We are an awfully coached team

Amir said:
Which one or two? Centerhalf and striker? Or a right winger? What about the midfield? And even if we sort all those out, won't we hear excuses about us needing a RB with better attacking qualities? Or a better GK? Or maybe someone else on the left because Rashford is inconsistent? Or another CB because Maguire is too slow? Or quality backup for Fernandes? Or a new creative force if in a couple of years time, while we work on all that, Fernandes has enough and chooses to leave?

Football is a never ending cycle and you are never going to get the team just right through signings. It also takes quality coaching that will make it a team, that will elevate players, that will mask its weaknesses. We may get better players, but we don't have the coaching to complement them.
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Totally agree. Great managers elevate players performance. I don't think Liverpool has great players. Klopp was able to bring the best out of them winning champion league and premier league. With Glazers as owner, I won't think we would ever have money to buy what we need.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
This kind of argument makes no sense to me. There’s no context to it at all and I see it written all the time.

Bwah bwah we’ve spent money and havnt won anything, as if we’re the only ones who are spending any money
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It's the worst and laziest arguement on this forum. Firstly our manager has limited input except that he likes X player. Wages and prices have nothing to do with him.

More importantly it's just a sign we've done awful in the market as a club. It's not a guarantee that because you spend you win.
 
r0663664 said:
Totally agree. Great managers elevate players performance. I don't think Liverpool has great players. Klopp was able to bring the best out of them winning champion league and premier league. With Glazers as owner, I won't think we would ever have money to buy what we need.
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Klopp also gave no attention to Fa Cup or League cup, our fans wouldn't accept that. His best team was always fresh and available.
 
r0663664 said:
Totally agree. Great managers elevate players performance. I don't think Liverpool has great players. Klopp was able to bring the best out of them winning champion league and premier league. With Glazers as owner, I won't think we would ever have money to buy what we need.
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Do mean the players klopp had to buy to make better or do you think he turned his original eleven into champions league winners
 
Leftback99 said:
I never said we were. You say that's what we should be doing. Give me some examples of teams that have made such a big leap from where we were?
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Leicester. They even won the PL and now after getting rid of Ranieri and appointing Rodgers are constantly punching above their weight. And by the way we were 6th when Jose was sacked on the 15th of December. Nothing to say that he would not have got us into the CL spots by the end of the season. Or even to 2nd place too.
Yes he was toxic and needed to go. But if we are judging everyone by the same standards these are the facts.
 
Foxbatt said:
Leicester. They even won the PL and now after getting rid of Ranieri and appointing Rodgers are constantly punching above their weight. And by the way we were 6th when Jose was sacked on the 15th of December. Nothing to say that he would not have got us into the CL spots by the end of the season. Or even to 2nd place too.
Yes he was toxic and needed to go. But if we are judging everyone by the same standards these are the facts.
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How can people have serious debates on here when this kind of stuff is believed
 
bsCallout said:
Klopp also gave no attention to Fa Cup or League cup, our fans wouldn't accept that. His best team was always fresh and available.
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what do you mean? Most of our fans would give up all the cups to win the PL or the CL. We even refused as a club to play in the FA Cup to play in the FIFA Club Championships.
 
Foxbatt said:
what do you mean? Most of our fans would give up all the cups to win the PL or the CL. We even refused as a club to play in the FA Cup to play in the FIFA Club Championships.
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As shown by the crying yesterday of not starting Bruno
 
Foxbatt said:
Why not? We were in the 6th on 15th December. You cannot show any facts.
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I agree, I also think facts show he would have won us the champions league by now if we kept him and Ole and his useless selfish ways didn’t get involved
 
wolvored said:
I watch it also to as see the team win trophies. If not that then what's the point watching football?
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Entertainment? If you're not enjoying watching because we don't play Peps well oiled version of the game then I get it, but that isn't what most people are debating here. Most seemingly believe that football should only be played like a robust oil engine or a computer program which during training installs considered variables and then we watch managers may programmers come together and see which version was better.

If I want to watch a computer simulator run with a project lead, personally I would watch something else, an esport perhaps like DOTA that does exactly what is being asked for. To me, I watch football because of the human element and complexity added via memorable players who make things happen even. Ferguson's United struggled for a time with teams that sat back, when we learned to break those down (whilst not micro managing every decision), our team looked amazing. I'm happy to watch new players work out how to do the same as that in my opinion will lead to long term success. It's those same lessons that were never passed from Ferguson's last team to our current players and in my opinion, is where much of the United way, is really evident.
 
Foxbatt said:
Leicester. They even won the PL and now after getting rid of Ranieri and appointing Rodgers are constantly punching above their weight. And by the way we were 6th when Jose was sacked on the 15th of December. Nothing to say that he would not have got us into the CL spots by the end of the season. Or even to 2nd place too.
Yes he was toxic and needed to go. But if we are judging everyone by the same standards these are the facts.
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If you genuinely believe that, I don't see many bothering to debate with you again. That's crazy.
 
wolvored said:
He's part of it. He's spent well over 200 odd million and won feck all. Funnily enough didn't we buy Martial?
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Martial isnt first choice imo and he definitely wont be next year.
Its almost 200m from scratch by the way. Its not like 200m on top of a quality side. Its replacing Lukaku, Sanchez, Smalling, Young, Valencia, Mata, Fellaini, Herrera who were all starters for us.
Its why our attack and midfield is the same Jose had (on the bench) plus Bruno.
 
Foxbatt said:
what do you mean? Most of our fans would give up all the cups to win the PL or the CL. We even refused as a club to play in the FA Cup to play in the FIFA Club Championships.
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They'd give it up in hindsight. Not in reality. The outrage if we went out early in those competitions, especially if we just missed out on Prem or CL despite giving it all to those.
 
Foxbatt said:
Leicester. They even won the PL and now after getting rid of Ranieri and appointing Rodgers are constantly punching above their weight. And by the way we were 6th when Jose was sacked on the 15th of December. Nothing to say that he would not have got us into the CL spots by the end of the season. Or even to 2nd place too.
Yes he was toxic and needed to go. But if we are judging everyone by the same standards these are the facts.
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A freak Leicester title win proves absolutely nothing. They aren't challenging for the PL/CL now are they? Rodgers got knocked out of the Europa by Slavia Prague a few weeks ago, where was his amazing coaching then?
 
Leftback99 said:
A freak Leicester title win proves absolutely nothing. They aren't challenging for the PL/CL now are they? Rodgers got knocked out of the Europa by Slavia Prague a few weeks ago, where was his amazing coaching then?
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Limited resources, they could easily finish second this season which would be impressive. I think they beat Prague without the injuries also. They have has so many injuries this season, its impressive how well they have done with not a huge squad
 
There’s no question that we are poorly coached, there’s also no question that our manager is not good enough (his indecisiveness is really annoying). There’s also no question that we have too many mediocre players or should be at best, squad players.
What worries me is the statement by Solskjaer about winning cups. It looks as though he is informing us that we shouldn’t be disappointed when we lose in the FA cup and Europa League and that the only important consideration
is top 4. This, for me, means that Woodward and the owners are satisfied for this level as our future ambition.
 
Cassidy said:
Limited resources, they could easily finish second this season which would be impressive. I think they beat Prague with the injuries also
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I think we win the league without injuries too. Easy to say aint it
 
Judas said:
If you genuinely believe that, I don't see many bothering to debate with you again. That's crazy.
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Show me why? The previous season he got us 2nd. No reason why he could not. The reason he got sacked was different and rightly so he was sacked for being toxic. A man who was won the PL many times and the CL twice can also get to the 2nd spot of the PL for sure from the 6th position in December. I am rightly showing you that the bar is being changed for Ole. If anyone else was the current manager it would be different.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
I think we win the league without injuries too. Easy to say aint it
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Didnt say they would win the league. We have a deeper squad than them too and a larger budget. They have had an impressive season given their injuries
 
Leftback99 said:
A freak Leicester title win proves absolutely nothing. They aren't challenging for the PL/CL now are they? Rodgers got knocked out of the Europa by Slavia Prague a few weeks ago, where was his amazing coaching then?
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A freak Liverpool and Chelsea struggling. Freak injuries to Liverpool. Leicester is challenging us to the 2nd spot for sure. That Rogers just knocked us out of the FA Cup.
 
Cassidy said:
Didnt say they would win the league. We have a deeper squad than them too and a larger budget. They have had an impressive season given their injuries
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No but excusing results for other managers due to injury is a bit rich
 
Foxbatt said:
A freak Liverpool and Chelsea struggling. Freak injuries to Liverpool. Leicester is challenging us to the 2nd spot for sure. That Rogers just knocked us out of the FA Cup.
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Would you swap for Rogers? The bluffer who lost out on top four the last game of last season and just got dumped out of the Europa league by salvia Prague. Try to answer without bringing money spent into it
 
wolvored said:
Yes you did say that. See above.
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It was a generalisation. I'm not saying we are challenging City I'm asking for examples of teams who have gone from typically being 5th to challenging for PL/CLs as the poster said.
 
Foxbatt said:
Show me why? The previous season he got us 2nd. No reason why he could not. The reason he got sacked was different and rightly so he was sacked for being toxic. A man who was won the PL many times and the CL twice can also get to the 2nd spot of the PL for sure from the 6th position in December. I am rightly showing you that the bar is being changed for Ole. If anyone else was the current manager it would be different.
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I think Ole is a poor long term choice as well but in the spirit of fairness I'll give you a concrete reason this isn't true. It's not mathematically possible.

Jose left with our team averaging 1.5 points a game and with the dressing room in disarray. Even if he could magically get everyone on side again, he would have needed to make a jump to over 2.2 points a game to finish in the top four and which was his peak with us the season before (I think he'd actually need to be slightly higher than this) and he wouldn't have caught Pool in 2nd if he won every game.
 
Foxbatt said:
A freak Liverpool and Chelsea struggling. Freak injuries to Liverpool. Leicester is challenging us to the 2nd spot for sure. That Rogers just knocked us out of the FA Cup.
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You are seriously comparing Liverpool having a couple of injuries to a 5000-1 title win?

I'll remind you when we have injuries (as we have done recently) the difference you say it makes.
 
cyberman said:
LVG didnt even finish second
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I have to point out that neither has Solskjaer, yet. We might balls up the last few games the same way we did in 2014/15 (one win, two draws, three defeats in the last six games). So far the only post-SAF manager who actually finished second is José Mourinho - and that one turned out to be the falsest of false dawns, not unexpectedly, considering the quality of the performances throughout that 2017/18 season. The parallels, sadly, are there.
 
Cassidy said:
Rich why? Im simply stating the facts and not even comparing him to anyone
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Maybe I read your post where you said you thought they would have beat Slavia without Injuries wrongly (you actually wrote beat them with injuries but that makes no sense because they didn’t beat them they got knocked out so I assumed it was a typo by you)

following that if you thought they’d beat them without injuries, I think we’d win the league without injuries. Easy to say. That’s where I was coming from
 
So let me get this straight, the solution for our very poor general play in almost every game is to spend ton of millions on expensive world class players? Strange to say that about the manager people seem to say he's building for long term, that the only way to improve our style of play and tactics on the pitch is by just spending more and more money.
 
el3mel said:
So let me get this straight, the solution for our very poor general play in almost every game is to spend ton of millions on expensive world class players? Strange to say that about the manager people seem to say he's building for long term, that the only way to improve our style of play and tactics on the pitch is by just spending more and more money.
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Chequebook manager. At least Pep brings something obvious to the table when he's given that label.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Maybe I read your post where you said you thought they would have beat Slavia without Injuries wrongly (you actually wrote beat them with injuries but that makes no sense because they didn’t beat them they got knocked out so I assumed it was a typo by you)

following that if you thought they’d beat them without injuries, I think we’d win the league without injuries. Easy to say. That’s where I was coming from
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Its not easy to say because without injuries we are not better than City. They are a better team than Slavia without injuries. Add to that, winning a one of game and a league are totally different
 
pocco said:
A couple of injuries? They've been playing CMs at CB all season.
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With actual centre backs on the bench. The coaching is the same though so the the quality of player shouldn't matter right? Or is that just for us?
 
Ledom said:
Entertainment? I
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Ledom said:
Entertainment? If you're not enjoying watching because we don't play Peps well oiled version of the game then I get it, but that isn't what most people are debating here. Most seemingly believe that football should only be played like a robust oil engine or a computer program which during training installs considered variables and then we watch managers may programmers come together and see which version was better.

If I want to watch a computer simulator run with a project lead, personally I would watch something else, an esport perhaps like DOTA that does exactly what is being asked for. To me, I watch football because of the human element and complexity added via memorable players who make things happen even. Ferguson's United struggled for a time with teams that sat back, when we learned to break those down (whilst not micro managing every decision), our team looked amazing. I'm happy to watch new players work out how to do the same as that in my opinion will lead to long term success. It's those same lessons that were never passed from Ferguson's last team to our current players and in my opinion, is where much of the United way, is really evident.
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Yes if we were being entertained most of the time I could agree with you. The fact most of the time it's slow, tedious, no action on goal doesn't make it entertaining for me. I watch it as optimistically I hope that one day it will click and occasionally it does, but not enough.
 
there are a lot things that make me question the current coaching. the poor defending on set pieces, the positioning of our forwards. I think it was the West Ham game where I saw Dan James and Mason Greenwood right on top of each other for the majority of the second half. Is that by design, are these kids just clueless and it has not been drilled into them enough. Why do we never have anyone on the end of crosses, why do we rarely have anyone taking up a central position in the attack.
 
A lot will disagree but I still believe Ole is too much of nice guy for this job.

People will argue "well how do you know this"?.....You just need to look at how he carries himself. How he deals with other managers, how he conducts his pre/post match interviews etc. Its always an attempt to be the nice guy. The fake laughs. The constant friendly comments etc.

I've seen him on the touchline so overly friendly with other managers during games and 90% of the time getting a lot less friendly reaction back. Its because they know, they are in a business where the only thing that matters is winning, not your opponent liking you.

I don't believe he is like that in public then a Alex Ferguson type with the players. His character will be consist. The players will pick on this and know if they don't give that extra 20% its no big deal, what's the worst that can happen? Ole will give them a friendly chat?

This works with some players i.e Shaw, but as a whole for the general progress of the team he needs to be tougher.

Lets stop pretending he's something he isn't. This whole mentality is part of the reason we haven't won much since Ferguson left.
 
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