Park, all those things. All illegal.
I wouldn't call it "funny", it's been that way for decades. As my mom put it "It's the 60's all over again."
Is the cause of the students and protesters at this moment a just one? I think it is, just as the cause was just in the eras of civil rights and Vietnam. In those moments the protesters were beaten, arrested, jailed and more, but it was the power of those images that caused the radical changes that followed. Civil disobedience is just that, disobedience.
Yep, all illegal and it was because they were illegal that the actions of Rosa Parks and others had the impact they did. Right?
Right. So the "all protests are equal", "all law breaks should be treated the same", it all sounds a bit ghoulish, no? If someone cheered on universities forcing black students to write essays on how they're wrong and uninformed for protesting for their rights, then they'd presumably be a massive racist and an idiot.
Sure, but that is conflating what is moral/just and what is legal/fair. If a university says "If you protest during graduation, we will withhold your diploma" that is, to me, an unjust rule. However, if a student goes ahead and protests during graduation then the fallout from those actions can not be seen as surprising or unfair. Unjust? Absolutely.
Sure, that's reasonable, but what the two people above us agreed with was that students shouldn't protest this and that, and if they did then this and that should follow. They don't care about what they're protesting, just whether or not the students are breaking the rules. That's insane enough in and of itself, but apparently any opposing view to that is terrifying.
I don't think any of the students are surprised by the fact that they're getting villified, beaten up, ostriziced. That's par for the course, they knew what they were getting themselves into. I'm talking about the people cheering that on.
Got it, then I think we are on the same page.
I think that most will agree that some rules and laws need to be set in a society but also know that some rules and laws are not right or fair.
We can mostly agree that rules and laws need to be policed but also that the policing of those rules and laws should be appropriate to the rules being broken and that excessive force, violence and oppression shouldn't happen.
We can mostly agree that some form of punishment is often necessarily issued to those who break laws and rules but also think that severity of punishment should correspond to the rules being broken and that often punishments are unfairly given.
And I think that we can also agree that after all the above is considered, that "moral", "right", "just" actions - however one defines these things, can be and sometimes should be taken, regardless of the legal consequences.
Where you draw the line on each of these areas will be different for each person but I think it's fair to say that the largely peaceful student protests have been harrassed, smeared, abused, violently attacked, recieved excessive force, been peanalised and punished far beyond what is reasonable, in a liberal, free, open society. Now if you do want a more oppressive, authoritarian society then you can argue that the action by the politicians and media and police is correct, however if this is what you do want (and I suspect many do), then don't expect to be able to trot out the peaceful, "freedom and democracy" cliches without mockery and pushback. Particularly when you (politicians, media, police enforcement) are regularly seen breaking laws with impunity.
We can mostly agree that rules and laws need to be policed but also that the policing of those rules and laws should be appropriate to the rules being broken and that excessive force, violence and oppression shouldn't happen.
We can mostly agree that some form of punishment is often necessarily issued to those who break laws and rules but also think that severity of punishment should correspond to the rules being broken and that often punishments are unfairly given.
And I think that we can also agree that after all the above is considered, that "moral", "right", "just" actions - however one defines these things, can be and sometimes should be taken, regardless of the legal consequences.
Where you draw the line on each of these areas will be different for each person but I think it's fair to say that the largely peaceful student protests have been harrassed, smeared, abused, violently attacked, recieved excessive force, been peanalised and punished far beyond what is reasonable, in a liberal, free, open society. Now if you do want a more oppressive, authoritarian society then you can argue that the action by the politicians and media and police is correct, however if this is what you do want (and I suspect many do), then don't expect to be able to trot out the peaceful, "freedom and democracy" cliches without mockery and pushback. Particularly when you (politicians, media, police enforcement) are regularly seen breaking laws with impunity.
Well said.
I don't believe so. They stood by for hours, letting them do whatever they wanted.
The police naturally haven't been investigating any of this.
Heads you lose tails I win
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/15/sonoma-state-president-leave-gaza-00158285
California State University placed Sonoma State campus President Mike Lee on leave Wednesday after he agreed to protesters’ demands to involve them in university decision-making and pursue divestment from Israel.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/15/sonoma-state-president-leave-gaza-00158285
California State University placed Sonoma State campus President Mike Lee on leave Wednesday after he agreed to protesters’ demands to involve them in university decision-making and pursue divestment from Israel.
About Biden on protests:
Dems and the GOP are both pushing each other further right, which for Dems means unleashing the cops and letting the counter-protestors have their way, and for the GOP means murder. Both paarties are in line with the public which dislikes protests.