In fairness he went through several seasons where it looked like he wouldn’t do it.
I wouldn’t call it the same though, Shaw was young and injured a lot. Lindelof is fit, older snd makes more mistakes
What do people see in Lindelof?
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I wouldn’t call it the same though, Shaw was young and injured a lot. Lindelof is fit, older snd makes more mistakes
I don’t want Torres for that very reason. It’s Lindelof but Spanish
Yeah you can say that but when you’re letting straight balls bounce over your head or misjudging the flight of the ball resulting in goals you’re going to have everyone looking at whether that’s enough to get by.
or when you’re getting out muscled by Maddison. Or when you’re getting bullied on the line by a 18 year old Southampton player. Which the first video all clearly show.
I watched the Maguire video. Some errors there, others which don’t lead to goals. Other things which I’d question why they are there, like maguire making a perfectly good block and it rebounding to the opposition. That’s bad luck.
Regardless, I still think Maguire is a much better defender than Lindelof. Do I think he’s irreplaceable? No. I think we should think about it after Lindelof is done first.
It’s weird, some people seem disappointed when Lindelof had a good game and got MotM, and would preferred the Boy Scouts in Spain to have a good game.
I personally don’t think Lindelof is a better defender than Maguire. I just showed you that over the whole season, Lindelof’s performances have been rated higher than Maguire by the fans. It’s easy to forget when his form dropped at the end, but he played well for most of the season.
Yes, Lindelof has been outmuscled. How much did it cost us in comparison to other CBs being outmuscled?If we conceded 1, 2 or X goals from Maguire being outmuscled, how many goals did we concede from Lindelof being outmuscled this season? It’s not a rhetorical question, I actually curious about that.
I remember when Maguire was dribbles a couple of times and people wanted him out because he “turns slowly like an oil rig”and you could see how teams tried to isolate him to get 1v1 with him. Bit we adjusted to avoid those situations and I don’t see it as a big problem anymore. Every player has some weaknesses, question is how much it cost.
You talk about mistakes, but you think Lindelof makes more mistakes than AWB and Maguire? Varane?
You can lie to yourself but I can name more than 10 goals we conceded because of ''his lack of physicality'' alone in the last 2 seasons.
19/20 vs Palace (H) Ayew goal
19/20 vs Southampton (A) Vestergaard goal
19/20 vs Sheffield United (A) Their 3rd goal
19/20 vs Southampton (H) Obafemi's goal
19/20 vs Chelsea (Wembley) Giroud's goal
20/21 vs Palace Townsend's goal
20/21 vs Palace Zaha's goal
20/21 vs Everton Bernard's goal
20/21 vs Sheffield United McGoldrick's goal
20/21 vs West Brom Diagne's goal
20/21 vs Aston Villa Traore's goal
The difference is that those other CBs take responsible to get involved in physical battle. Lindelof doesn't!! If he gets involved as equal as Maguire in physical battle, he would lose so much more than he's done now. Stop hiding this fact and twist it to make him looks better than the reality.
How many times we ask our-self why a small guy Fred or player who is not good in header like Rashford chose to try go toe to toe with physical players during corner kick while Lindelof marking the smaller player or players in less dangerous area? May be if Lindelof is good physically, he might take Rashford or other player's spot to get involved more in physical battle in more dangerous area/zone and we would be much more secured.
I genuinely do, errors which lead to clear goal scoring chances
Or is that what the CAF wanted you to think? Because he always looked like he had it in him. Some people just don’t have patience or once they’ve made their mind up on a player that is it.
I‘m not a massive fan of Lindelof or Maguire but I do think some of the hoops people are jumping through to discredit Lindelof is a bit extreme. Personally I think he is probably the more intelligent defender out of the two and probably more refined but then Harry is physically a lot stronger but no where near as good with positioning and general decision making. However hopefully with experience and a good CB teaching him these are things he can learn where I don’t think it would be as easy to get Lindelof to the level of physicality or bravery people want.
So it will be interesting to see what happens here if we get someone in who will be to hopefully take Lindelofs spot. I’m not really that convinced on the young options I’ve seen like Pau, Kunde and the likes as again I think Harry needs someone to direct him like Lindelof does, so maybe someone like a Varane might be ideal or a cheeky bid for Laporte.
Lindelof for me is just too 'nice' to be a top level effective central defender in English top league.
He gives his all and has had some excellent games for the club and should be a valuable squad member, but if we want to push on in champions league and press for the league we need an accomplished strong no nonsense centre back to compliment Maguire....
I have high hopes for Menghi, who was on loan at Derby, if he continues to develop physically he could save us millions in years to come.Much better than Will Fish in my opinion
He gives his all and has had some excellent games for the club and should be a valuable squad member, but if we want to push on in champions league and press for the league we need an accomplished strong no nonsense centre back to compliment Maguire....
I have high hopes for Menghi, who was on loan at Derby, if he continues to develop physically he could save us millions in years to come.Much better than Will Fish in my opinion
Calling Lindelof weak physically is really not discredit him to be fair. That's true. Denying Lindelof is weak physically and using argument that we don't conceded goals from Lindelof's physical weakness is overrating the player. That's one of the example of what happened on this thread. A poster is trying to defend Lindelof and overrating the player, while other posters try to expose the overrated claim.
If you believe those goals are due to any lack of physicality or strength, then I can understand you see this type of goals goals everywhere.
Just look at those this season:
20/21 vs Palace Townsend's goal
Lack of physical ability? For not stopping the cross? Well guess he is partly at fault for that goal but wouldn’t say it was lack of physicality.
20/21 vs Palace Zaha's goal loss
Dribbled or poor balance maybe, but lack of physical ability? No.
20/21 vs Everton Bernard's goal
Partly at fault for this goal
20/21 vs Sheffield United McGoldrick's goal
Lindelof won the aerial duel but headed it in the face of McG. How could this be lack of physical ability?
20/21 vs West Brom Diagne's goal
Agree due to physical ability although a clear foul
Poor defending maybe but not due to physical ability
So 1 goal fully on him and one partly on him coming from poor physicality.
It’s zonal defence. You can read tons about it on the forum or elsewhere to learn more about it. Maguire and Lindelof are positioned on the line and AWB, Fred and Rashford further out.
The bloke is not a defender for the PL. He may be better suited in some sort of midfield role as he can pass a ball well. Can’t tackle though and is certainly targeted by opposition players.
Our current first choice back 4 is good enough to win there is no doubt, yes we could improve them given money no object and the right players being available but as you say it would not be easy. The biggest issue defensively with our team has been and continues to be the woeful defensive ability of our first choice midfield whereby we continue to ask players like Fred and McTominay to fill the CDM role when they are clearly not suited. Our back 4 would look phenomenal with a good defensive midfielder in front of them and that has to be a far higher priority than another centre back.
Yeah my worry if we uppgrade is we spend 80 million again and have no money for other positions. I think get a cheap central defender to fight with those we got and fit well to play with Maguire. Then see if that is better than Lindelöf and Maguire.
Jones we should sell so that open up a spot for a defender. I keep Tuanzebe and maybe Bailly too although if we sell one and buy a right back for the money that would be good.
He'll stay and fight for place with new signing, then we might see stronger effort from him, hopefully it'll be Shaw-Telles effect, but you never know...
I agree with you. The problem is, that if it is hard to find good centre backs, it is even harder to find a good DM. But this is where we need to cough up the big money imo.
Where did I say we should? I don't think he's good enough for us at all. But I think he could do well in a 3 back line or as a deep laying midfielder in teams that should be less ambitious than us. Although these days no one seem to actually have any ambition of winning anything at this club anyways. People seem to be getting content with being second best. It's just the never ending "it's a rebuild" excuse, so I guess he's exactly our level after all.
The single best thing about Lindelof is his ability to hit a forward pass to Rashford.
Which really isn't what you want your CB's party trick to be.
Which really isn't what you want your CB's party trick to be.
I see a thread of excuses and people willing to accept averageness as the norm
Lindelof literary made physical contact with Schlupp continuously from outside the box to inside the box and he couldn't outmuscle Schlupp. That shows lack of physicality. It's Schlupp FFS not Adama Traore.
He was losing balance in the first place because he was outmuscled easily by Zaha FFS. Gary Neville said ''WEAK'' on that goal.Does it matter if it's partly at fault or fully at fault? Stop hiding from the fact that Lindelofs lacks of physicality. The goal was part of Lindelof lacks of physicality.
Won what?
McGoldrick who was man-marked by Lindelof literary scored that header after he shook off Lindelof.Agree and there is but. Typical your bias excuses. This is the problem with you and Lindelof discussion, lying and making excuses after being exposed.
I don’t like when people throw around the word “agenda” all the time, but here it is clear you are systematically doing your best to discredit Lindelof.Lindelof literary made physical contact with Schlupp continuously from outside the box to inside the box and he couldn't outmuscle Schlupp. That shows lack of physicality. It's Schlupp FFS not Adama Traore.
Does it matter if it's partly at fault or fully at fault? Stop hiding from the fact that Lindelofs lacks of physicality. The goal was part of Lindelof lacks of physicality.
Won what?
Agree and there is but. Typical your bias excuses. This is the problem with you and Lindelof discussion, lying and making excuses after being exposed.
Like the McGoldrick goal. He scored two goals.The first from mistakes when Maguire and Henderson were pressed a little.
Second goal was a corner. Maguire was pushed down by McG, and Lindelof won the aerial but headed it in the neck of McG and it bounced back in to our goal.
Look at the replay at 9:26 and you’ll see two things:
1. Maguire was bullied.
2 Lindelof won the aerial but headed it in the head of McG so it bounced back.
Lindelof is regularly out-muscled. Whether or not he's physically dominant shouldn't even be up for discussion.
I think he'd look better next to someone with pace, but he's still inferior to Maguire.
He should be the backup to Maguire as they possess some similar traits. I really don't understand why Ole persists with that partnership. Both have looked better with other partners.
He should be the backup to Maguire as they possess some similar traits. I really don't understand why Ole persists with that partnership. Both have looked better with other partners.
Why do I care about the first goal? That has nothing to do with our discussion about Lindelof lacks of physicality and you just love to move the goal post somewhere else. We are talking about the second goal.
McGoldrick was Lindelof's man to mark not Maguire!! Lindelof let McGoldrick to be in front of him for too long and not strong enough to shook him off to be in front of McGoldrick.
Are you telling me that Lindelof was actually strong enough to shook McGoldrick off but he chose not to do it and let his own man to be in front of him because he wanted McGoldrick to score??
Of course that's not his intention, he let McGoldrick to be in front of him and unable to shook him off aside because he's not strong enough in the first place.Really not understanding how this situation is a sign of Lindelof being bullied. He won the header and to me it looks like Maguire was bullied. But I guess per definition that can’t happen.
In his defence - we did only lose 6 games across the whole premier league season. He recently played for Sweden and martialled a technically inferior swedish defence to a 0-0 draw against one of the tournament favourites. He's been defending with Fred, McT, Pogba in front of him we are clearly desperate for an upgrade in defensive midfield - so wouldnt that make Lindelof a better player. Maguire has had bad patches throughout this season. No one has been perfect including Fernandes. We lost the EL with Rashford, Cavanni, Greenwood, Pogba, Fernandes all failing to score a second goal in 120mins and yet there appears to be some sort of witch hunt against Lindelof. He's a very good solid defender - we know his strenghts and his weaknesses. I dont see a glaring need for a CB. I agree get Bailey out and replace but I think Lindelof stays. Maguire, Lindelof, Tuanzebe, AN other and AN other. We need 5 CB's for the upcominig season.
Really not understanding how this situation is a sign of Lindelof being bullied. He won the header and to me it looks like Maguire was bullied. But I guess per definition that can’t happen.
I'm not discussing the minutiae of individual events with stills. Sorry if I gave that impression.
Maguire was in front of McG but was pushed down. Lindelof was where the ball arrived or else he wouldn’t have won the header.Why do I care about the first goal? That has nothing to do with our discussion about Lindelof lacks of physicality and you just love to move the goal post somewhere else. We are talking about the second goal.
McGoldrick was Lindelof's man to mark not Maguire!! Lindelof let McGoldrick to be in front of him for too long and not strong enough to shook him off to be in front of McGoldrick.
Are you telling me that Lindelof was actually strong enough to shook McGoldrick off but he chose not to do it and let his own man to be in front of him because he wanted McGoldrick to score??
See picture in my post above above
Ok, then yes then I agree. It is his weakness but it seems like we don’t really concede many goals because of it, 1-2 this season.
Do you know the difference between missing timing for header and unable to outmuscle his man?
Missing timing for header is not the same thing as being bullied, look at Maguire, he was nowhere near where McGoldrick was. McGoldrick was Lindelof's man and it's crime to even let an attacker to be in front of you because he lost on the physical battle.
Unable to outmuscled his man and letting his man to be in front of him and scored is lack of physicality, that's what Lindelof did. You cannot let your man to be in front of you, how can you defend aerially from behind of the attacker??
ok, let this goal be the definition of Lindelof being bullied, see picture, and then I agree he has probably been bullied for 5 goals this season so we don't need to discuss this anymore.
True. Have witnessed him being out-muscled throughout his tenure here.
ok, let this goal be the definition of Lindelof being bullied, see picture, and then I agree he has probably been bullied for 5 goals this season so we don't need to discuss this anymore.
A player who can't shook off his own man/attacker but let the attacker to be in front easily, is that the same thing as being bullied or is that actually the same thing as lack of physicality?
Doesn’t have to be any of those things obviously. And being bullied doesn’t mean the player is always weak. In this case Maguire was bullied but he has good physical attributes imo.
Anyway, you’ve made your point. This is you definition of a players lacking physicality (Lindelof, but for some reason not Maguire) and then we simply have different definitions.
You just said yourself that being bullied doesn't mean weak so why are you keep bringing it up? I never say Lindelof was bullied for that goal, quote me on that!! You can't because I never say it so it makes zero for you to keep mentioning it.
The discussion is about lack of physicality, in that Sheffield United's goal, Lindelof lacks of physicality is the reason why he was unable to shook off the player (McGoldrick) he was man marking and that's why his man (McGoldrick) was able to be in front of him. If he was strong enough to shook off the player he was marking, would the goal happened? The answer is No!!
Maguire was positioned in front of McG, why would Lindelof also be positioned there? Makes no sense and he also won the ball.
In your opinion, was it Maguire’s lack of physicality that made him being bullied? Or what was the reason?
Won the ball means you either totally took control the possession of the ball or clear the ball away from dangerous area. Did Lindelof do that? No! If Lindelof is strong enough to shook off McGoldrick strength to strength, he would.
McGoldrick was not Maguire's man to mark, he was Lindelof's man to mark. Is it the right thing to lose the man you mark and let him go in front of you? How can you defend and win the ball by letting your man to be in front of you?
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Don't think there are that many people. It's just the ones who do defend him are pretty relentless.
There are several posters here who keep on coming to this thread just to s**t talk about him and to make "told you so" comments. So the relentlessness is on both sides tbh.
Exactly. Pretty much everyone knows what Lindelof provides, good on the ball, remains fit, is consistent and to be fair very good CB - just not elite and most importantly not a complimentary enough partner for Maguire due to his biggest weaknesses being strength and speed, the latter being the biggest issue in the partnership. People can debate as much as they want between the qualities of the 2 but, Maguire is captain and guaranteed starter and that's why pretty much most fans and pundits have looked at United's CB as needing attention as a priority. Despite the numbers being okay because we are setup solidly as a team, there is a reason Ole is having us look at CB options and it's not to replace Maguire.
I see a cool guy with really cool tattoos, shame about his positioning, physicality and chemistry with Maguire. He does offer a good long pass now and then, usually to Rashford, but his back play is average and is very safe. He does not look overly confident bringing the ball out from the back. Saying that, he is not a rubbish player, I just think the prem is not for him. He would do well in a league with less pressure and more space, Italy he would be a completely different player. Jose, are you reading?
Absolutely fine to keep as the back up to a hopefully signed Varane. A bit like with Jesse a lot of our fans really underrate having a good bench. I think the same about Martial too, if he wants to stay. There is no point getting rid of a good player when it weakens the squad and Lindelof is someone we should be looking to build upon not get rid of.