We are an awfully coached team

UnitedSofa said:
We are hardly in a deep crisis. Yes we are in a bad place right now, yes it's rather depressing watch the team play, yes the football can be dire at times.

But we aren't in free fall at the moment by any means. If this pattern continues, then west I agree we're in a crisis, but we aren't currently in a crisis. It can be a snowball effect and the weekend's result was knocking the snowball off the hill, it's now a moment of when we can get that snowball to melt, or it will continue to grow into an avalanche. Bit of a convoluted metaphor, but you catch my drift.
Click to expand...

Ole and his coaches are in deep crisis. They're a couple of bad results away from all being sacked.

And not only is the manager being rightly lambasted by fans and pundits and journos but, unusually, now all the coaching staff are as well. Which is not something you often see when a manager is getting hounded out. Certainly not something we saw with LVG or Mourinho, or even Moyes to this extent.

McKenna and Carrick and whoever else is there should rightly be scared of not only getting sacked, but also of being viewed around Europe as not good enough to coach anywhere at the top level.
 
Last edited:
UnitedSofa said:
Too right as well!

The term "PR Machine" is thrown around way too much by the modern day fan. Any piece of news that doesn't follow their pre-conceived narrative and the journo is automatically branded as a "PR Machine" or on "their pay roll", it's boring, untrue and down right lazy by fans these days.

A lot of fans have their own minds made up, as it has been shown by you calling him as part of their "PR Machine" and won't listen to anything else.

I'd have blocked you as well!
Click to expand...

I mean it's common knowledge reporters report and get favors depending on what they say and how they say it, so no, a PR machine is real. Why do you think all these leaks are happening right after he's finally under some deserved pressure?
 
Seven Seas Sardines said:
The amount of ridiculous PR exercises making the rounds is laughable. :lol:




Next up: "Sources at Old Trafford say Carricky has taught players everything he knows about football in a text and is flabbergasted they're not playing like prime Barcelona"
Click to expand...

Now we know the problem. Sacrificing family and health for work is stupid and normally isnt sustainable. And weirdly such things usually come out from people not cut out for a job. If theyre doing good or extremely good, its not a sacrifice theyre making, just trading less time with their family for a better career. I dont see why they should feel like theyre sacrificing something. Time at the training ground is plenty enough for them to do something.
 
UnitedSofa said:
Too right as well!

The term "PR Machine" is thrown around way too much by the modern day fan. Any piece of news that doesn't follow their pre-conceived narrative and the journo is automatically branded as a "PR Machine" or on "their pay roll", it's boring, untrue and down right lazy by fans these days.

A lot of fans have their own minds made up, as it has been shown by you calling him as part of their "PR Machine" and won't listen to anything else.

I'd have blocked you as well!
Click to expand...

Mitten is obviously in tit for tat relationships with people on the coaching staff, and presumably a player or two. The tat being that he'll put things out in press that they want put out, and that in his stories he will paint them in a favourable light. That's just how journalism works at the most basic level, and something every single journalist does.

Mitten must be a real snowflake to block someone for just pointing it out. Clearly suffering from cognitive dissonance about it.
 
hobbers said:
Mitten is obviously in tit for tat relationships with people on the coaching staff, and presumably a player or two. The tat being that he'll put things out in press that they want put out, and that in his stories he will paint them in a favourable light. That's just how journalism works at the most basic level, and something every single journalist does.

Mitten must be a real snowflake to block someone for just pointing it out. Clearly suffering from cognitive dissonance about it.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. It's quite funny when these kinds of things are put out. I wonder how much he is getting paid to put these out. These are PR stuff no matter what anyone says.
It's quite ridiculously worded too.
 
Foxbatt said:
Absolutely. It's quite funny when these kinds of things are put out. I wonder how much he is getting paid to put these out. These are PR stuff no matter what anyone says.
It's quite ridiculously worded too.
Click to expand...
It is a twitter post. The currency is attention. If stuff is right or false doesn't really matter. Who knows, maybe what he heard from the staff is true, but, as many have already said, it doesn't really matter as long as the result is so underpar for so long. The journalist are in for attention. They couldn't care less what you think of them as long as they get the attention.

DreadnoughtRS88 said:
I suggest you avoid getting personal with me. Based on what I have read from you, there is nothing to indicate you can recognise a winner even if they paraded in your kitchen, let alone by reading posts from anonymous people in a forum.

Again, go back and read your arguments. One of them is that we should keep Ole in the job because people who work at least 40 hours a week have not yet started evaluating possible replacements. All your arguments are based on the idea that we have a bunch of useless pencil-pushers in the background, who have yet to look into available options, both now and in the summer, their demands, their contracts, etc.

The fact is, nothing is going to change in the summer in terms of availability of suitable managers (Tuchel, Klopp, Guardiola, Rogers, Pochettino... are all tied down and wouldn't coach us anyway. Rogers and Pochettino would consider us, but do we really want them?). So, we are left with Conte, Zidane, and Ten Haag as an exotic choice... two of whom are available now. So, what is the point of waiting and seeing another season flushed down the toilet and waiting for Ronaldo to be a year older?

Saying that Conte is in the mix because he is first and foremost available shows a real lack, a tragic lack of football knowledge. Conte is a top-level manager who's been successful at every job he held. He won the league with Ashley Young and Victor Moses at wing backs. His Italy was amazing to watch and he won the league with Chelsea playing some great football. Granted, he can be defensive, but at least there is a philosophy, a plan behind it and he is clearly a winner (haven't noticed that, have you?) He is volatile, but perhaps this club needs to stop being so nice and impotent - it's led us nowhere and that is definitely not our way.

There are rumours we will switch to a 3-4-1-2 against Atalanta and Liverpool. So, why not bring Conte in who's a specialist in that system rather than allowing Ole, who's only seen it on PES. to play it?
Click to expand...
I can only invite you to read my whole posts and not only the parts you can then go on a crusade against. I stated more than once - if there is a plan, fine, go execute it. If there isn't a plan, now is the time to create it. I don't know much about the abilities of the guys, I heard a few stories about Ed - I guess you too, did they fill you with confidence? I don't know their abilities or mentalities. But my feeling is, there isn't a contingency plan. And if there isn't - a plan should be done asap, an actual overtime request.

If you like Conte, fine, do it. I am not against him, haven't disregarded him. Again, read my posts and stop projecting your perception of the "typical Ole In guy" on me. Because I am not that person. I think, Conte could work and if he is the candidate who comes out on top after a thourough due dilligence, then be my guest. If he isn't, I don't see the point of bringing him in when we could just as well identify the best candidate and try to bring him in. I think, you are acting under the premise, that just bringing in another manager will lift us big time. It might, but maybe not as much as you think. What if the season still ends a tad disappointing? Again - I don't see the urgency right now. We are not seeing stuff on the pitch that is worse than what we have seen earlier. The results currently are an issue but I guess, this is something that can be brought under control. Use the time smartly to create a good plan for the next 2 to 4 years. Then execute it. All transformational periods cost energy, lets be smart. Act efficient.

If you think, there is a plan, fine. If there is, I hope it is good and I am looking forward to see it being executed.
 
Last edited:
hobbers said:
Mitten is obviously in tit for tat relationships with people on the coaching staff, and presumably a player or two. The tat being that he'll put things out in press that they want put out, and that in his stories he will paint them in a favourable light. That's just how journalism works at the most basic level, and something every single journalist does.

Mitten must be a real snowflake to block someone for just pointing it out. Clearly suffering from cognitive dissonance about it.
Click to expand...

This. I've never seen a well-respected football journalist know so little about the actual game than him. Refuses to criticize or even come up with a decent argument. All he says is "it's not good enough", he is truly unbearable in the Athletic podcast, sadly, going on about some stadium he visited in 1985. I've never understood how anyone can like him so much or trust him so much. He's extremely tame in general. Oscar Wilde once said:
"Every effect that one produces gives one an enemy, to be popular one must be a mediocrity. " And I feel that's really fitting for him. Friends with everybody and never says anything that someone can hold against him. Maybe I would've done the same in his position, but it's incredibly boring and he just seems like that type of person who is blocking folks who disagree with his colorless statements.
 
I reckon Ole's tactical issue is clear, he wants to play in the mold of Sir Alex but with 4 strikers/attackers, which in an ideal world would be Greenwood, Rashford, Bruno and Ronaldo.

The problem is, when you look at Sir Alex's teams post the 4 4 2 era, we pretty much played either 4 3 3 or 4 2 3 1 (same as Ole) but with 3 attackers . In the 4 3 3 our succes came by having ronaldo, tevez and rooney taking the top attacking positions and then supplementing that with a functioning midfield e.g. carrick, scholes, fletcher for example. In the 4 2 3 1 used post ronaldo, you would have rooney in the 10/9 position, berbatov/van persie and Nani on the left being the main "attackers" with valencia, despite being a winger, clearly being very good defensively and looking to assist, or fletcher in place of him, and vice versa with park. The key point being 3 heavy attackers in either formation.

If Ole wants to play 4 2 3 1 with bruno (who is pretty much a 10/9 hybrid) the reality is he needs a more defensive minded winger. If he wants to play 4 3 3 , the reality is in a 3 pogba is the better cm (bruno the better 10) when supplemented with a b2b (mct) and holding/dm (matic/fred).

I do think pogba and bruno can play together in a 4 2 3 1, but you would need a defensive minded winger who can provide that extra defensive assurance, ideally on pogbas side. Which still goes back to having 3 attackers. Personally id switch to a 4 3 3 to control the midfield and let bruno and pogba fight it out to the death for the lcm position alongside mct and fred, and no I don't believe Ole has the tactical nous to play with 2 8s like a pep. To play with so many attackers you need to be extremely on point tactically which I don't think is in Ole's toolbox as a coach.
 
Mickson said:
This. I've never seen a well-respected football journalist know so little about the actual game than him. Refuses to criticize or even come up with a decent argument. All he says is "it's not good enough", he is truly unbearable in the Athletic podcast, sadly, going on about some stadium he visited in 1985. I've never understood how anyone can like him so much or trust him so much. He's extremely tame in general. Oscar Wilde once said:
"Every effect that one produces gives one an enemy, to be popular one must be a mediocrity. " And I feel that's really fitting for him. Friends with everybody and never says anything that someone can hold against him. Maybe I would've done the same in his position, but it's incredibly boring and he just seems like that type of person who is blocking folks who disagree with his colorless statements.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with that. Mitten obviously has his sources within the club but in terms of analysis/critique he's pretty mediocre. He essentially just serves as the club mouthpiece.

Saying that, I find the Athletic's coverage of United in general to be quite lacking. Lack of actual analysis and more reliance on club sources and the "feeling" around the club.
 
Seven Seas Sardines said:
I said Mitten is part of their PR machine and this is what happened:
onhasg.jpg
Click to expand...

Yeah I went in on that MUTV puppet Gardner for a similar thing and got exactly the same treatment
 
Seven Seas Sardines said:
The amount of ridiculous PR exercises making the rounds is laughable. :lol:




Next up: "Sources at Old Trafford say Carricky has taught players everything he knows about football in a text and is flabbergasted they're not playing like prime Barcelona"
Click to expand...

We aren't doubting their commitment, just their quality.
 
flameinthesun said:
The problem is, when you look at Sir Alex's teams post the 4 4 2 era, we pretty much played either 4 3 3 or 4 2 3 1 (same as Ole) but with 3 attackers . In the 4 3 3 our succes came by having ronaldo, tevez and rooney taking the top attacking positions and then supplementing that with a functioning midfield e.g. carrick, scholes, fletcher for example. In the 4 2 3 1 used post ronaldo, you would have rooney in the 10/9 position, berbatov/van persie and Nani on the left being the main "attackers" with valencia, despite being a winger, clearly being very good defensively and looking to assist, or fletcher in place of him, and vice versa with park. The key point being 3 heavy attackers in either formation.
Click to expand...

Rooney and tevez worked like dogs and carrick, scholes, fletcher are miles better than mcfred with pogba, plus we also had park. So in comparison we have a weaker central midfield and forwards who don't work as hard (except for cavani, but he's old so he can't do it every game).
 
The new players coming into the team has caused a dip…

But it doesn’t surprise me (for example) that Mane/Bobby/Salah have a better understanding than Sancho/Ronnie/Greenwood.

One trio has played together a thousand times, the other has played together less than 5 games.

Just calm down and stop letting the media rile you up!
 
RuudTom83 said:
The new players coming into the team has caused a dip…

But it doesn’t surprise me (for example) that Mane/Bobby/Salah have a better understanding than Sancho/Ronnie/Greenwood.

One trio has played together a thousand times, the other has played together less than 5 games.

Just calm down and stop letting the media rile you up!
Click to expand...

Yeah that front three has talent no doubt but won't see it until better management and coaching comes in, also can you not refer to Firmino as Bobby because it's proper cringe unless you are a fan of the scousers and reminds me of Tyler
 
Seven Seas Sardines said:
The amount of ridiculous PR exercises making the rounds is laughable. :lol:




Next up: "Sources at Old Trafford say Carricky has taught players everything he knows about football in a text and is flabbergasted they're not playing like prime Barcelona"
Click to expand...


So this implies then that our coaches are working harder than the coaches at City, Chelsea etc. Really?
 
Cloud7 said:
So this implies then that our coaches are working harder than the coaches at City, Chelsea etc. Really?
Click to expand...

The fact stuff is coming out about a top club's coaching in the press just proves there is serious problems
 
croadyman said:
The fact stuff is coming out about a top club's coaching in the press just proves there is serious problems
Click to expand...

Yeah I've never actually read anything about coaches at any other club before really. United's attempted PR these days is embarrassing.
 
Cloud7 said:
Yeah I've never actually read anything about coaches at any other club before really. United's attempted PR these days is embarrassing.
Click to expand...

Yeah and you have Mitten blocking people on twitter just for saying he's part of it makes him look a snowflake
 
croadyman said:
Think Ashton is still at the club but surely he realises people can see through this stuff
Click to expand...

You would think so but I can see a fair few people even on here will eat this right up. All you need to say is they're United men and they work hard and that's enough for some :lol:
 
Cloud7 said:
You would think so but I can see a fair few people even on here will eat this right up. All you need to say is they're United men and they work hard and that's enough for some :lol:
Click to expand...

Yeah and that's the most scary part about it
 
NZT-One said:
I can only invite you to read my whole posts and not only the parts you can then go on a crusade against. I stated more than once - if there is a plan, fine, go execute it. If there isn't a plan, now is the time to create it. I don't know much about the abilities of the guys, I heard a few stories about Ed - I guess you too, did they fill you with confidence? I don't know their abilities or mentalities. But my feeling is, there isn't a contingency plan. And if there isn't - a plan should be done asap, an actual overtime request.

If you like Conte, fine, do it. I am not against him, haven't disregarded him. Again, read my posts and stop projecting your perception of the "typical Ole In guy" on me. Because I am not that person. I think, Conte could work and if he is the candidate who comes out on top after a thourough due dilligence, then be my guest. If he isn't, I don't see the point of bringing him in when we could just as well identify the best candidate and try to bring him in. I think, you are acting under the premise, that just bringing in another manager will lift us big time. It might, but maybe not as much as you think. What if the season still ends a tad disappointing? Again - I don't see the urgency right now. We are not seeing stuff on the pitch that is worse than what we have seen earlier. The results currently are an issue but I guess, this is something that can be brought under control. Use the time smartly to create a good plan for the next 2 to 4 years. Then execute it. All transformational periods cost energy, lets be smart. Act efficient.

If you think, there is a plan, fine. If there is, I hope it is good and I am looking forward to see it being executed.
Click to expand...

I do not think you are a typical, naïve Ole-In guy, not at all. What I take issue with is that it seems like you think I am a typical Ole-Out guy, in the sense that I just want him out, chuck anyone else in without too much thinking, and we move on.

I totally agree there has to be a due diligence and a multi-layered plan behind any appointment. I respect that you insist on this, as it will prevent us from making the same mistake by picking flavour-of-the-month-type manager just for the sake of it, just for appeasing the fans.

So, in essence, I want us to change the manager as it is what's best for Manchester United and I think a Conte or a Ten Haag would be a great appointment, if theirs and the club's strategies align. You want us to change the manager provided there is a plan behind it. So, all in all, it seems we are, actually, in agreement.
 
Last edited:
hobbers said:
Ole and his coaches are in deep crisis. They're a couple of bad results away from all being sacked.
Click to expand...

I doubt it very much. Does anyone think that after handing them all shiny new contracts in the last month or so, that after a few bad results the Glazers are going to be working behind the scenes to find a new manager and coaching team?

I don't.

This is what happens when your club is run by people who think they know about football.
 
Just look at us. Almost every team we play now easily outplay us in midfield. Every team we play control the ball and pass so comfortably.

Forget the result. Our organization on the pitch is just bad.
 
el3mel said:
Just look at us. Almost every team we play now easily outplay us in midfield. Every team we play control the ball and pass so comfortably.

Forget the result. Our organization on the pitch is just bad.
Click to expand...


I genuinely cannot remember the last time it looked like our team had control of a game
 
This is so depressing. We have a great side. We should be loving life right now
 
The set pieces sum it up for me. We must concede from one every other game.
 
Could you imagine if we were not lucky against Villarreal? We would be on 0 pts at the moment. We look like a team that is lacking an understanding towards what to do.
 
Ole inners need to apologize to everyone for their god awful and pompous behaviour in the past few months
 
Eplel said:
Ole inners need to apologize to everyone for their god awful and pompous behaviour in the past few months
Click to expand...
They wont, probably still being obnoxious in their obnoxious threads.
 
hobbers said:
Mitten is obviously in tit for tat relationships with people on the coaching staff, and presumably a player or two. The tat being that he'll put things out in press that they want put out, and that in his stories he will paint them in a favourable light. That's just how journalism works at the most basic level, and something every single journalist does.

Mitten must be a real snowflake to block someone for just pointing it out. Clearly suffering from cognitive dissonance about it.
Click to expand...

I can’t listen to The Athletic’s United podcast with him and Carl Anka on it. Mitten just name dropping and defending Woodward/OGS and Anka with his contrived football insights. Dismal stuff.
 
Eplel said:
Ole inners need to apologize to everyone for their god awful and pompous behaviour in the past few months
Click to expand...

It was the fact that they argued we played good football. We're a group of individuals reliant on moments. Theres never been a style or any sort of cohesion. But Ole inners were adamant of this. Ole has been an absolute disaster and an utter waste of three years. Literally anyone could have achieved what he has.
 
Mike Bassett's levels of coaching....

This is embarrassing level of stuff, I've never seen a club this fecking stupid in my life

Pull the trigger on this man, he's not good enough
 
I wish we had a head coach like Gasperini...

Seven Seas Sardines said:
utdreport
@utdreport
The mood in #mufc training is not divided like it was during Mourinho, Van Gaal and Moyes' time. Coaches are "working their backsides off" to the detriment of their private lives, their family and even their health to get back United back #mulive [@AndyMitten, talk of the devils]
Click to expand...
If the shower of shit they've served up so far is the best they could do then they should feck off already
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.