there’s something to this obviously, but would you want the PM to come from Oxford Brooks or UWE?
calm down… obviously we want our leaders to have the best education possible. That’s a combination of multiple variables.
Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
there’s something to this obviously, but would you want the PM to come from Oxford Brooks or UWE?
calm down… obviously we want our leaders to have the best education possible. That’s a combination of multiple variables.
You're absolutely right and decisions like Brexit, Iraq war etc all make a lot more sense when you realise these decisions are made with the interests of the very few at the top in mind.
There are, what, 150+ universities of different stripes in the UK? Pretty damning indictment of the country's education system if the need for politicians to have a top standard of education means 3/4 of PMs come from the same two universities for over 300 years. As if Oxbridge graduates are bestowed with some expertise beyond the realm of other universities.
In reality it has nothing to do with people with the best education being promoted to the job. Instead it's about people who attended the wealthiest universities (which themselves draw disproportionately from the wealthiest and most privileged section of the Uk's population) being promoted to the job.
Why? Are we expecting our "leaders" to be the best of everything in some Trumpian utopia, or do we accept that they are a figurehead for the experts that sit behind them and advising on the actions to take?
The problems come when the likes of Johnson actually make decisions rather than the people who have spent their entire lives learning about each subject and therefore take reasoned actions.
Maybe if they came from different educational backgrounds we would have ministers that would be more representative of the people?
What good have all these etonian’s done for normal people?
And it’s not like being a politician is a true test of knowledge & education either.
Is Matt Hancock intelligent? These clowns go to the top Universities because of their wealth and connections… not because they have the brightest minds. It’s the same reason they end up in Government.
I’d actually prefer our leaders didn’t necessarily all go to the most exclusive University. Perhaps having a Health Secretary who actually had some experience of that particular field… perhaps a former Doctor? Maybe that would make more sense then some toff idiot who was handed cushy finance jobs in the City because Daddy has friends in high up places.
The system is simply not set up to get good candidates into any of these roles. Many of the most important jobs in the country being done by so many below average individuals.
Genuinely couldn’t care what uni any of our ministers attended. It’d be refreshing to have someone who can relate to real people and not someone who’s mummy/daddy has written them the largest cheques.
100% agree. One one of the biggest issues is diversity. Diversity of experience. Far too few of our politicians actually have any real world experience. Real world business experience.
whilst this will sound controversial, we don’t pay them enough, and so attract a poorer standard of person.
now obviously I wouldn’t get anyone’s vote on here… but for £70k per year, there’s no chance I would want to be an MP. Whilst it’s clearly a lot higher than the average wage, the best strategists/communicators etc will easily be earning 6 figures. Politics is unattractive - so you get the career politicians, which are the massive problem.
whilst he’s obviously not caught the imagination of labour, we need more examples of Kier Starmer.
I do agree with that, ultimately if we paid them more then they’re less susceptible to being bribed by outside sources. At least that’s how I see things but open to being corrected.
Enter Nigel Farage. That was his initial claim to fame, before Brexit. That he was not a career politician and has real world experience. And Boris was a journalist.
And of course, in the US, Donald Trump.
So. You pay your money and take you choice. Frying pan or fire.
They get into those uni's because they go to the right public schools. They go to the right public schools because they go to the right prep schools. They go to the right prep schools because they can afford it, in both fees and housing. I know this because my daughter's go to one of those prep schools.
From the earliest part of prep school they learn how to pass exams, to the point where my eight year old is practicing eleven plus exams.
I did economics at one of those uni's that is good but also really pretty and historic so it had multiple yellow cards for having too many public school students. They know how to "study", but they were rarely the smartest kids.
By only picking our leaders from that small bunch, we are lowering the IQ of our government.
We mock the American system here in the UK, but they had a half Kenyan dude from Hawaii run their country for eight years. When have we had that kind of diversity in our leadership?
From the earliest part of prep school they learn how to pass exams, to the point where my eight year old is practicing eleven plus exams.
I did economics at one of those uni's that is good but also really pretty and historic so it had multiple yellow cards for having too many public school students. They know how to "study", but they were rarely the smartest kids.
By only picking our leaders from that small bunch, we are lowering the IQ of our government.
We mock the American system here in the UK, but they had a half Kenyan dude from Hawaii run their country for eight years. When have we had that kind of diversity in our leadership?
There's nothing wrong with Oxford Brookes or UWE. Nor should the university you went to continue to have a bearing on your achievements as you go through life. Regardless, even if we somehow accept that those who go to Oxbridge as amazing and those who go to UWE are shite, there is of course z medium between the two and we have many prestigious and excellent universities across the country.
I do not consider Johnson, having every advantage in the world from birth, having gone to schools where they tutor them from the very beginning on how to get into Oxbridge, intelligent or having had the best education in leading a country because he can write essays on Ancient Greek/Roman culture.
I can't think of another 'advanced' country where 2 universities have such a stranglehold on political power or where it is so accepted by the population either.
I work with a lot of people who went to Oxbridge and top Russell group universities and don't consider them any different from each other in terms of intelligence. For that matter, I don't consider them any different from those colleagues who went to other unis as well.
Looking at Hunt, Gove, Johnson, Hancock and Raab doesn't scream intelligence or high education to me.
Leaving aside Hancock's abilities, does it really matter that he is keeping in touch with an old friend (with benefits) from his Uni days?
Surely, for example, his alleged involvement in the placing of PPE contracts with his mates, is more important? So why is this story , if true, not receiving much more attention?.
I am not feeling sorry for Matt Hancock, anyone in the public eye like he is who is daft enough to bringing down the press on himself and his family and friends with this kind of 'thinking with his **ck' behaviour, deserves ridicule; but the opprobrium he gets in terms of his performance as a Minister, has to relate to his job.
Surely, for example, his alleged involvement in the placing of PPE contracts with his mates, is more important? So why is this story , if true, not receiving much more attention?.
I am not feeling sorry for Matt Hancock, anyone in the public eye like he is who is daft enough to bringing down the press on himself and his family and friends with this kind of 'thinking with his **ck' behaviour, deserves ridicule; but the opprobrium he gets in terms of his performance as a Minister, has to relate to his job.
Yes, I understand that. But they are actually the only ones I know off...
What about the fact she's in a salaried role? Or that when Prof Ferguson broke the rules last year Hancock said it was right for him to resign. The fact is he should have resigned but Johnson can't lever him out because he's done exactly the same thing.
The criticism he gets from the press is probably not as harsh as he gets from the court of public opinion.
I dislike elitism of any kind. And I dislike even more the attitude of I am above the law/rules just because I am part of the government.
And if Hancock had any sense of decency at all, he would have resigned. Instead of hiding behind his job and behind his boss
As per the ministerial code they agree to, Hancock is expected to ensure that no conflict of interest or perceived conflict of interest arises between his public duties and personal interests. Appointing someone he's secretly having an affair with to a salaried oversight role at the taxpayers' expense falls directly under that category. It's directly comparable to the awarding of contracts to his friends you mention.
Beyond that, it was also a breach of the social restrictions his government were pushing and in that sense directly comparable to the Neil Ferguson situation from last year, in which Hancock said Ferguson was right to resign.
You're right, and I can't help but feel it's a united effort to deflect from the really shit things that have come out from this story. "Man has affair" is easier to handle from a media point of view than "man gives mistress's family millions in taxpayers money".
Fecking state of this:
He’s gone
I wish Priti Patel would do the same.
Good riddance. He’ll probably get a peerage next year.
BREAKING: Hancock turns down Spurs job
Just as I thought. All the corruption, all the people dead. Who cares about that? He kissed somebody so he has to go.
'The NHS is the best gift a nation has ever given itself' What sort of fecking language is that? It wasn't a gift, it was fought for, and won by, the Labour Party.
Guess who opposed it?
Guess who opposed it?
I think the press have more stuff on him so he’s walked rather than being pushed. There’s plenty else that should’ve gotten him (and others) sacked/resigned over the last 15 months.
If it was just an affair he wouldn't have gone. He's the health minister and has publicly broken his own guidance. That's before even getting into the fact the affair is with an underling something that would get you sacked in most jobs. Especially if you hired them as a friend and gave them tax papers money.
I bet plenty of others knew about the affair and could have easily used it as blackmail.
Generally bad conduct will see you sacked way before a lack of competence in politics.
Something obviously changed between yesterday and today. Whether it was just the pressure we don’t know. Glad he’s gone, but it’s a joke that it’s because of this.
It’s not just been lack of competence though. It’s been that coupled with outright corruption. I knew this would be the end of him when it came out.
Taking bets on the next incompetent to get the job.