We actually have a very good squad

[DomesticTadpole]

The squad is very good. 12 months ago we'd be crying for some of the players we have now. Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Herrera, Shaw, Smalling, Martial are all players that would get in virtually any other premier league squad.

We are back to the old chestnut of instead of building on the things that went right last season, he has torn it all up and we have gone backwards. I have stopped listening to MUTV phone-ins as you get the usual "Not fit to wear the shirt" brigade. The same ones who last season were singing these players praises when they beat Liverpool twice and hammered City at OT. We have good players, need some more but mainly we either need a change of focus from the manager or a new manager.

 

[dogwithabone]

The squad is 'very good' perhaps but in what context ? Very good compared to maybe Everton, Liverpool, Leicester but light years away in quality from City, Bayern and Spain's two. How many of our players would get anywhere near any of those squads ? De Gea, Shaw, Martial, Smalling, then who ? The squad is unbalanced and its aging in all the wrong areas. If you were picking a United side to try and guarantee a result you'd probably still select Schweinsteiger, Carrick, Rooney, Mata and Young and that's just too much immobility in vital areas of the pitch.

 

[Lentwood]

The squad is 'very good' perhaps but in what context ? Very good compared to maybe Everton, Liverpool, Leicester but light years away in quality from City, Bayern and Spain's two. How many of our players would get anywhere near any of those squads ? De Gea, Shaw, Martial, Smalling, then who ? The squad is unbalanced and its aging in all the wrong areas. If you were picking a United side to try and guarantee a result you'd probably still select Schweinsteiger, Carrick, Rooney, Mata and Young and that's just too much immobility in vital areas of the pitch.

I don't exactly disagree with you but I think our problem is more that our back-up or fringe players are massively inferior to City's. If you made an XI, you would have to get Smalling, Shaw, Martial, De Gea in there without question - and could easily make a case for either Schneiderlin or Schweinsteiger over one of their midfield two. The Matteo Darmian we saw for the first 6/7 games would also run Sagna close at RB.

Problem we have is when one or two injuries creep in or one or two need a break or are low on confidence. Look at that side we put out against Bournemouth, it wouldn't have finished top 6 in the Championship! I think our squad players are mid table at best and this is where we constantly come up short

We also carry one or two passengers (Mata, Rooney, Fellaini) on a regular basis who would get nowhere near City's team on current form

 

[pacifictheme]

I don't exactly disagree with you but I think our problem is more that our back-up or fringe players are massively inferior to City's. If you made an XI, you would have to get Smalling, Shaw, Martial, De Gea in there without question - and could easily make a case for either Schneiderlin or Schweinsteiger over one of their midfield two. The Matteo Darmian we saw for the first 6/7 games would also run Sagna close at RB.

Problem we have is when one or two injuries creep in or one or two need a break or are low on confidence. Look at that side we put out against Bournemouth, it wouldn't have finished top 6 in the Championship! I think our squad players are mid table at best and this is where we constantly come up short

We also carry one or two passengers (Mata, Rooney, Fellaini) on a regular basis who would get nowhere near City's team on current form

DDG, Smalling and Shaw get in. Martial doesn't for me. Schneirderlin possibly in midfield.

For me its the system that our players struggle with. Mata is widely criticised and at the moment its fair, but he was phenomenal at Chelsea, so its not him thats the problem.

I do think our first 11 and squad is pretty poor though. We only have one first choice cb at the club. Two of our three midfield options are in the twilight of their careers, to be polite. We have no real wingers of genuine quality and we rely on an inconsistent 20 year old to win us matches.

And lvg still doesn't know what formation he wants to play. 352, 4231, 433? Who knows.

 

[finneh]

The squad is 'very good' perhaps but in what context ? Very good compared to maybe Everton, Liverpool, Leicester but light years away in quality from City, Bayern and Spain's two. How many of our players would get anywhere near any of those squads ? De Gea, Shaw, Martial, Smalling, then who ? The squad is unbalanced and its aging in all the wrong areas. If you were picking a United side to try and guarantee a result you'd probably still select Schweinsteiger, Carrick, Rooney, Mata and Young and that's just too much immobility in vital areas of the pitch.

I think because of the dire tactics our judgment and views on a fair few of our players is getting clouded. I wouldn't compare us to Bayern/Barcelona/Real as they have better teams now than arguably United have had in the last few decades, certainly better teams than we've had for the majority of the last few decades.

In terms of Premier League teams though I'd say De Gea, Shaw, Smalling, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger & Martial would get into almost any team in the League. That's more than half a team (although a very defensively heavy team admittedly). Add into that players who when on form would get into almost every team, such as Mata/Herrera and you have a very good basis for a top class team.

It's easy to watch the shite we've been serving up under Van Gaal over the last few months and assume that we're 10 players short of a good squad, but in reality we're a couple of quality players and one quality manager away.

 

[Smores]

A quality striker and another winger and this team should be able to easily compete for the title, people always overestimate the quality you need to win a league. We've done it with much worse.

The manager will have to go first though. We're only going to win things under LvG if we secure one of the world's best attackers who will do it all on their own through their brilliance.

 

[VorZakone]

Need a better partner for Schneiderlin, Carrick/Schweinsteiger aren't cutting it anymore IMO. A new quality winger should also sort out the right wing.

 

[sunama]

Take out De Gea and Schweinsteiger (just for 'prestige' reasons, not quality) and this could easily be Tottenham's team. In fact, Redknapp's Tottenham team looked better on paper, which translated to better football.
If someone told you, three years ago, that this was Tottenham's future line-up, you wouldn't be shocked (quality wise), and you'd probably say they'd regressed. You definitely wouldn't say these players were too good for Tottenham.

No one can seriously look at that team and expect them to be one of the very best in England.

I do agree with this.
A net spend of £170M (or whatever it is) is quite incredible when you think of the players we have.
I'd also add that this squad is definitely capable of better than the relegation form (draws/losses) we recently displayed.

 

[sunama]

A quality striker and another winger and this team should be able to easily compete for the title, people always overestimate the quality you need to win a league. We've done it with much worse.

I partially agree.
Our last title though, contained RVP, who was fantastic that year.
And lets not discount the 'Fergie Effect'. which enabled him to turn good players into World beaters.

 

[Parma Dewol]

I agree with the sentiment that we've got a very good squad, but so many changes in such a short period of time is bound to have had an impact. This squad hasn't been together long enough, and in some games it really shows. It's a lot to ask for one new player to come in and hit the ground running - for so many to do it is practically unheard of.

 

[Adebesi]

I agree with the sentiment that we've got a very good squad, but so many changes in such a short period of time is bound to have had an impact. This squad hasn't been together long enough, and in some games it really shows. It's a lot to ask for one new player to come in and hit the ground running - for so many to do it is practically unheard of.

Agreed. I think this is Van Gaal's biggest problem, I think this is why he is having such a problem getting them to play well, I dont think its entirely about what he is asking them to do.

The only word I would query in your post is "practically". Has it ever been done, that 1/2 a team has been replaced in one summer, and 3/4 of it in 2 years, and it has gone on to win things / play brilliantly immediately? City certainly didnt. I cant remember the specifics with Chelsea, I dont think they went quite as fast as we did.

 

[Beachryan]

I think part of it is that there just isn't a huge difference between the very best of the premier league, and the tier of players directly below that. A combination of management, form, injuries and luck is what makes the difference.

Look at players like Lukaku, Ighalo, Vardy, Cabaye - hell even Scott Dann. They're all probably in the team of the season in the prem and we're 20 matches in. But none of them would displace the 'big names' if you were asked who the best players in the prem are (Aguero, Hazard, Toure, Kompany, Sanchez etc).

It just once again highlights how big a difference a manager can make. Players like O'Shea, Fletcher, Hernandez, Brown, Heinze - they're all good but they're not the very best - despite that they were crucial in winning loads of trophies. Quality wise, I'd have peak Schneiderlein, Herrera, Mata over any of them, but we're just not getting the best out of our players.

Whoever comes in after LVG will inherit a much better squad than what Moyes had to work with. If there's one thing you can give the Dutchman, it's that. I think that's largely the reason that so many people want LVG out - this squad of players is capable of so much more, and LVG himself seems to be the limiting factor.

We really only need 1 class forward player and some luck with injuries and we're in decent shape.

 

[Parma Dewol]

Agreed. I think this is Van Gaal's biggest problem, I think this is why he is having such a problem getting them to play well, I dont think its entirely about what he is asking them to do.

The only word I would query in your post is "practically". Has it ever been done, that 1/2 a team has been replaced in one summer, and 3/4 of it in 2 years, and it has gone on to win things / play brilliantly immediately? City certainly didnt. I cant remember the specifics with Chelsea, I dont think they went quite as fast as we did.

You're right, it probably hasn't ever been done. Making it even tougher, a lot of the newer squad members at United are from different countries, and that only adds to the challenge. Should also be said that Van Gaal can't use this as an excuse, it was his choice to make wholesale changes, but maybe new signings and more changes aren't the answer, maybe the squad just needs more time.

 

[Cassidy]

You're right, it probably hasn't ever been done. Making it even tougher, a lot of the newer squad members at United are from different countries, and that only adds to the challenge. Should also be said that Van Gaal can't use this as an excuse, it was his choice to make wholesale changes, but maybe new signings and more changes aren't the answer, maybe the squad just needs more time.

Its definitely still lacking obvious pace and individual ability in the attacking third.

 

[Adebesi]

.. Though following on from what I said above, that excuse is wearing thin now. I didnt expect us to look great at the start of the season but I did think by 2H things would be picking up, and we are there now, and they arent. I wasnt expecting things to magically improve on Jan 1st but he has to get this team playing better, very soon. If he doesnt, he has no real excuse. It was, presumably, his decision to make so many changes (I say presumably because maybe Woodward had a say as well), and if he felt it would be as disruptive as this, perhaps he should have changed things more slowly.

 

[Adebesi]

You're right, it probably hasn't ever been done. Making it even tougher, a lot of the newer squad members at United are from different countries, and that only adds to the challenge. Should also be said that Van Gaal can't use this as an excuse, it was his choice to make wholesale changes, but maybe new signings and more changes aren't the answer, maybe the squad just needs more time.

Aha yes, agreed, just said the same but I see you beat me to it.

 

[SambaBoy]

It cannot compete with the European elite anymore IMO. De Gea is world class, and the 2nd best in his position in the world but no-one else even comes close to the top 10 for the respective position in the world apart from Smalling which is based on form rather than any sustained period of quality compared to Silva, Boateng, Ramos, Pique, Chiellini and Bonucci.

Schweinsteiger is definitely in the top 10, but we haven't seen the Schwein yet and if he keeps up this form then he will no longer be regarded as a world-class/top class CM anymore.

In a few years time barring any major injuries or decline from injuries then Luke Shaw and Anthony Martial will be top 10 for their positions. Januzaj and Depay have potential but they haven't produced at the top level yet or have only shown glimpses.

I appreciate that no club is going to be jam packed with the best for their position but Barca/Real/Bayern all their positions are filled with top 10 players, even City/Juventus.

The likes of Schneiderlin and Herrera are good players, and can make up an 11 but their not world-class. After that, squad players are needed and are vital for a squad, but not when you have 4-6 of them who start every week which we do in Valencia, Rojo, Mata, Fellaini, Jones, Blind, Rooney, Darmian, Lingard.

 

[#07]

Our squad is easily good enough to win the title. We are nine points off the top. Think of the teams we have lost to e.g. Swansea, Bournemouth, Norwich. Teams that with these players we should really be able to squeeze past.

Van Gaal simply isn't getting the best out of his players. That is exemplified by the fact that players he's sold, more often than not, have gone on to perform really well at their new clubs.

The problem is not the squad, the problem is the squad is being badly managed.

 

[Cheesy]

We have the makings of a good squad (not great, but good), but it often feels more like a collection of players than an actual, cohesive squad. LVG doesn't seem sure how to fit numerous players into it who seem to have various defined positions, which is fine with some utility players, but not when it feels like so many of our players (especially attacking) don't seem to have a defined role/position in the team, and don't really have a consistent starting place either.

 

[Parma Dewol]

I'm currently reading Ferguson's book, Leading, so look away now if you don't want spoilers.

I've just finished the chapter where he's talking about building a team, and there is some interesting insight. I particularly enjoyed the bit where he says that football is played and won by a team of 8, as it's inevitable 2-3 players will underperform on the day. If I remember right, he only recalled two instances when all 11 players were performing at their peak - an FA Cup win over Wimbledon and the 7-1 against Roma in the Champions League.

Sounds logical, and he's probably right, you're rarely going to get all 11 singing in harmony, but it made me think, how many players do we have playing at their best in any given game? In my opinion you can usually count them on one hand. De Gea, Smalling and Martial can usually be relied on, but so many of the others go missing it's unreal. If 8 of our first team played at their best tonight, we'd have enough to beat Newcastle.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

We have the makings of a good squad (not great, but good), but it often feels more like a collection of players than an actual, cohesive squad. LVG doesn't seem sure how to fit numerous players into it who seem to have various defined positions, which is fine with some utility players, but not when it feels like so many of our players (especially attacking) don't seem to have a defined role/position in the team, and don't really have a consistent starting place either.

I think we will have to become good again, before we can become great again. As a good side we can improve the squad. If we fall further it might become impossible. This manager will make that difficult. Players will be watching what is going on at United, we are big news. Would they want to play in this system? Highly unlikely. He is very likely wanting to get more players and change the system, but the damage may have been done already.

 

[#07]

I'm currently reading Ferguson's book, Leading, so look away now if you don't want spoilers.

I've just finished the chapter where he's talking about building a team, and there is some interesting insight. I particularly enjoyed the bit where he says that football is played and won by a team of 8, as it's inevitable 2-3 players will underperform on the day. If I remember right, he only recalled two instances when all 11 players were performing at their peak - an FA Cup win over Wimbledon and the 7-1 against Roma in the Champions League.

Sounds logical, and he's probably right, you're rarely going to get all 11 singing in harmony, but it made me think, how many players do we have playing at their best in any given game? In my opinion you can usually count them on one hand. De Gea, Smalling and Martial can usually be relied on, but so many of the others go missing it's unreal. If 8 of our first team played at their best tonight, we'd have enough to beat Newcastle.

Its funny. In 2009/10 you can argue that a lot of the time only Rooney, Fletcher, Evra and Van Der Sar played consistently well. Vida and Rio had a lot of good games and Nani was superb after the winter. Yet, Fergie managed to get within a point of the title with only four players really playing consistently good football.

Van Gaal has a team which, arguably, player for player is better than the 2010 side that finished behind Chelsea (some would argue its better than the 2011 side that won the title and got to the European Cup final). Yet Louis 'philosophy' has only got three good games out of them: Spurs (H), Liverpool (A), City (H), last year. How is he still in a job?

 

[Sarni]

This.

This thread title is beyond outrageous. How you can all this squad even moderately good is beyond me. I think there are only 5 players worth keeping.

Exactly. Unless we spend close to billion I'm not going to support this team.

It's true outrage that someone could find current players any good. Most of them were inexpensive.

 

[KingMinger22]

It cannot compete with the European elite anymore IMO. De Gea is world class, and the 2nd best in his position in the world but no-one else even comes close to the top 10 for the respective position in the world apart from Smalling which is based on form rather than any sustained period of quality compared to Silva, Boateng, Ramos, Pique, Chiellini and Bonucci.

Schweinsteiger is definitely in the top 10, but we haven't seen the Schwein yet and if he keeps up this form then he will no longer be regarded as a world-class/top class CM anymore.

In a few years time barring any major injuries or decline from injuries then Luke Shaw and Anthony Martial will be top 10 for their positions. Januzaj and Depay have potential but they haven't produced at the top level yet or have only shown glimpses.

I appreciate that no club is going to be jam packed with the best for their position but Barca/Real/Bayern all their positions are filled with top 10 players, even City/Juventus.

The likes of Schneiderlin and Herrera are good players, and can make up an 11 but their not world-class. After that, squad players are needed and are vital for a squad, but not when you have 4-6 of them who start every week which we do in Valencia, Rojo, Mata, Fellaini, Jones, Blind, Rooney, Darmian, Lingard.

Perfect summary. Though I would argue both Januzaj and Memphis haven't even shown glimpses of quality. They look awful, in fact.

We are lacking at least 5-6 players that should all be top 10 in their positions, and a couple should be top 3. Just to get to a normal level (far from spectacular) of what a top 8 European squad should have.

At market rates, you are talking £300M plus. Just one truly class attacker could run £80m plus.

 

[Sarni]

Players who are clearly good enough to compete for trophies with:

De Gea, Smalling, Schneiderlin (controversial), Martial, Shaw

Players who at some points in their career here or elsewhere were at a level good enough:

Darmian, Schweinsteiger, Herrera, Depay, Rojo, Mata, Young, Blind

So basically we have 5 players who are good enough, 8 players who could be good enough, then some players I'm not sure about (Lingard, Januzaj, Carrick) and some who might not be good enough (Jones, Rooney, Fellaini, Valencia). It's not a terrible squad and it's something to build on but we need to get the best out of more than 2-3 players which is the best we've done in the past 3 years plus we need some attacking talent.

Depends on our ambition obviously. If we want to win CL then it's not good enough. If we want to be around top 4 in the league, it's easily good enough.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Compared to Barca, Real, City, Bayern, PSG our squad is average.

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

World class goalkeeping options
Pretty good defenders,
big depth in midfield but not a lot of quality.
championship frontline.

Bang average overall.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Compared to Barca, Real, City, Bayern, PSG our squad is average.

We have never been able to sign the players Barca or Real have, also a lot of latin players are drawn to those clubs and the welsh it appears. Bayern seem to cream off all the great German talent that people on here lust after. PSG and City just pay ridiculously high wages, theirs is a bottomless pit to outbid and outpay all the clubs. We are a rich club, but despite Ed's bragging there will be a limit.

 

[Shimo]

We have a very good squad if Sir Alex was managing it but, he is not. For years, United have been able to get away with not having a squad perhaps player for player good as Barca, Madrid and later City but, Sir Alex was able to get players that would not get into those sides playing at a very high level and so able to win trophies.

In today's world though - United need to start have the type of players that can get into any side in the world, of which we have very few at the moment. I don't see a Mourinho, Pep or anyone else getting much more out of the current squad - maybe get us comfortably into top 4 but, that's not what this is club is about. For us to legitimately compete at the very highest level, we need to get a top right winger, another center forward, a center back and perhaps even a right back if Darmian can't reproduce some of his early season form consistently. I'd even say a CM to partner with Scheiderlin is something we somewhat need but, if the other areas can be addressed isn't a necessity.

 

[Pexbo]

Players who are clearly good enough to compete for trophies with:

De Gea, Smalling, Schneiderlin (controversial), Martial, Shaw

Players who at some points in their career here or elsewhere were at a level good enough:

Darmian, Schweinsteiger, Herrera, Depay, Rojo, Mata, Young, Blind

So basically we have 5 players who are good enough, 8 players who could be good enough, then some players I'm not sure about (Lingard, Januzaj, Carrick) and some who might not be good enough (Jones, Rooney, Fellaini, Valencia). It's not a terrible squad and it's something to build on but we need to get the best out of more than 2-3 players which is the best we've done in the past 3 years plus we need some attacking talent.

Depends on our ambition obviously. If we want to win CL then it's not good enough. If we want to be around top 4 in the league, it's easily good enough.

I don't agree that Martial falls into that category. I certainly expect him to be there very soon but I don't think he's there just yet.

 

[Cheesy]

I don't agree that Martial falls into that category. I certainly expect him to be there very soon but I don't think he's there just yet.

Even Shaw is arguably a bit of a push considering he'd only really started to hit top form at the start of the season. Him and Martial would probably go into a category of players who we could be almost certain that they'll be top players assuming they continue to develop well. I like Schneiderlin, but I'm not sure he's done enough thus far to warrant being a category above someone like Mata.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Compared to Barca, Real, City, Bayern, PSG our squad is average.

We need forget about Real, Barca and Bayern, and first try to match City. The rest of our team is as good if not better than City's, but the attack is where the real giant gulf lies. Our "front 4" is terrible in comparison to theirs, and that's what the coming summer needs to address big time.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I don't agree that Martial falls into that category. I certainly expect him to be there very soon but I don't think he's there just yet.

He wouldn't be out of place in City's line up and unsurprisingly was the best player in the park on the game against them.

 

[SkeppyRed]

Our attack is decent on paper, but in reality, what counts, it is below average. Nowhere near enough of a mix of complementing styles, let alone quality.

Also the majority of our players are good but not good enough for a starting place in a title winning side. Most would be considered squad options at best. A realistic expectation of this group is a 4-7th place finish.

For example Blind is a tidy intelligent performer but he's not even as good as an 04-09 John Oshea. We have no defender besides Smalling or Shaw as good as Wes Brown was between 05-2010. Now these players weren't even first choice. Therefore a title challenge from our current group is an unrealistic expectation.

Why such an average group was assembled expensively is another argument. My point is that the current squad is not of a very high standard unfortunately and the unexciting style is due to the fact the squad lacks players with flair, skill and imagination. Problem is there is more than one individual to blame for this, so no easy fix.

 

[Pexbo]

He wouldn't be out of place in City's line up and unsurprisingly was the best player in the park on the game against them.

As Cheesy said above, he deserves his own category. I'm just not convinced he's yet at the level of "first teamer for a side competing for trophies".

Who would he displace at City or Arsenal right now?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

As Cheesy said above, he deserves his own category. I'm just not convinced he's yet at the level of "first teamer for a side competing for trophies".

Who would he displace at City or Arsenal right now?

Arsenal's attack is a overrated. They're on track to score 66 odd goals in the league this season, only a few more than we scored under Moyes, and nothing like what we've tended to score in our title winning seasons (80 plus), let alone 13/14 which saw a few teams hit 100 goals.

And Martial has played really well for a team that's really stunk up the league in attack. Can't see him having done any worse than Sterling has at City this season had he been surrounded by that attack. He'd get loads of games for Arsenal as well.

For me, like Sterling, he's already a very very good football, and good enough for a league-winning side whether as an automatic starter, or someone who rotates slightly.

 

[fcbforever]

We have never been able to sign the players Barca or Real have, also a lot of latin players are drawn to those clubs and the welsh it appears. Bayern seem to cream off all the great German talent that people on here lust after. PSG and City just pay ridiculously high wages, theirs is a bottomless pit to outbid and outpay all the clubs. We are a rich club, but despite Ed's bragging there will be a limit.

Regarding Bayern: you are lying to yourself. I know it's aconvenient explaination of our success here, but if we look at our key players, we have bought only Neuer, Götze and Lewandowski from the Bundesliga since 2008. Boateng came from ManCity, some have been homegrown, but most of them have been bought for a reasonable price from other leagues: Robben, D. Costa, Alonso, Benathia, Vidal, Bernat, Martínez, Thiago, Rafinha...

That's what United should do. It's something United once was very good at. Instead you are signing players you don't need, players who are past it and pointless Big Name signings most of the time.

 

[Moonred]

We are decent, capable of playing better than what we have been doing recently. But lack a lot of balance. On form, we are capable of good but far from a 'very good' squad.

 

[KingMinger22]

I find it extremely difficult to imagine us getting good even half of what we need next summer in the transfer market. I will be astounded if we manage to fill 3 of the 6 or so positions we need plugging with the sort of quality we have to get.

 

[Red Pavan]

I think even Messi would struggle to play well in this style and set up.