What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

Adnan said:
The selling club places a sporting value on the player they want to sell. And the lead negotiator for the buying club has to negotiate against the value that has been placed on the player.

If United are selling a player, then Murtough will be the one who places a Sporting value on the player being sold. Like for example Dan James, Jimmy Garner and Andreas Pereira. But it will be the chief negotiator who will be leading on negotiations. Matt Hargreaves who has recently been brought to the club is said to be taking a lead on negotiations.

And the above information I've heard routinely on transfer ground guru podcasts who are known to be well versed when it comes to breaking down a clubs football structure.
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Understood the negotiate part. They're just there as middleman with no power to decide anything (it seems like).
 
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georgipep said:
And all of the above may mean nothing if the selling club has both the resolve and negotiation power to not accept anything below their asking price, and the manager is resolved to get his desired target, no matter the price.
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If the selling club doesn't want to budge on their asking price and the buyers don't want to pay the asking price, then you pivot away to another target.

But when you have someone designated as the director of transfer/contract negotiations (Matt Judge) who has been in the role for nearly a decade, then the buck stops with him and Ed Woodward.

So going back to your original question which you posed to another poster. John Murtough was in charge last summer but he was operating under a structure created by Ed Woodward with people like Matt Judge taking a lead role in transfer and contract negotiations. And together (Woodward/Judge) they have made a mess of player contracts. I don't blame Matt Judge for overpaying on Antony last summer because it was widely reported that only £120m was allocated towards transfers by the owners for the transfer window. And that changed towards the end of the transfer window due to the pressure placed on the Glazers after the first two league games.



 
Adnan said:
If the selling club doesn't want to budge on their asking price and the buyers don't want to pay the asking price, then you pivot away to another target.

But when you have someone designated as the director of transfer/contract negotiations (Matt Judge) who has been in the role for nearly a decade, then the buck stops with him and Ed Woodward.

So going back to your original question which you posed to another poster. John Murtough was in charge last summer but he was operating under a structure created by Ed Woodward with people like Matt Judge taking a lead role in transfer and contract negotiations. And together (Woodward/Judge) they have made a mess of player contracts. I don't blame Matt Judge for overpaying on Antony last summer because it was widely reported that only £120m was allocated towards transfers by the owners for the transfer window. And that changed towards the end of the transfer window due to the pressure placed on the Glazers after the first two league games.



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But the buying club was willing to pay. Isn't that obvious?
I'd leave the performance evaluation to their superiors, who know a lot more about the context and the real facts.
We see the tip of the iceberg through fakenews glasses.
I don't know what you do for a living but you probably know that the ins and outs of a job are never made public knowledge, regardless of how many media interviews, rumours and ITKs add "facts"
 
georgipep said:
But the buying club was willing to pay. Isn't that obvious?
I'd leave the performance evaluation to their superiors, who know a lot more about the context and the real facts.
We see the tip of the iceberg through fakenews glasses.
I don't know what you do for a living but you probably know that the ins and outs of a job are never made public knowledge, regardless of how many media interviews, rumours and ITKs add "facts"
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Then why ask people questions on a football forum when you've already made up your mind?

You asked someone a question regarding John Murtough. And the answer to that was very simple, which I've explained. And Murtough's decisions will be judged based on the hiring and firing calls he makes pertaining to the football structure he creates. So the likes of Erik ten Hag, Jose Mayorga, Dominic Jordan, Matt Hargreaves etc will determine how the football structure will operate and not the structure/people he inherited like Solskjaer, Lawlor & Bout, Matt Judge etc. The answer to your question was a simple one.

I'm not involved on the structural side of a football club. But there's so much information available nowadays that if one had the interest in learning about the structural operations behind the scenes at a football club, you could learn alot. I've even listened to people like Lee Dykes, who explains in detail how they apply data to make better use of the eye test at Brentford where 15 people cover 85,000 players.
 
Adnan said:
Then why ask people questions on a football forum when you've already made up your mind?

You asked someone a question regarding John Murtough. And the answer to that was very simple, which I've explained. And Murtough's decisions will be judged based on the hiring and firing calls he makes pertaining to the football structure he creates. So the likes of Erik ten Hag, Jose Mayorga, Dominic Jordan, Matt Hargreaves etc will determine how the football structure will operate and not the structure/people he inherited like Solskjaer, Lawlor & Bout, Matt Judge etc. The answer to your question was a simple one.

I'm not involved on the structural side of a football club. But there's so much information available nowadays that if one had the interest in learning about the structural operations behind the scenes at a football club, you could learn alot. I've even listened to people like Lee Dykes, who explains in detail how they apply data to make better use of the eye test at Brentford where 15 people cover 85,000 players.
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I ask to understand people's rationale and perspective. If I find it convincing, it could make me rethink my own thoughts.

And on this specific case, you are right, I asked someone, you gave your answer and seem to assume you know what they'd answer instead. That may be, but feels a bit frivolous.

And I tried to connect the Manchester United structure and stakeholders with a more relevant situation with our (the fans) own jobs. Do you think people on this forum understand why and how you do your job, to the point to judge and evaluate your performance?
 
georgipep said:
I ask to understand people's rationale and perspective. If I find it convincing, it could make me rethink my own thoughts.

And on this specific case, you are right, I asked someone, you gave your answer and seem to assume you know what they'd answer instead. That may be, but feels a bit frivolous.

And I tried to connect the Manchester United structure and stakeholders with a more relevant situation with our (the fans) own jobs. Do you think people on this forum understand why and how you do your job, to the point to judge and evaluate your performance?
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I encourage the poster in question to come forward and answer your question. But imo, his response will be what I've already outlined earlier.

If my job was working in a professional football structure, I would expect people to discuss my role, and that's exactly what the outlet, transfer ground guru, do. Hence they regularly run the rule over people who work within a football structure and also have people on their podcasts who are directly responsible for the development of a division within a football structure. Hence I listen to such people.
 
Well today confirms we need a minimum of 7 players for this squad to compete

GK
CB (backup)
RB
DM (backup)
CM
ST
ST (backup)

You could even say a wide player as well,depends if Pellistri/Amad can step up
 
Adnan said:
I encourage the poster in question to come forward and answer your question. But imo, his response will be what I've already outlined earlier.

If my job was working in a professional football structure, I would expect people to discuss my role, and that's exactly what the outlet, transfer ground guru, do. Hence they regularly run the rule over people who work within a football structure and also have people on their podcasts who are directly responsible for the development of a division within a football structure. Hence I listen to such people.
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Totally, I listen to such experts too. But 1) I don't believe everything, and 2) I am certain they don't know everything. As a result, their information is not nearly sufficient to form my opinion.
 
georgipep said:
Totally, I listen to such experts too. But 1) I don't believe everything, and 2) I am certain they don't know everything. As a result, their information is not nearly sufficient to form my opinion.
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That's fair enough.
 
Two midfield controllers, two centre forwards and a goalkeeper are an absolute must. Also need a right back, right winger and another CB in the mould of martinez.
 
Woziak said:
The Striking positions are the most important but clearly followed by the Midfield area. We started the season thinking we might need one of each in the summer, now it’s clearly obvious we need two of both and we don’t have huge money
So here’s my options which can be done and don’t cost a fortune;

DM/CM - A Rabiot (Free)
CM/AM - M Sabitzer (20M) or M Kudas (45M)

CFW - I Toney (55M)
Versatile Striker - R Hojlund (45M)

All decent ages and Ivan Toney sorts the HG issue out too plus whilst he’s serving a likely 10 match ban we can use R Hojlund with Martial still being around as no one’s buying him full stop.

I don’t think we can get Kane because Levy will just be impossible to deal with an Osimhen will be £130-150m, the sort of money we could get all 4 players for plus we will waste so much time pursuing these two players, wasting valuable time.
Brentford will want £80m for Toney normally but he has 2 years left on his contract and will be out for 2-3 months they might as well take the money and cut their losses?
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Personally still think there is a potential top midfielder in Hannibal and Mainoo, thats why I would only go for one. Appreciate the biggest players cost a lot of money...but as mentioned we have a lot of potential money incoming from transfers this summer and you are not signing a defender when a first choice right back and second choice centre back is also important?

Granted of course we cant sign loads of big money signings this summer but we are a top four contender, not a crticisom, mroe a question, do you think those signings turn us from a top four team to title contenders. I dont really know Kudas or Hojlund, I think Sabitzer has done ok and would get better settling in, but I dont see either him or Rabiot as the first eleven player that completes our midfielder personally....we have seen the huge difference CAsemeiro makes to our side and getting someone on the same level alongside him is of course very difficult, but I feel there are other yougner players....some very expensive some not that could be great signings
 
Dannn411 said:
Two midfield controllers, two centre forwards and a goalkeeper are an absolute must. Also need a right back, right winger and another CB in the mould of martinez.
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You have absolutely nailed what we need,have to sign at least ST,CM,RB & DM (backup) this summer to compete next season
 
jesperjaap said:
Personally still think there is a potential top midfielder in Hannibal and Mainoo, thats why I would only go for one. Appreciate the biggest players cost a lot of money...but as mentioned we have a lot of potential money incoming from transfers this summer and you are not signing a defender when a first choice right back and second choice centre back is also important?

Granted of course we cant sign loads of big money signings this summer but we are a top four contender, not a crticisom, mroe a question, do you think those signings turn us from a top four team to title contenders. I dont really know Kudas or Hojlund, I think Sabitzer has done ok and would get better settling in, but I dont see either him or Rabiot as the first eleven player that completes our midfielder personally....we have seen the huge difference CAsemeiro makes to our side and getting someone on the same level alongside him is of course very difficult, but I feel there are other yougner players....some very expensive some not that could be great signings
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We need to show shrewdness in the market IF those stinking leeches are still sucking on this cash cow. I am praying with all my heart that isn't the case but psychologically preparing myself.
 
Starting Striker and casemiro backup are very obviously our 2 biggest problems IMO. Casemiro is class, but the drop off when he is out is disproportionate. We don't have a defensive midfielder other than him, just an average DM would help immensely. And then obviously up top, we have a championship level football. Martial when he's fit, the difference is as if we put in a world class player let alone it just being martial. So when we address those 2, it'll be massive.

De Gea isn't great but we can make do. CM we can make do between Eriksen and Fred to partner Casemiro and his backup.
 
We need players who can pass the fecking ball first and foremost. Shocking the lack of technical ability we have outside of Martinez, Shaw and Eriksen.
 
croadyman said:
We need to show shrewdness in the market IF those stinking leeches are still sucking on this cash cow. I am praying with all my heart that isn't the case but psychologically preparing myself.
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I still think they sell in the end. I think we need to be shrewd and ruthless with sales.

Henderson, Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, McTominay, Martial, Greenwood, Amad, Pellestri, Sancho

Not saying we should sell them all or will sell them all or possibly even be able to offload them all if we tried. I dont want to talk fees as always brings up the "nobody will buy them" "cant offload with wages".....but surely there is a lot of revenue selling even half of those players....and thats not considering the deadwood like Bailly, Telles etc etc

For me we could bring in more transfer revenue than any windows spending bar the summer gone. We could actually get six quality signings I feel with a similar net spend to most seasons if we were shrewd with our sales....its just the fact we havent been shrewd with sales for a very long time, in fact probably bar the fledglings summer....never
 
jesperjaap said:
I still think they sell in the end. I think we need to be shrewd and ruthless with sales.

Henderson, Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, McTominay, Martial, Greenwood, Amad, Pellestri, Sancho

Not saying we should sell them all or will sell them all or possibly even be able to offload them all if we tried. I dont want to talk fees as always brings up the "nobody will buy them" "cant offload with wages".....but surely there is a lot of revenue selling even half of those players....and thats not considering the deadwood like Bailly, Telles etc etc

For me we could bring in more transfer revenue than any windows spending bar the summer gone. We could actually get six quality signings I feel with a similar net spend to most seasons if we were shrewd with our sales....its just the fact we havent been shrewd with sales for a very long time, in fact probably bar the fledglings summer....never
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Henderson,Dalot,Maguire,McTominay and Martial have to leave. I would maybe even keep Amad & Pellistri and sell Sancho. Greenwood is a tricky one so glad that club aren't rushing into decision. Lindelof to keep as squad player like he is now.
 
jesperjaap said:
Personally still think there is a potential top midfielder in Hannibal and Mainoo, thats why I would only go for one. Appreciate the biggest players cost a lot of money...but as mentioned we have a lot of potential money incoming from transfers this summer and you are not signing a defender when a first choice right back and second choice centre back is also important?

Granted of course we cant sign loads of big money signings this summer but we are a top four contender, not a crticisom, mroe a question, do you think those signings turn us from a top four team to title contenders. I dont really know Kudas or Hojlund, I think Sabitzer has done ok and would get better settling in, but I dont see either him or Rabiot as the first eleven player that completes our midfielder personally....we have seen the huge difference CAsemeiro makes to our side and getting someone on the same level alongside him is of course very difficult, but I feel there are other yougner players....some very expensive some not that could be great signings
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Neither Mainoo or Hanibal are ready yet otherwise they would be playing when our MDF is clearly so poor we Need 2 maybe 3 midfielders. I’d go for Rabiot (Free) , Enzo Le Fee (30m) and M Kudas at (40-50m). Add those 3 to Erikssen, Bruno and Casemeiro with Maino getting a few cup games and we would be sorted.

Mctominay, Fred and Sabitzer (loan) need to go, if he’s not good enough for Bayern, he’s not good enough for United I say this with the hope he might still be able to change my mind?
 
Woziak said:
Neither Mainoo or Hanibal are ready yet otherwise they would be playing when our MDF is clearly so poor we Need 2 maybe 3 midfielders. I’d go for Rabiot (Free) , Enzo Le Fee (30m) and M Kudas at (40-50m). Add those 3 to Erikssen, Bruno and Casemeiro with Maino getting a few cup games and we would be sorted.

Mctominay, Fred and Sabitzer (loan) need to go, if he’s not good enough for Bayern, he’s not good enough for United I say this with the hope he might still be able to change my mind?
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Yeah you might well be right about us needing maybe 3 midfielders,however odds of two CM's is zero. There is a chance of a DM and CM if we can get McTominay out and send Sabitzer back
 
croadyman said:
Well today confirms we need a minimum of 7 players for this squad to compete

GK Raya - 40m
CB (backup) Disasi - £40m
RB Frimpong - 30m
DM (backup) Lavia - 40m
CM FDJ - 60m
ST Osimhen - 120-150m
ST (backup) Hojlund - 50m

Total - 380m
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Outs:

McT - 30m
Dalot - 30m
Telles - 10m
Maguire - 40m
VDB - 40m
Henderson - 20m
Martial - 40m
Sancho - 40m
Bailly - 15m

Total - 265m

Total expenditure - 115m

Pipe dream but this is what's needed at the very least
 
ClassOf'99 said:
Outs:

McT - 30m
Dalot - 30m
Telles - 10m
Maguire - 40m
VDB - 40m
Henderson - 20m
Martial - 40m
Sancho - 40m
Bailly - 15m

Total - 265m

Total expenditure - 115m

Pipe dream but this is what's needed at the very least
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Yeah serious adjustments are needed on your valuations for Dalot,Donny & Martial. I hate to break it to you but no chance in a million years we spend £200m on strikers.
 
croadyman said:
Yeah serious adjustments are needed on your valuations for Dalot,Donny & Martial. I hate to break it to you but no chance in a million years we spend £200m on strikers.
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Donny is still only 25, Dalot 24 & Martial is in his prime at 27.

I don't think those evaluations are far off from what a Manchester United player should sell for but I doubt we get a buyer at 20m for any of them.

That's why I said its a pipe dream, we will probably sign 1 striker and keep Martial as back up.

I just hope it's not WW as back up
 
We need players that don't lose their heads and give up cheap fouls that lead to goals when you're only down one.
 
ClassOf'99 said:
Outs:

McT - 30m
Dalot - 30m
Telles - 10m
Maguire - 40m
VDB - 40m
Henderson - 20m
Martial - 40m
Sancho - 40m
Bailly - 15m

Total - 265m

Total expenditure - 115m

Pipe dream but this is what's needed at the very least
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There is no way we are getting £40m for Martial and VDB each pipe dream indeed !
 
ClassOf'99 said:
Donny is still only 25, Dalot 24 & Martial is in his prime at 27.
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8 goals in 38 games over the last two seasons. I'd love to know how this is him in his prime!

He's incredibly injury prone and on a huge salary. We'd struggle to get rid of him even on a free transfer!
 
We're not going to get money for Martial. Only hope is to slash his wages by half and offer him a new deal to be a bit-part player on the bench or let him walk for free.
 
MegadrivePerson said:
8 goals in 38 games over the last two seasons. I'd love to know how this is him in his prime!

He's incredibly injury prone and on a huge salary. We'd struggle to get rid of him even on a free transfer!
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Prime in terms of age not performance, if he went to a less demanding league I could see him performing again with less injuries, EPL seems to be too physically demanding for him and his laziness.
 
ClassOf'99 said:
Prime in terms of age not performance, if he went to a less demanding league I could see him performing again with less injuries, EPL seems to be too physically demanding for him and his laziness.
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He went to La Liga last season and played 9 league games without scoring. There's no such thing as prime in terms of age. Some players are in their prime at the start of their career.
 
Would anyone take Brozovic here? Always impressed me when seen him play for Croatia. Cheaper than Rice, De Jong and others mentioned.
 
The-Mezzala said:
Would anyone take Brozovic here? Always impressed me when seen him play for Croatia. Cheaper than Rice, De Jong and others mentioned.
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He would be a great option to have as he can cover multiple positions in the midfield and most importantly, he can cover for Casemiro.

Very good at recycling possession, he is a unique combination of an elite passer with a highly impressive engine. Also, he possesses decent long-shooting ability which can always be helpful against teams sitting deep.

He was injured just until the WC started and was rushed into starting lineup in Qatar as Croatia doesn't have any decent backup for his role. Consequently, after WC he struggled to get back in form but recently he started to look good again at Inter, classy player.
 
Lux Thunder said:
He would be a great option to have as he can cover multiple positions in the midfield and most importantly, he can cover for Casemiro.

Very good at recycling possession, he is a unique combination of an elite passer with a highly impressive engine. Also, he possesses decent long-shooting ability which can always be helpful against teams sitting deep.

He was injured just until the WC started and was rushed into starting lineup in Qatar as Croatia doesn't have any decent backup for his role. Consequently, after WC he struggled to get back in form but recently he started to look good again at Inter, classy player.
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Looks like he proper relishes a scrap as well,still feel that we lack that in midfield (Casa aside)
 
croadyman said:
Looks like he proper relishes a scrap as well,still feel that we lack that in midfield (Casa aside)
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Yeah, if my memory is good, two seasons ago Juventus won 3:2 against Inter with too many scandalous decisions from the ref going in Juventus's favor and a Broadway show from cn*t Cuadrado.

Watched the game and knew exactly what's gonna happen - at the first opportunity he went extremely strong into Cuadrado and received a red card (second yellow I think, not straight red). Not the most rational decision to do but I absolutely loved it.
 
We need striker first and foremost.

We don't majorly need much more for starting positions but what we need is bodies. In the fergie years our players always looked fresh because they were rotated enough and regardless who played they done the job and got the result. We need strength in depth - We need the park fletcher oshea butt neville berg may type. Who mightened played every week but when they did they performed and died for the cause.
 
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