You're both right, it's not a conspiracy as much as willful ignorance. And testing infrastructure is as underfunded as maintaining it, hence why it can be difficult to find official stats, and have to largely rely on university research to tell you what's in America's water.
What in the world are they spraying? (Spoiler: Nothing)
- Thread starter Ecstasio
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
So what? Ummm. I don't know maybe the point of this thrrad is about a vaste conspiracy to spray stuff into the clouds.
And I think you are mistaking my pointing out the difference as saying it is not an issue.
Yes the fact that we let our infrastructure in places like Flint age to the point that old lead pipes are contaminating the water is a big part of the problem. Of course we know who is largely to blame for that, the politicians we elect.
And why we having bridges under maintained and power grids that are getting more fragile but that is another kind of issue.
Why should I get over Brexit? Why should I not protest a decision I consider idiotic, insulting to our neighbours, damaging to our economy and led by a campaign of liars, conspiracy theorists and ignorant racists. I know I've lost, if we're stupid enough to trigger article 50; I've lost my EU citizenship despite the fact I didn't gamble it in the first place, I've lost the voice I had on numerous European Technical committees, I've lost a large chunk of my house value, pension and buying power outside of the UK and I've potentially lost a portion of the friendship and respect I had with my European colleagues in the Engineering industry. Ian Hislop put it best on Question Time though, why should those who still believe we have made a monumentally stupid decision shut up and get over it, do we expect the party in opposition in our democracy to sit silently on the sidelines waiting their next chance in 5 years time?
Geoengineering means nothing more than earth engineering which technically covers everything, I'm actually a geotechnical engineer so spend most of my time looking at underground structures although this morning I am working on the Arrhenius curves for the half life extrapolation of various polymers exposed to atmospheric conditions and UV radiation so maybe I am out to get you and you're not just mad.
They don't ban people on here for being idiots, just for offensive opinions, if you did get the timeout i suspect from the Brexit thread it was well deserved for voicing your tinfoil ass-hattery on whether Jo Cox's death was staged by the Remain campaign. It's not ridicule you need protecting from and there's nothing wrong with having opinions "other" than the norm so long as they are founded in reality, what you need to take a break from is you-tube and the paranoid idiot side of the internet because it's seriously screwing you up.
Im intrigued by this so i went to Chemtrail Central for more info.
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/thread1587-15.html&sid=
He evidently WRITES for the Daily Mail.
So if you don't believe the chemtrail conspiracy you go to hell?
GUBMENT!
Thanks
To be fair ridicule tends to result from holding wholly unsupported, utterly ludicrous opinions and not merely for disagreeing.
A true voice of reason, gubnor.
And for another favourite:
Yes, as has been said previously in this thread scientists who actually study these things have explained over and over the nature of contrails and how they behave and yet those of us who don't buy into the "chemtrail conspiracy" are told we are the ones who need to go read up and study the information. As the quote from the end of the article states though, this evidence will simply be ignored by those whose world view it does not fit (again all while they accuse others of ignoring their flimsy, unscientific evidence).
They'll probably actually be happy about the study, and claim it proves the evil gubment forces are getting desperate. 
In the absence of a decent lead, the Express has gone for a batshit crazy one, based on some crank's view.
Chemtrails 'will wipe out humans' causing biblical-style floods, says expert
THEY'RE reportedly responsible for killing bees off in their billions and now it's been claimed Chemtrails could kill off human kind in just a few years, according to shock comments from a US expert.
And the "covert operation" could allegedly cause biblical style floods that will pour down toxic chemicals including lead and mercury leaving catastrophic results.
US eco expert Michael Tamez says the little trails of clouds that you see left behind by jet aircraft are more sinister than the average human realises.
And that it's all to do with "Stratospheric Aerosol Geoengineering" that is being kept secret from the public.
Related articles Doctor's shock claim planes make us sick so medical firms cash in 'UFO appears to vaporise aeroplane chemtrail over Paris'
GETTY
Could Chemtrails end life as we know it?
It’s a covert global operation of chemical spraying technology designed to deliver sulfide gasses to the earth’s atmosphere
US eco expert Michael Tamez
Explaining the theory, he says that there's no way the line-like clouds that are left by aircraft are responsible for the long lasting patterns in the skies.
He told Express.co.uk: "They’re long trails of cirrus clouds that stretch across the horizon and then spread out across the sky.
"After about a half hour or so, they begin to appear foggy and disappear into the air.
"It cannot be jet exhaust either since normal jet fuel contrail dissipates within seconds after the aircraft has passed."
Mr Tamez, who has written a number of books and is an environmental expert, says Chemtrails have been used for more than three decades.
But that they could lead to absolute devastation.
He added: "These cloudlike trails are known as Stratospheric Aerosol Geoengineering.
"It’s a covert global operation of chemical spraying technology designed to deliver sulfide gasses to the earth’s atmosphere to control the amount of carbon dioxide present.
"This technology has been in use since the 1980’s.
"Chemtrails are said to mimic the natural process of sulfuric action from the world’s volcanoes.
"What’s not mentioned are the side–effects we are now really starting to see. Just as in most chemicals approved by the government, the long term use of sulfur aerosol spraying has not been tested for safety."
He also says the Chemtrails are having an impact on how the Sun reacts with the Earth and it could even cause extreme weather events.
He continued: "The strength of the sun is also being diluted from the whitening effect of chemical aerosol geoengineering.
"This is causing crop failure which then leads us to rely on the government to produce more chemically grown and genetically engineered foods.
"These chemtrails can also cause extreme and prolonged periods of drought.
"Never before have we witnessed such an extreme amount of weather fluctuation across the globe.
"Extreme droughts and massive rainfalls indicate the planet is out of balance. It is also believed that chemtrails, along with electromagnetic pollution and genetic engineering, have greatly attributed to the ever disappearing honeybee population, which is another catastrophe in the making."
Flooding is just one aspect Mr Tamez is concerned about adding that the components of the rain clouds are toxic.
He added: "One of the other components found in chemtrails are barium salts.
"The chemical reaction of barium salts in the sky is said to cause water moisture to be retained in real clouds – which could be contributing to the recent spike in widespread global flooding.
"Research shows that barium salts have the capability to receive and conduct radio waves.
"What’s interesting about barium salts is that chemtrails are sprayed in straight lines across the sky – usually in multiple directions.
"Sometimes it even looks like they’re playing tic-tac-toe in the sky!
"This tic-tac-toe pattern creates a grid. The barium salt radio wave grid then becomes a giant antenna, which can be used to send and receive data.
"The craziest thing is that no one would even think to question it or connect the dots. They can just call it an 'act of God'. Are you paying attention yet?
"My biggest question is why? Who’s behind this spraying technology and what’s the agenda? When is enough, enough?
"Is it an effort to control the global population? Do they want us to depend solely on them to manufacture our food for us?
"Are they trying to dumb us down so we don’t think for ourselves? Is it an attempt to start another world war? I’ll let you make an informed decision about it."
While some are skeptical about the theory behind Chemtrails, Mr Tamez believes there's nothing natural about them.
He added: "Regardless of your viewpoint on chemtrails, it is pretty clear that normal jet fuel does not linger for minutes and even hours eventually causing a white hazed sunny daytime sky.
"This is not normal or natural.
"I want to bring awareness about the toxic chemicals that we are exposed to without our knowledge or permission. Since this is a global occurrence, it seems like at this point all we can do is detoxify our bodies of all metals and chemicals, through good nutrition and heavy metal cleanses.
"Then remember the natural beauty of this planet as it once was."
THEORY DEBUNKED?
The website Contrailscience.com aims to debunk the Chemtrails conspiracy theory.
It says that aircraft contrails are just what we have always been told they are - condensation trails.
The official definition is that when the air a jet flies through is cold enough (around -40C or colder), the air and exhaust fuel will instantly freeze and spread out into the clouds that are seen.
The website states: “The chemtrail conspiracy theory seems to frequently misidentify ordinary contrails as “chemtrails” – some kind of secret spraying program.”
It says it has “tried to gather all the debunks of this evidence in one place”.
One of the main pieces of evidence the conspiracists claim is that historically normal contrails used to dissipate in a few seconds, or minutes, but the new chemtrails last much longer.
But the debunking site has produced evidence and photographs showing lingering contrails dating back to 1918 - long before the conspiracy was ever dreamed of.
Chemtrails 'will wipe out humans' causing biblical-style floods, says expert
THEY'RE reportedly responsible for killing bees off in their billions and now it's been claimed Chemtrails could kill off human kind in just a few years, according to shock comments from a US expert.
And the "covert operation" could allegedly cause biblical style floods that will pour down toxic chemicals including lead and mercury leaving catastrophic results.
US eco expert Michael Tamez says the little trails of clouds that you see left behind by jet aircraft are more sinister than the average human realises.
And that it's all to do with "Stratospheric Aerosol Geoengineering" that is being kept secret from the public.
Related articles Doctor's shock claim planes make us sick so medical firms cash in 'UFO appears to vaporise aeroplane chemtrail over Paris'
GETTY
Could Chemtrails end life as we know it?
It’s a covert global operation of chemical spraying technology designed to deliver sulfide gasses to the earth’s atmosphere
US eco expert Michael Tamez
Explaining the theory, he says that there's no way the line-like clouds that are left by aircraft are responsible for the long lasting patterns in the skies.
He told Express.co.uk: "They’re long trails of cirrus clouds that stretch across the horizon and then spread out across the sky.
"After about a half hour or so, they begin to appear foggy and disappear into the air.
"It cannot be jet exhaust either since normal jet fuel contrail dissipates within seconds after the aircraft has passed."
Mr Tamez, who has written a number of books and is an environmental expert, says Chemtrails have been used for more than three decades.
But that they could lead to absolute devastation.
He added: "These cloudlike trails are known as Stratospheric Aerosol Geoengineering.
"It’s a covert global operation of chemical spraying technology designed to deliver sulfide gasses to the earth’s atmosphere to control the amount of carbon dioxide present.
"This technology has been in use since the 1980’s.
"Chemtrails are said to mimic the natural process of sulfuric action from the world’s volcanoes.
"What’s not mentioned are the side–effects we are now really starting to see. Just as in most chemicals approved by the government, the long term use of sulfur aerosol spraying has not been tested for safety."
He also says the Chemtrails are having an impact on how the Sun reacts with the Earth and it could even cause extreme weather events.
He continued: "The strength of the sun is also being diluted from the whitening effect of chemical aerosol geoengineering.
"This is causing crop failure which then leads us to rely on the government to produce more chemically grown and genetically engineered foods.
"These chemtrails can also cause extreme and prolonged periods of drought.
"Never before have we witnessed such an extreme amount of weather fluctuation across the globe.
"Extreme droughts and massive rainfalls indicate the planet is out of balance. It is also believed that chemtrails, along with electromagnetic pollution and genetic engineering, have greatly attributed to the ever disappearing honeybee population, which is another catastrophe in the making."
Flooding is just one aspect Mr Tamez is concerned about adding that the components of the rain clouds are toxic.
He added: "One of the other components found in chemtrails are barium salts.
"The chemical reaction of barium salts in the sky is said to cause water moisture to be retained in real clouds – which could be contributing to the recent spike in widespread global flooding.
"Research shows that barium salts have the capability to receive and conduct radio waves.
"What’s interesting about barium salts is that chemtrails are sprayed in straight lines across the sky – usually in multiple directions.
"Sometimes it even looks like they’re playing tic-tac-toe in the sky!
"This tic-tac-toe pattern creates a grid. The barium salt radio wave grid then becomes a giant antenna, which can be used to send and receive data.
"The craziest thing is that no one would even think to question it or connect the dots. They can just call it an 'act of God'. Are you paying attention yet?
"My biggest question is why? Who’s behind this spraying technology and what’s the agenda? When is enough, enough?
"Is it an effort to control the global population? Do they want us to depend solely on them to manufacture our food for us?
"Are they trying to dumb us down so we don’t think for ourselves? Is it an attempt to start another world war? I’ll let you make an informed decision about it."
While some are skeptical about the theory behind Chemtrails, Mr Tamez believes there's nothing natural about them.
He added: "Regardless of your viewpoint on chemtrails, it is pretty clear that normal jet fuel does not linger for minutes and even hours eventually causing a white hazed sunny daytime sky.
"This is not normal or natural.
"I want to bring awareness about the toxic chemicals that we are exposed to without our knowledge or permission. Since this is a global occurrence, it seems like at this point all we can do is detoxify our bodies of all metals and chemicals, through good nutrition and heavy metal cleanses.
"Then remember the natural beauty of this planet as it once was."
THEORY DEBUNKED?
The website Contrailscience.com aims to debunk the Chemtrails conspiracy theory.
It says that aircraft contrails are just what we have always been told they are - condensation trails.
The official definition is that when the air a jet flies through is cold enough (around -40C or colder), the air and exhaust fuel will instantly freeze and spread out into the clouds that are seen.
The website states: “The chemtrail conspiracy theory seems to frequently misidentify ordinary contrails as “chemtrails” – some kind of secret spraying program.”
It says it has “tried to gather all the debunks of this evidence in one place”.
One of the main pieces of evidence the conspiracists claim is that historically normal contrails used to dissipate in a few seconds, or minutes, but the new chemtrails last much longer.
But the debunking site has produced evidence and photographs showing lingering contrails dating back to 1918 - long before the conspiracy was ever dreamed of.
I swear the Express used to be a serious newspaper. Recently though, even a casual read reveals that we're all going to die by virtue of massive snowfalls, asteroid earthquakes, the plague, PS4 and semi-skimmed milk tsunamis.
It was a tabloid sized version of the Torygraph with a hint of Daily Mail when I was a kid but it seems to have gone full Mail now.
Are people discussing here whether cloud seeding and weather manipulation exists or the reasons why it is done and on what scale?
I thought is was accepted with the only debate is why and how much.
I thought is was accepted with the only debate is why and how much.
Did you read the article @Jippy posted? That's what is being discussed. The deluded ramblings of idiots.
EDIT: Not talking about Jippy here. Don't think he's deluded.
EDIT: Not talking about Jippy here. Don't think he's deluded.
Neither. They believe passenger planes are spraying something to do something
Well....
At least get the claims right before an attempt at condescension. It hardly does your side any good to intentionally obfuscate what people are claiming just to belittle them. You may know some claims are ridiculous, but what you do in effect is cherry pick the most outrageous claims and ignore the reasonable arguments to make the entire theory seem insane. It's intellectual snobbery or cowardice. Either way not very integral. If you want to deny cloud seeding then you might as well deny your breath. If you can't extrapolate that into something more than a cure for arrid farm land then you really have no imagination, a key ingredient for scienctific progress and the furthering of our understanding.
Evidence is usually a key ingredient for scientific progress and the furthering of our understanding too. Without it imagination tends to run riot....
Jesus!
What did I say was incorrect?
Are passenger planes not included in this conspiracy theory?
What argument in this whole theory is reasonable? Genuine question.
The problem with your conspiracy theory, as with all conspiracy theories, is there are too many competing theories for any coherent argument to be made.
I've heard Chemtrails are about mind control, to enhance global warming, weather modification, etc etc. As wikipedia says
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory
So sorry if I don't know all the details about your specific idiotic beliefs.
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Cloud seeding exists yes. Massive secret govt programs to spread mind control drugs, cause diseases, cause massive hurricanes, destroy nations by controlling the weather, etc, not so much.
I just had to read this whole thread.
Holy hell, absolutely batshit
I think my highlight (and it was hard to pick) was the suggestion that everyone discredits the theory because it's not in the mainstream media, as opposed to the fact it's obviously bonkers.
Holy hell, absolutely batshit
I think my highlight (and it was hard to pick) was the suggestion that everyone discredits the theory because it's not in the mainstream media, as opposed to the fact it's obviously bonkers.
It used to be the top paper back in the 1940s and 1950s from what I can gather, but with Richard Desmond in charge, it's not surprising it's in the gutter.
Amazed anyone managed to read that article I posted- formatting was awful cos I put it up using my phone.
I have my moments, I guess...
Fair enough people claim commercial airliners are part of this conspiracy. My point is why pick the obviously weak points to argue? Serious proponents of this theory have some interesting observations and equally interesting questions. Challenge those instead.
Forgive me it's been probably 15 years since I last looked at this seriously. For me the possibility is enough reason to ask questions and investigate. Cloud seeding is real. Is it not conceivable that some corporation or government somewhere is looking into future techs that involve spreading chemicals or check charged particles or nanotechnology bots into the atmosphere? Or simply undertaking some research of some kind? Before dismissing things out of hand purely based on the fact there are some quacks talking about the same thing with some crazy interpretations take some time to ponder the possibilities while ignoring the fantastical.
Wikipedia is useless if you want to look up these theories. You should know that. I've heard all those same claims. I've even heard claims that ET's are trying to adapt the climate so they can inhabit our planet. Whatever. Personally I ignore them. It doesn't mean that people are wrong to ask questions out of concern for their wellbeing.
About your last sentence. You could have left it out. It shows how difficult it is for you to digest an idea that challenges your world view. In psychology they call it cognitive dissonance. For the record, the conspiracy in question here is not my theory neither is it my belief.
Waste of energy. Anyone with anything interesting to say would have distanced them from such ridiculous notions.
Funny thing is every single one of these types of threads that get started here end up with the person who believes the conspiracy bringing something like this up all the while they have been displaying the very same attribute by not being able to "digest" any ideas that challenge their world view.
The problem with saying things like well we know cloud seeding is real therefore all we have to do is apply a little imagination to come up with the idea that the technology could be taken further to fit a particular conspiracy theory is that it basically is saying that if you can think it up then that somehow supports it being real. Basically then every theory is real, even the ones that contradict each other.
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Isn't cognitive dissonance having two competing, incompatible and inconsistent views being held by the same person? For instance: literally believing in Genesis, but also believing in the Big Bang. Not liking your world view being challenged is surely a different thing. Not that it matters I guess.
Not going to argue with that lol.
There is a question about what information should be presented though. Serious lack of info causes half of these baked ideas.
Yes it can be a case of an individual holding conflicting opinions, it can also be a case of an individual experiencing mental stress when faced with information or ideas that contradict said individuals world view.
I wouldn't say it applies to Christians believing in creation and the big bang at all. Their beliefs about creation and big bang compliment each other. They believe God created life through natural means. And big bang is it. Until another theory of the origins of the universe is universally accepted.
That may be true for some people. In my experience the decent proponents of this theory are just exploring. They are open to either side. They don't react in the same manner a lot of their opponents do. They have their ideas and theories and they have their observations and results from little experiments and they discuss it honestly and openly. When they react badly is when they are confronted with hostility, aggression and abuse.
Interesting, ridiculous, notions. These are subjective. If you don't find it interesting that's fine. But then why waste your energy arguing over it?