Yes to a point but marking well is a defensive skill that should come no matter what. Him and his partner left a huge gap. Superb cross though
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Clean sheets
- 17
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 4
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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I know it’s not ok to write positive things on thread, but in general I think he’s improved his aerial game lately. He challenges more than before. In the Euros there are only 6 players out of 341 who have won more aerials than him and of them, only two CBs.
Who are the 2 cbs?
So this is the best shot I could get. It's an absolute peach of a cross the way it drops in.
Last minute of games though need last minute heroics and, sadly, Lindy didn't rise to the challenge
It really is an excellent ball in. The attacker shouldn't be so open between the CBs like that, though. One of them needs to be right up against him, preferably the guy who is goal side.
Hummels and Glik if I remember correctly.
Even if people put a blame on the other player behind him, what was Lindelof doing anyway not marking anyone or even trying to anticipate the ball. That was ball watching defending for Sweden which something we often see in Lindelof. Watching the ball without realising where opposition striker was, loves to let the ball or cross goes past him and hoping someone else to clear it. It’s not coincidence we conceded similar goals.
Agreed. If he was right up against the striker trying to go for the ball but just outmuscled, it would be unfortunate but you could say he was in position. Too often we let goals in like this where players get in untouched and its often with Lindelof playing. He has enough attributes to be part of this squad, but we need a better & more consistent starting CB if we want to challenge for the PL
Decent tournament. Plays his best when the team concedes possesion with lots of men in their own half and playing a low block.
Nothing new we didn't know already. A decent player at best, who really doesn't have any other outstanding qualities to make up for his lack of aggression or assertiveness when defending, passing or closing down threats 1 vs 1 or aerial awareness when he's not reading zonal plays i.e when the game or the play is stretched.
Still can't believe people think he's Maguire equal and even say he's better in some aspects or even matches his passing ability. It's ridiculous how some people will elevate his performances or ability. Could you imagine Lindelof giving the performance Maguire did against Germany today? Not a chance.
The last min goal is typical Lindelof and imo justifies a large portion of the criticism he has been getting. The issue is not that he's a terrible player, the issue is that he's not good enough to be in our first team.
Nothing new we didn't know already. A decent player at best, who really doesn't have any other outstanding qualities to make up for his lack of aggression or assertiveness when defending, passing or closing down threats 1 vs 1 or aerial awareness when he's not reading zonal plays i.e when the game or the play is stretched.
Still can't believe people think he's Maguire equal and even say he's better in some aspects or even matches his passing ability. It's ridiculous how some people will elevate his performances or ability. Could you imagine Lindelof giving the performance Maguire did against Germany today? Not a chance.
The last min goal is typical Lindelof and imo justifies a large portion of the criticism he has been getting. The issue is not that he's a terrible player, the issue is that he's not good enough to be in our first team.
In all fairness, it was the 122nd minute of the game. Tiredness is bound to be a factor. Especially after being down to 10 men for most of extra time.
Got beaten by a great cross if anything.
Lindelof is a good CB. He's not the fastest, not the most physical, but he's still a good CB. The goal today was a great ball and took him and the goalkeeper out. The pace, dip/swerve was immense.
Had a good tournament and was always reliable. Liverpool won the league with VVD's partner being Joe Gomez and at times Dejan Lovren. Leicester won the fecking league with Wes Morgan and Robert Huth.
He's far from the weakest link at United, but also, like a few of his teammates who start most weeks (McTominay or Fred, choose your GK, right forward, long-term CF), there are clear upgrades but it'll be very expensive...so if you splash the cash, you must make sure they are clear upgrades and take you up a level.
Had a good tournament and was always reliable. Liverpool won the league with VVD's partner being Joe Gomez and at times Dejan Lovren. Leicester won the fecking league with Wes Morgan and Robert Huth.
He's far from the weakest link at United, but also, like a few of his teammates who start most weeks (McTominay or Fred, choose your GK, right forward, long-term CF), there are clear upgrades but it'll be very expensive...so if you splash the cash, you must make sure they are clear upgrades and take you up a level.
He had a good tournament but almost everyone would have a good tournament playing for Sweden because the team puts in a collective performance always in defence.
I really hope we get an upgrade for next season so that we can move forward. To be honest Lindelöf is the difference between just getting top 4 and winning the league we need someone more solid.To may times do we concead goals that he’s not obviously at fault for but could have been prevented if he engaged more in his defending duties.
He’s a good squad player to have but, he can’t be starting the majority of our games. He doesn’t bring enough to the table to be a guaranted starter.
I really hope we get an upgrade for next season so that we can move forward. To be honest Lindelöf is the difference between just getting top 4 and winning the league we need someone more solid.To may times do we concead goals that he’s not obviously at fault for but could have been prevented if he engaged more in his defending duties.
He’s a good squad player to have but, he can’t be starting the majority of our games. He doesn’t bring enough to the table to be a guaranted starter.
Too much quality on that cross. No one stops that.
He is very good CB but probably no.3 in major trophy winning United team. You are right that he could be a starter if we have other areas considerably strengthened but you could say the same about say Mctominay that if we got a very good quality CB, he could work in our midfield, etc. IMO CB is more pressing need than GK and CF where we have credible options currently.
Just watched the highlights, how some people think Lindelof is blameless for Ukraine's second goal baffles me, sure it was a majestic cross but Lindelof was the culprit who got Dovbyk onside. Also why is he so allergic to jump?
I'd argue he is one of, if not the weakest link actually.
Hendo
AWB Lindelof Maguire Shaw
Fred Pogba
Bruno
Greenwod Cavani/Martial and Rashford
In a 'realistic' scenario where we'd probably only do 2 big transfers this summer, if we can't get Haaland/Kane/a proper CF then Varane/CB and Sancho makes the above line up a much stronger team than any other combination that might contain your Oblaks or Fabinhos (or similar ilk) etc.
Fred/Greenwood may not ideal current/long term starters (especially with Ole's lack of micro coaching and progressive tactics) but they represent far better value and ability in their respective positions than having a decent at best, passive centre back starting every game. The same could be said about AWB's open play/attacking ability but he posseses standout shut down defensive ability, something Lindelof for all his 'good' reading of the game does not have.
McTominay will not be good enough in a title winning team unless he's the main water carrier in the team. He's the grafter, which you need, but he constantly is let down by his subpar technical ability on the ball and passing ability between the lines. Yes, he'll have his games where he's good and stands out, like most players with consistent playing time, but the middle of the park is a totally different beast.
United have two and a half weaknesses in the spine of their team....GK (half), CB (full), central midfield (full). Have to pick and choose what is upgraded and what can be pieced together to be functional. Central midfield is functional, hence why McTominay and Fred started a lot more, with Pogba as an inside left forward or as part of the two central mids in select matches. I don't mind Pogba switching between the two positions, but it's clear one of Fred or McTominay has to be upgraded from to take that next step.
I'm not sold on Fred and Pogba being the central midfield pairing for majority of games. McTominay and Fred are more functional and give the team more energy and ability to press and win the ball higher without Pogba, that's a known fact. City and Liverpool operate with 3 CMs. Chelsea operate with 3 CBs. That leaves an extra man to mark out a Pogba and/or Bruno. Other teams will just sit deep and have a striker or center mid mark Pogba. No time, no space, no Pogba...his influence will be limited and feed off scraps. Pushing Pogba forward allows him to connect with Shaw and unlock the defense closer to goal along with a Bruno and potentially a Sancho. He can also be an outlet and have players run off him closer to goal and not his defense.
Teams will continue to defend United from inside and out, try not to get beat through the middle and keep Pogba and Bruno away from the middle through congestion and force them to pass wide or attempt early high balls over the top, which has worked before, but it takes good passing, vision and time.. Lindelof has done this quite a few times to Rashford and others.
I would gladly take Varane and he should start over Lindelof, but at what cost. Bin off Bailly, keep Tuanzebe, there's your four CBs (not including Jones or a youth/academy player).
I have seen the last goal multiple times now and I think the ball was a bit out of his reach to deal with.
However I have seen this style of play from him before where if he had tried, he could have cleared the ball by himself but he always lets it go hoping someone else deals with it. This was another example as he doesn't even bother to clear/divert/do something to the delivery and hopes someone else deals with it. Too passive.
Again, before people take out their pitchforks, I don't blame him for the goal. I am mostly annoyed by his passive approach especially when dealing with aerial balls.
However I have seen this style of play from him before where if he had tried, he could have cleared the ball by himself but he always lets it go hoping someone else deals with it. This was another example as he doesn't even bother to clear/divert/do something to the delivery and hopes someone else deals with it. Too passive.
Again, before people take out their pitchforks, I don't blame him for the goal. I am mostly annoyed by his passive approach especially when dealing with aerial balls.
Unless we have a radical situation where we sell or drop Pogba then the likelyhood of having Pogba play in a two but hopefully a three (by dropping Bruno a bit deeper more in line) is very likely. Ole is not going to drop Rashford from the left wing and if he does, then he will either play CF or right wing. Whether or not Pogba goes or plays left wing, then our areas in need of replacements are still at CF, RW, CM and CB.
Unless there is a Kante/Fabinho type of quality available, the CM targets are bit of a moot point unless we change things drastically tactically. However, RW/CB are two areas where there is quality available and would be improve us straight away as Haaland/Kane seem like long shots. So nothing changes imo, a CB is much larger concern than CM.
As for the bolded bit, it's exactly why we play Pogba in the middle because we have no passing penetrating ability once Bruno is marked out of the game. It's exactly why we need a more dominant CB to help shore up the back and allow us to play more on the front foot. Relying or expecting on Lindelof to step up in midfield and be a playmaker from the back consistently is highly unlikely based on history. Firstly, Maguire is the one, who does that for us and is a far superior all around player and despite a couple of good long balls, Lindelof is a not consistent ball carrier or risk taker, who passes through the lines. So in essence replacing Lindelof makes for a a more solid spine and is key if we want to sustain pressure. It won't improve us the way a VVD transfer will do but it's a knock on effect.
Did you not see Lindelof was the one who got that Ukrainian player onside?
Some United fans seem to live for every little opportunity to shit on their "favorite" United player. I do get that people are upset when Pogba loses the ball in dangerous places, Rashford dribbles instead of passes or Lindelöf makes mistakes when they're playing for United but to come here as a United fan to simply go "LOOK HOW POOR HE WAS IN THIS SITUATION RIGHT HERE!", especially during international games, while also completely ignoring or downplaying all the positive things they've done is just downright weird.
It's fine to dislike players and not want them at United, we all do to various degrees, but I'll never understand this absurd need to get everyone else to see how right you are in disliking a player by constantly highlighting the negatives, and only the negatives.
Passing from the back into midfield is something Lindelof and Maguire are comfortable doing. Maguire playing left center has the luxury of passing to Shaw and Fred on the left. Lindelof passes to McTominay and AWB on the right. I would want McTominay or AWB to have the ball...they shouldn't be beating me. Especially McTominay.
Pogba is an orthodox central midfielder which is why he's there, but how the team functions at an optimal level has shown it depends. And it shouldn't be that way, but as you pointed out...2 CMs, not leaving out Rashford or he plays as a CF.
Having that CM who could mould a Pogba and Bruno trifecta, with a different and more measured Bruno could work, but cannot say it will without a third technically efficient 8 and until it's actually played out.
The team is getting closer and finding players who can step in and be of the required quality in CB and CM based on transfer info.
But CM will have to be addressed twice over within the next two summers. One for Pogba and one for Matic. Cannot go with Garner, McTominay, and Fred within 2 years. There's a huge talent gap regardless.
Good post. Sad to see some comments on your own players...
As a defender, you don't always have to mark the man.
His defensive partner was sent off earlier in the game, leading to a lack of cohesion.
In this instance the defensive duo were in a pretty good spot, but the ball was inch perfect, if anything the second defender should have tucked in more, Lindelof was in the perfect position.
As I said i'm not completely blaming him, the cross completely takes him out of it.
The issue is I think he's over covering the front post when there is zero danger there, if he was a little closer to the only man that can score he might have been able to flick at it/put him off.
As I said i'm not completely blaming him, the cross completely takes him out of it.
The issue is I think he's over covering the front post when there is zero danger there, if he was a little closer to the only man that can score he might have been able to flick at it/put him off.
What happened last night cannot be a surprise for United fans. This is Lindelof. We've seen him and we know him. The ball from outwide is his kryptonite.
Lindelof, since he first came to United, is a defender whose best quality (forward running and passing), is mediocre at best. His worst quality, the lack of desire to tackle and put his head in where there is danger makes him a coward. He is very good at shouting at other teammates when he is found out, though.
In a team of Pogba, Bruno, now Sancho, Rashford, Maguire, Shaw, AWB, his lack of talent and continuing presence sticks out like a sore thumb and is insulting to them. Barca once wanted him, we should give him to them for free.
In a team of Pogba, Bruno, now Sancho, Rashford, Maguire, Shaw, AWB, his lack of talent and continuing presence sticks out like a sore thumb and is insulting to them. Barca once wanted him, we should give him to them for free.
Whilst you’re right to a point, it just highlights the type of goal we concede ourselves and some of his weaknesses. Which is why we need a better defender. Not going to bash him too much for yesterday because of tiredness but he watched the ball come in and go across him, and him and the other cb didn’t watch or have an idea that the one person who burst into the box had so much space
Both those players were exceptional headers and strong. They would definitely have weaknesses that Lindelof doesn’t have but they definitely would have had the PL basics
I’m not sure it’s all down to being passive. I think he’s got an issue judging the flight of balls. I also think that it’s something he knows himself so sometimes he doesn’t attempt to
Re Lindelof
I’ve said since day 1 he’s not made for the PL and nothing has changed my mind that he should be a regular pick. He has times where he plays well, often in short bursts before we get another load of questionable defending.
I think in the 2nd half of this season in particular people have come to the same conclusion. The problem is we don’t have anyone reliable to replace him yet. It seems that United will attempt to this summer
Welcome to a football forum
That is just clutching at straws.
Whatever be the reason, we can do with an upgrade on him.
I think you misread the other guys post
He had a decent tournament.
Maguire, Lindelof, Varane, Tuanzebe would be a terrific cohort of CBs.
we need someone with different characteristics to Lindelof, but he should still be part of the squad - he’s a very good CB, just not top class.
Maguire, Lindelof, Varane, Tuanzebe would be a terrific cohort of CBs.
we need someone with different characteristics to Lindelof, but he should still be part of the squad - he’s a very good CB, just not top class.
Lindelof's progressive passing with balls between the lines, whilst under pressure, taking responsibility and effectiveness does not hold a candle to Maguire, who is head and shoulders. Does Lindelof look comfortable on the ball? Yes but don't confuse that and a few very good long balls with actual contributions. Lindelof had all the opportunity to show how much actual passing nous he has against Villareal and we know how that ended.
As for the rest of your post, unless something radical happens with Ole's coaching or Pogba's future with us, a CB replacement is of paramount importance and our best option to improve the squad.
Maguire is better at matriculation the ball forward than Lindelof, through passing and carrying the ball. That's pretty clear and is the frequency of who does it more.
To single out the Final against Lindelof is wrong, but I understand you're trying to emphasize a point. When you have Bailly as your partner and a compact, everything in front of you opposition, there is so few passing lanes where a pass with be meaningful enough from the back line.
When you're on the right side and your typical direct surroundings are McTominay ahead of you and AWB to the right of you, both who are the least comfortable players on the ball of all the outfield players, you can understand why playing vertical balls to them will give you pause.
Lindelof is more about running the ball into space and then when someone comes to confront him playing a pass, and those nice long balls over the top for Rashford's pace that led to several goals and chances. Theres some neat passes into a midfielder occasionally but I see lots of CBs at other clubs do that a lot more often. Same with Maguire, they do it more often than him too
Mate you're having a mare. In the Europa League final, he played left centre back with Shaw, Pogba and Rashford to his side.
Also McT is more than capable of receiving passes to feet. AWB is not the best when it comes to receiving the ball under pressure but it's compounded by the fact Lindelof will rarely take responsibility to carry the ball or open his body other than a 5-10 yard pass to Maguire or AWB. A lot of the passes AWB receives, are to feet under pressure on the right byline because it's come from Lindelof, who leaves him with no option but to take an extra touch and/or be the one who progresses it forward.
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