Raception.
Westminster Politics
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Raception.
So just because they tried to sell you weed we will chuck away studies that only shows improvement?
https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight
Give me weed ropey-looking dealers everyday
I dont think the availability of weed is the most relevant aspect of a drug policy. People not dying, prisons not being full, low rates of drug use are better measures where portugal are ahead of the vast majority of european countries having been one of the worst.
They were selling more than weed. I don't particularly care that they do, although it got boring being accosted by them. It's more that it didn't exactly paint a picture of a country in control of its drug situation when there are dealers on every other street corner. Fine if the numbers stack up, but I've never been approached as often for drugs as I was on that trip anywhere in the world.
Thats what decriminalization brings. Not all policies ate 100% positive in every aspect and to everyone. Certainly things can always be improved, but the numbers are pretty much conclusive.
Your weed story, is that, a story. Is pointless as a counterargument for the success of portugal dealing with drugs and its consequences as it was quoted as counterwight.
If someone says "we should try to do like portugal in that policy", any sensitive person should say "feck yes" . Not quote a touristy experience or you might think that spain is magaluf
It's not pointless, it's a fact and as you yourself said, 'that's what decriminalisation brings'. Whether it's the lesser of two evils is a different question.
If you're going to decriminalise stuff, I'd rather you could buy it through outlets where quality can be monitored, so I'm not buying a bag of marjoram on the street or coke cut with benzocaine etc...
Near Faro on a family holiday, getting the same offer every fifty yards in a marketplace. Starts off with some random asshole offering you a shitty looking gold chain, and when you don't take them up on that offer you get the side eyed whispering "hashish?" Dad got his wallet pinched in the same market and the police accused him of lying about it. Good times.
Criminal records for littering would solve this one. I’d rather everyone was blisteringly high all the time if they also threw trash away respectfully.
Is a fact. An irrelevant fact to the discussion because is a individual tourist fact when you dicuss national policy. Many tourists gets stolen in las ramblas. Guess who is not stolen: "me and any of my friends or family members"
Again. Counterweight a proven record successful policiy that has affected tens of thousands of people in terms of adiction, criminal records/prison time, health improvement like aids, mental health,others, improve social stigma.Afected the entire population of portugal (millions) saving on public money with "but i got offer weed when i was on vacation so hey, there is that maybe we should think about it" is ridiculous.
Any european country would kill for these improvements so a goid starting point would be replicating what portugal did adapted to the country specifics
Then, i will wholeheartly agree that there is room for improvement, but is hardly a reason to counterweight all the good that portugal achieved. "Solving my drug countries problems vs increasing slightly the problems for stupid tourists that takes drugs in a foreign country" no contest.
You were smart and didnt buy it. Cant you wait 2 weeks to smoke weed at home for the sake of the whole population of portugal to not overturn their policies because poor stupid tourists?
I was talking quality control checks for Portuguese folk mainly, not tourists dumb enough to buy off the street.
Well. Locals probably knows best. Would not be worried.
I hear that these fecking idiots are now trying to criminalise the homeless.
We've already hit the bottom and are just digging further.
We've already hit the bottom and are just digging further.
Not my proudest wank but what a speech by Yvette! Every time this woman speaks she impresses me. So refreshing to listen to.
This was also excellent from Rayner at PMQ's today
Most of what's on the internet about Portugal and drugs is not true. The police and the judiciary are not tolerant. If I were into weed, which I'm not, I'd rather take my chances in the UK or Spain. A lot of those statistics reflect them solving a heroin epidemic by instituting social rather than legal transformation.
Of course, why else would the government be looking to reform childcare. Always the same with MP's and government, only if it benefits them
Can't wait to get these charlatans outYvette has always been a great politician imo. One of the very few who can articulate with passion and eviscerate her opponents with ease. Then again, when your opposition is Cruella it ain't exactly hard
Yvette has always been a great politician imo. One of the very few who can articulate with passion and eviscerate her opponents with ease. Then again, when your opposition is Cruella it ain't exactly hard
Just a reminder. People died.
She's very articulate when she speaks and delivers a good speech.
She is very much part of the Labour right though and was critical of the big JC so I don't fully trust her.
But all that aside. That was a very good speech she delivered there so she gets my plaudets for that.
I dont think that the link i posted and any of that i revised singles out weed. And numbers are numbers and drug related incarcerations plummeted. If you are suggesting that they lie giving the numbers, then i cant counterargument as yes im trusting them. But maybe you have some proof of that
And yes, spain is very lenient with weed and in general with drugs. Partially because of the law and partially because the police doesnt care and even, based on friends experiences, they keep the weed/hash and let you go
Also, talking of spain, substance abuse is very cultural. I dont know if it is because the cultural ingrained alcohol abuse transferred to drugs, a lack of planning to tackle the problem or because is the biggest european port of entry of weed/hash through the south and cocaine, north west. But portugal had a problem and they decided to find a solution and it work. Spain we just drag our feet with the problem
@webbthepostie i was in Lisbon a few weeks back and only got approached by someone selling hash once on a 4 day stay.
And actually you are right in the fact this is an issue. They tend to target tourists because locals know of them and that quite often their products are also poor quality.
So while that is an issue. On the positive side:
- I didn't hear about kids being stabbed in the capital or attacked with acid due to turf drug wars.
- There weren't parks laced with needles or used baggies
- There weren't 10s of homeless alcoholics or addicts sleeping rough in the streets begging
- I didn't feel intimidated or as if there was a gang culture. My host actually warned me about some areas where there had been some thefts to avoid at night. So of course there is still crime but it's minimal in contrast to London.
- There weren't young kids being exploited by criminals running up and down train lines with drugs.
- I didn't witness groups or crowds of young people congregating in areas smoking weed like you would in London. I presume those who wanted to do it didn't feel like they needed to hide it from their own families due to the lack of stigma and acceptance.
- I presume the reason I didn't witness alot of the above is due to the decriminalising. Heroin addicts can go to centres and use drugs in safe environment out of sight. Those who maybe take cannabis can grow their own plants in the climate rather than pass their earnings on to criminals which in turn increases the amount of crime.
To be honest the biggest annoyance in terms of anti social behaviour that I witnessed were groups of young British males pissed up acting the fool in public spaces with no care for anyone but themselves.
But you are 100% correct to outline that you may have been approached by some people attempting to sell drugs. And to no surprise at all you weren't interested and didn't buy any. It's as if.... Decriminalising drugs doesn't create an incentive for people to suddenly do them. But for those who do wish to do then it creates a safer environment which gives the drug user more control rather than the drug dealer.
And if someone did want to try a drug and was approached by one of these people in a busy city centre. Well at least that's better than meeting a shady stranger whose details they've found on the Internet in a quiet car park.
Anyway @4bars has already made some good points and all of the above is just opinions from our experiences. More than happy to discuss actual numbers statistics and facts to show how decriminalisation and legalisation is much more successful than a failed 50 year war on drugs which has cost millions.
Can't wait for laughing gas to now be a thing of the last. These new ASBO laws will really work just look at the laws on cannabis, cocaine and heroin and their success. When was the last time you smelt weed, seen a used baggy or a needle in the UK... It's ever so successful.
And actually you are right in the fact this is an issue. They tend to target tourists because locals know of them and that quite often their products are also poor quality.
So while that is an issue. On the positive side:
- I didn't hear about kids being stabbed in the capital or attacked with acid due to turf drug wars.
- There weren't parks laced with needles or used baggies
- There weren't 10s of homeless alcoholics or addicts sleeping rough in the streets begging
- I didn't feel intimidated or as if there was a gang culture. My host actually warned me about some areas where there had been some thefts to avoid at night. So of course there is still crime but it's minimal in contrast to London.
- There weren't young kids being exploited by criminals running up and down train lines with drugs.
- I didn't witness groups or crowds of young people congregating in areas smoking weed like you would in London. I presume those who wanted to do it didn't feel like they needed to hide it from their own families due to the lack of stigma and acceptance.
- I presume the reason I didn't witness alot of the above is due to the decriminalising. Heroin addicts can go to centres and use drugs in safe environment out of sight. Those who maybe take cannabis can grow their own plants in the climate rather than pass their earnings on to criminals which in turn increases the amount of crime.
To be honest the biggest annoyance in terms of anti social behaviour that I witnessed were groups of young British males pissed up acting the fool in public spaces with no care for anyone but themselves.
But you are 100% correct to outline that you may have been approached by some people attempting to sell drugs. And to no surprise at all you weren't interested and didn't buy any. It's as if.... Decriminalising drugs doesn't create an incentive for people to suddenly do them. But for those who do wish to do then it creates a safer environment which gives the drug user more control rather than the drug dealer.
And if someone did want to try a drug and was approached by one of these people in a busy city centre. Well at least that's better than meeting a shady stranger whose details they've found on the Internet in a quiet car park.
Anyway @4bars has already made some good points and all of the above is just opinions from our experiences. More than happy to discuss actual numbers statistics and facts to show how decriminalisation and legalisation is much more successful than a failed 50 year war on drugs which has cost millions.
Can't wait for laughing gas to now be a thing of the last. These new ASBO laws will really work just look at the laws on cannabis, cocaine and heroin and their success. When was the last time you smelt weed, seen a used baggy or a needle in the UK... It's ever so successful.
Pretty weak imo.
The gotcha is asking them to explain why they think they are worth in a day what nurses earn in four months.
Richest pm in UK history punching down at people with literally nothing, imagine people trying to get themselves out of being homeless only to find they can not get a job because they have a criminal record for begging on the streets, he and his party are spineless human being who can only pray on the vulnerable, you won't see them crack down on big businesses and the mega rich on doing anything corrupt or illegal.
I think you're getting me confused with someone else. I just said the information on the internet about Portugal's drug policy is misleading. Drugs are still illegal in Portugal and you will have serious consquences if you're caught with them.
Sorry pal. I was trying to read up from the other fellas post and seen he quoted you but must have picked it all up wrong.
No worries. For what it's worth, I think your impression of Lisbon is because, in part, Portugal wasn't a victim of the Thacher/Reagan alliance that erased the idea of society in the US/UK. People are generally engaged in their communities.
On Starmer, I agree with him that weed stinks but his constituant's life is being ruined by the fact that she doesn't live in a society where that could be easily and safely sorted with a dialogue with her neighbour.
Oh Nadine what have you done now.
"Can I ask the deputy prime minister, when he's inevitably booted out of office, what will his going rate be?"
“Absolutely no doot about tha”
Boom!
“Except for fraud..because my colleagues don’t want to be caught”