Same here. I can't wait to watch the game. Then again most likely i will want to poke my eyes out as soon as i see Valencia and Young in the starting line-up.
West Bromwich Albion vs. Manchester United
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Same here. I can't wait to watch the game. Then again most likely i will want to poke my eyes out as soon as i see Valencia and Young in the starting line-up.
Hoping for Evans to return. With Kagawa, Mata, Januzaj behind Rooney - However, don't think Kagawa will start considering he has traveled so Van Persie or Welbeck up top depending on Van Persie's fitness. Fingers crossed Fellaini gets another start and maybe Nani on the bench
With the no RVP rumors I expect to see:
DDG
Smalling Rio Vidic Evra
Carrick Fellaini
Mata Rooney Januzaj
Welbeck
I don't think Valencia/Young will start as they are being saved for CL
DDG
Smalling Rio Vidic Evra
Carrick Fellaini
Mata Rooney Januzaj
Welbeck
I don't think Valencia/Young will start as they are being saved for CL
I need this game badly now. Im on the verge of manifesting physical withdrawal symptoms. Its weird, the worse our football is, the more desperately I need my fix because I end up obsessing about it between games and live in the deluded hope that the next game might be the one that sets us back on the right path.
Pls if RVP is injured just play Mata in the #10 ffs.
That would be too obvious...
Please dear lord let's promiss ourselves that this game onward till the end of the season we'll kick some real arse... we will fight in each and every game till the refree blows his whistle.
Amen
Amen
Would like to see Kagawa start - he played really well when he came on against Olympiakos - and so by normal football logic, deserves a chance in the side.
One of the papers this morning was reporting that he will be out for another 3 weeks
13-14 logic means he won't even be in the travelling squad.
Remember that Moyes is under huge pressure now. That pressure is not just coming from the press, but from the fans. I read this week that the number of fans who thought Moyes should be sacked has gone from 22% at the end of January to 56% at the end of Feb. (fwiw the story was from the Telegraph and cites a poll by UWS, though I don't read that 'zine myself so am going on the Telegraph's story). That's a critical shift, and I can say I've seen that kind of shift replicated amongst my red mates (mostly match going mancs) and on this site.
Moyes will know that his job is on the line. He won't go before summer whatever happens, but a dismal performance between now and the end of the season could cost him his job next year.
Moyes has shown himself to be risk averse in his career at Everton and so far at United. I see absolutely no reason to believe he'll go for 4-2-3-1, or bring in Kagawa, or even Wellbeck. If RvP is indeed out of the game, my guess is the following
Two wingers to help cover attacks down the wings, and just hope Mata can play in Rooney on the counter.
The trouble for Moyes is that if he continues with a risk averse policy it kind of fails to understand something about United, which is that if you're gonna lose, go out with a bang. If he thinks that an unbeaten run of dour 1-nil and nil-nils between now and the end of the season will get fans on his side, he'd be wrong.
What I hope of course is that he thinks "Fek it" and just goes all out attack from now on til the end of the season, scoring and conceding a tonne in the process. But I've been kind of hoping that since the beginning of January and its not happened yet, so no reason to think it'll happen now.
Moyes will know that his job is on the line. He won't go before summer whatever happens, but a dismal performance between now and the end of the season could cost him his job next year.
Moyes has shown himself to be risk averse in his career at Everton and so far at United. I see absolutely no reason to believe he'll go for 4-2-3-1, or bring in Kagawa, or even Wellbeck. If RvP is indeed out of the game, my guess is the following
Smalling---Vidic--Jones---Evra
Valencia---Carrick---Fellaini---Young
Mata
Rooney
Valencia---Carrick---Fellaini---Young
Mata
Rooney
Two wingers to help cover attacks down the wings, and just hope Mata can play in Rooney on the counter.
The trouble for Moyes is that if he continues with a risk averse policy it kind of fails to understand something about United, which is that if you're gonna lose, go out with a bang. If he thinks that an unbeaten run of dour 1-nil and nil-nils between now and the end of the season will get fans on his side, he'd be wrong.
What I hope of course is that he thinks "Fek it" and just goes all out attack from now on til the end of the season, scoring and conceding a tonne in the process. But I've been kind of hoping that since the beginning of January and its not happened yet, so no reason to think it'll happen now.
I am starting to lose a bit of patience with Moyes myself and I am all for hoping things workout with him in the long run.
We have feck all to play for this season now (bar turning things around in the CL which I actually think we will do) so why not experiment and scrap playing two badly out of form and distinctly average wingers in Valencia and Young?
Kagawa should really get some game time. Why not try and find a system that works with our best front players?
We have feck all to play for this season now (bar turning things around in the CL which I actually think we will do) so why not experiment and scrap playing two badly out of form and distinctly average wingers in Valencia and Young?
Kagawa should really get some game time. Why not try and find a system that works with our best front players?
Our best front players are Mata, Januszaj, RVP and Rooney. So a finding a system that suits them includes no room for Kagawa.
So you don't see there being a system that could accommodate all of them?
No. I don't see any way we can afford to carry Kagawa while being as attacking as we would be with Mata, Januszaj, RVP and Rooney.
If we found a system that suited the four you mention, Kagawa would slot into it. At the moment we havent got a system that suits anybody, as evidenced by the fact we look so laboured when attacking.
You think?
So far in his United career he's looked vastly inferior to all four of those players and done very little to get himself picked ahead of the likes of Nani and Welbeck or even the whipping boys du jour, Young and Valencia.
Na. Nearly.
Good luck with that. On this forum the less he plays the better he gets.
I do. I agree with you about a lot of things but on this one I confess I am a Kagawa muppet. I think Kagawa's problems are to do with the way we play. People say why should we change the way we play to suit Kagawa? I would agree with that if the way we were playing was delivering anything worthwhile without him, but its not. So why not change? The way Chelsea played with Hazard, Mata and Oscar, I dont see why we cant do that with any 3 of Mata, Rooney, Januzaj, Kagawa and Nani. Playing a bit closer together, passing it about between them, teasing, probing, all of that Freudian sounding stuff.
Despite him scoring more goals last season than Welbeck, Young, Valencia and Cleverley put together?
I don't think the issue is with picking the front four, it's that RVP and Rooney don't work well together in the structure that Moyes has set. Yes you may get an individual bit of brilliance from either one, but they have almost no interplay between them and the play in the final third is so disjointed as a result. Either Moyes has to change the structure, or sub one of them, and I don't think he has the brain for the former or the balls for the latter.
I don't think that's the case. We may not find a system that suits all five at once, but you do need to have a system that other players can slot in and out of. A 4-2-3-1 would not suit just those four as it did at Palace, but would easily accommodate Kagawa and Wellbeck as well. Nani and Young, maybe would also suit it. Valencia certainly wouldn't, but I really don't think his performances this season justify building the team around him.
I can empathise with you on this, I really can. Every time Kagawa has started, this season and last, I keep thinking "this is the one". The game where he shows us all why Fergie signed him. He's even teased us (more Freud) with glimpses of real quality. You have to take a step back, though, and ask yourself has he proved anything at United so far. To me, the answer is no. He's flattered to deceive and it bothers me that people constantly find ways to blame everyone but Kagawa for this inescapable fact,
I still think he might turn the corner and it's frustrating that this woeful bloody season is not a good time for him to make a case for himself. I'm still clinging to the words of Steve Round, though, and I hope that he's part of our long-term plans and will eventually force his way into our best XI.
Yes.
Last season he definitely had a case for being picked ahead of Welbeck, Young and Valencia (although the hat-trick in one game gives a distorted view of his overall contribution). The three of them have all become more productive this season. Kagawa has done the opposite.
I never mentioned Cleverley.
If you can keep the faith with Moyes for what he did at Everton, why not keep the faith with Kagawa for what he did at Dortmund?
Admittedly, I am basing all this faith on reputation as I barely saw him at Dortmund. But what I hear, I like. And more importantly, what I see (in glimpses) that corresponds with what I hear, I love.
Take Olympiakos. When he came on we looked a lot better. A couple of lovely little moves with him and Rooney. Glimpses glimpses. Its not a lot, I know it isnt. But the little bits we do see are what I want to see more of.
Has he proved anything at United so far? Not really, no. But that can still be explained by what I said in my last post, not so much that we are playing him on the left, but the fact the whole team is geared up to play this wide crossing game that is nothing to do with his best attributes. Its like hiring a maths professor and then making him sit a Latin exam and writing him off as a thicko because he failed it.
I know I am making excuses for him, just as you empathise with my point, I sympathise with yours. Its a question of faith, I guess. I want Kagawa in my afterlife, dammit. I just want to see what I outlined above (just wanted to add welbeck fits into that setup nicely too - in fact our whole squad is well set up for this, especially if we get another midfielder, but even now with Fellaini and Carrick we are ready to go) and until we see it for a sustained period (more than one game in succession, how about for the rest of the season) I wont accept Kagawa cant thrive in it.
If any of this is irrational then so be it.
Yeah, fair enough. I think I prefer your version of reality anyway.
What's the point? He seems certain to be sold in the summer and Moyes seems to have more faith in others despite their massive limitations. Also, to be fair, Mata, Rooney and Januzaj are rightly ahead of him in the pecking order too.
Kagawa should have done better when he was given opportunities but he is certainly more deserving of a further chance to prove himself than Young, Valencia or even Nani imo. Kagawa at least has the potential to be far better than any of them and, considering we have nothing else to play for, you'd think we'd give him a real chance to prove he deserves to be here next season. Unfortunately Moyes seems to have already made up his mind.
One thing is for sure, its a must win for Moyes if nothing else.
Maybe. I can't see him being fired unless either the fans or the players turn on him. Will one more loss do that?
I think we'll win anyway, probably after picking a pretty good team. The Olympiacos game is more likely to frustrate the hell out of us when it comes to team selection and performance.
Carrick - Fellaini
Januzaj - Mata - Kagawa
Rooney
It was a lovely dream.Januzaj - Mata - Kagawa
Rooney
There are enough straws in the wind to indicate a lack of faith from the players. If only the fans would do their part, and ditch the mindless 'we're the most loyal fans anywhere and we're going to prove it even if it gets us relegated' stuff. A big 'Moyes Out' banner would be a welcome sight.
Don't think we could sink any lower but this would be the last straw for any manager of a big club.
I don't think it'll make a blind bit of difference. If we lost every game from now til the end of the season the same narrative will be coming out of the club.
Well that's not true at all. At least, none of us can predict the future but - never mind losing every game - if January's performances/results continue until the end of this season I would be amazed if Moyes wasn't given the boot. I'm sure even Fergie himself would expect us to improve on where we are now, with or without new signings.
Obviously, the powers that be will make nothing but positive noises. That's what they're supposed to do. After all, isn't the dreaded "vote of confidence" the precursor to most managerial sackings?
Time will tell. I think this season has been completely written off though. He's going to be judged from next season when he's made his mark. I think this season, as disappointing as it is was only ever seen as a learning curve and year to assess his squad before making it his own.
That's not excusing the performances, I'm as furious as anyone and would rather him out but I think that's the position taken by the club and in a way, I think the worse we do the more Fergie will dig his heels in and make sure he gets time whatever.
De Gea
Rafael--Smalling--Jones--Evra
Carrick--Fletcher
Welbeck--Mata--Januzaj
Rooney
Subs: Lindegaard, Vidic, Cleverley, Nani, Young, Kagawa, van Persie
If van Persie's van Persie is 100% fit both in mind and body then start him instead of Welbeck, but van Persie played 90 minutes vs France. If not Welbeck then Kagawa. I wouldn't mind seeing Kagawa but I feel our team lacks pace. Welbeck should provide a bit of that but I would mind Januzaj on the right, Mata behind Rooney and Kagawa on the left.
Rafael--Smalling--Jones--Evra
Carrick--Fletcher
Welbeck--Mata--Januzaj
Rooney
Subs: Lindegaard, Vidic, Cleverley, Nani, Young, Kagawa, van Persie
If van Persie's van Persie is 100% fit both in mind and body then start him instead of Welbeck, but van Persie played 90 minutes vs France. If not Welbeck then Kagawa. I wouldn't mind seeing Kagawa but I feel our team lacks pace. Welbeck should provide a bit of that but I would mind Januzaj on the right, Mata behind Rooney and Kagawa on the left.
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According to the Manchester Evening News, Fellaini suffered a back spasm while on international duty.
Going to be a tough for one for you guys, with West Brom fighting for their lives and being no pushovers as both us and you guys have found so far this season. Going for 2-2 or perhaps a Brom win. (I'd rather you saved your winning for the next game)
every match is tough with Moyes managing us....
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