Where do Mata and Di Maria fit?

Silverman

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I am trying to come up with a starting 11 that id like to see for next season but I am unsure about where to play Mata and Di Maria.
Mata is best in the attacking midfield role which we don't really play with in the 4-3-3. Fellaini's position would probably be the closest to it.

I feel that Di Maria is better off as the LCM or AM as he is less isolated through the centre. I don't like seeing him on the wing.

I honestly can't see a formation working with the two of them in the team especially if we are going to sign Depay or Bale and also with some wanting Herrera moved to Fellaini's position.

Then theres the case of selling either player.

Where would everyone play the two of these guys?
 
I actually like Mata on the right, if we sign a playmaker that can spot a run he will score for fun. We need to balance it out with someone that can go past A defender on the other flank and Di Maria is more than cacapable.
 
How about leave Mata where he is now and replace Fellaini with Di Maria? Though that could leave the midfield looking weak.
 
Assuming we stick to the current 4-3-3, I would personally have di Maria in Fellaini's position and Mata wide right. Memphis (or a similar signing) wide left to replace Young, who I would drop to the bench.

Herrera Carrick di Maria
Mata Rooney Memphis
 
Raw said:
How about leave Mata where he is now and replace Fellaini with Di Maria? Though that could leave the midfield looking weak.
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Thats what I was thinking. If we can get Depay for the left to help the midfield then I think we're good to go.
 
Ballache said:
I actually like Mata on the right, if we sign a playmaker that can spot a run he will score for fun. We need to balance it out with someone that can go past A defender on the other flank and Di Maria is more than cacapable.
Click to expand...

i also always prefered Mata from the wing, he played great for both Valencia and Chelsea in that role. Give him a player next to him who can combine in tight spaces and provides constant movement on the ball and he will shine. We saw that when Herrera played there, we are awful when Rooney plays there because he is pretty shit as a midfielder. Doesnt have good movement(midfielder), in possession his first option is diagonal ball for winger :rolleyes:

We should try Di Maria in Fellaini position......
 
They are both excellent players and they both can play on the wings and be lethal, assuming that we will continue with the same tactics next season. They just need more help from their teammates when we have possession in the final third. In the matches against teams that weren't defending with ten men behind the ball and there were spaces to exploit they both did ok, especially Mata.

The problems emerge when we have to open up very narrow defenses. It's true that both of them struggle to get past their marker from a standing position, they need the right off the ball movement around them. But the main reason we face such narrow shaped defenses is because we can't stretch teams by using our FBs. Most opposition managers choose to allow Valencia and Shaw/Blind/Rojo enough space and time on the ball because they don't consider them a threat. Things would be very different for Mata, Di Maria or even Young if they didn't run into a two man wall every time they tried to cut inside with the ball or make a run in the box without it.

The other popular suggestion is a three man midfield of Carrick, Herrera and Di Maria. Well, i still believe that that for a possession based side this is a very lightweight midfield. Carrick is a holding midfielder, not a mobile, ball winning DM and he usually stays a bit deeper to protect the defense and uses his excellent long passes to help with the build up. Di Maria concedes possession easily in the final third and that will leave Herrera with a lot of defensive work to do, a lot of closing down to prevent the opponent on the ball from running straight through our midfield and reaching our third in no time. If we were playing counter attacking football, it could be more effective but now we need players who can hold on to the ball in the attacking half and close down attackers in the midfield.

Someone wrote that Di Maria should play in the midfield cause he will find more spaces to exploit there. I disagree with that, in modern football the hardest area on the pitch to find open spaces is through the central channels. The whole point of using Fellaini there is because he can protect possession in tight spaces in between the lines, win headers and try to link with the forward and the wingers. Di Maria hasn't shown any signs that he can do that this season.
 
Mata has done well on the right so far. Di Maria could eventually displace Fellaini or Young.
 
Either:

Carrick
Mata - Gundogan - Di Maria - Bale
Rooney​

OR

Carrick
Bale - Gundogan - Mata - Di Maria
Rooney​
 
Silverman said:
I am trying to come up with a starting 11 that id like to see for next season but I am unsure about where to play Mata and Di Maria.
Mata is best in the attacking midfield role which we don't really play with in the 4-3-3. Fellaini's position would probably be the closest to it.

I feel that Di Maria is better off as the LCM or AM as he is less isolated through the centre. I don't like seeing him on the wing.

I honestly can't see a formation working with the two of them in the team especially if we are going to sign Depay or Bale and also with some wanting Herrera moved to Fellaini's position.

Then theres the case of selling either player.

Where would everyone play the two of these guys?
Click to expand...

Get a proper No 8 next to Carrick. Mata, Di Maria and Herrera to take the No 10 and Right wing slot based on form. If Herrera plays as the 10, its either of Mata or Di Maria out on the right. Or both Mata and Di Maria play with both drifting into the 2 roles throughout the game.
 
Carrick
Mata - Herrera - Di Maria - Depay
Rooney
​
That's how we should start next season.
 
Di Maria is better when he has freedom, van Gaal said he's less restricted but still has to fit in with the team more. I don't think he'll be at his best for us in midfield, because he's better at taking people on and has a fantastic cross. He suited RM's midfield but they don't play possesion based football, in our midfield his qualities would be limitted too much. I'm pretty sure van Gaal prefers him in the wing, we haven't seen him in midfield for a while now.

Mata on the other hand is a perfect van Gaal 10 imo. He can give assists, score goals and has great vision/technique. The obvious negative about him is his physicality and defensive workrate. Van Gaal made Sneijder into a hard working defender for the worldcup and I have a feeling he might want to do the same with Mata since he has all the other qualities van Gaal likes. He's not useless when it comes to defending and can certainly put pressure on opponents.

I have a feeling that when our midfield has defensive balance we'll see Mata there again and not Di Maria. Di Maria will probably get a place on the right wing (maybe the left). Mata will still play on the wing at times since he's clearly good enough for van Gaal and he likes multifunctionality. (I use Strootman as an example since pre-injury he would've been the player van Gaal would've bought, I think we'll get a player like him)

Strootman
Herrera -- Mata
Di Maria -- Rooney -- Memphis​
 
Mata is less of a problem as even if we don't revert to a formation that lets him play behind the striker we've still seen that he can contribute a lot from his current position. Given that he's happy here and LVG has said he's one of our best players I'd say he'll be fine.

Di Maria is the one I have difficulty fitting in, mostly because I can't if he's ill suited to certain positions in our system or just terribly out of form.
 
Ship Rooney out and there are no problems in fitting either in the team.
 
Mojo_ said:
Ship Rooney out and there are no problems in fitting either in the team.
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How did you work out that Rooney, who Van Gaal seems to want to play as a striker, has an impact on a winger/midfielder and an attacking midfielder? The Mata part I can sort of understand, but with the rumours that Van Persie will be sold that means that Rooney will not be directly competing with Mata for the attacking midfield role.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Carrick
Bale - Gundogan - Mata - Di Maria
Rooney​
Click to expand...
I like this one. Swap Herrera for Mata, and it's golden.
Then keep Mata as a versatile impact sub.

I wouldn't be bothered if Di Maria left either, so someone else on that left wing would be great too!
 
Last edited:
Carrick
Mata - Herrera - Di Maria - Young
Striker

Young naturally cuts inside which could allow Di Maria the space to drift in to. Young is also willing to work hard and seems to be more than willing to play to whatever instructions he is given. As he isn't a genuine threat in the final third (more often than not) why not encourage him to cut in closer to the half way line and support the central midfield. Shaw can overlap and Di Maria can explode in to the space depending on the situation.

As far as individual players go I would prefer Nani (and many other players) to Young but Mata, Herrera and Di Maria are all attack minded and maybe Young can be the balance that allows for that.

The more I look and think about it though it seems someone will either have to go or get used to being a plan b, especially if we are looking at an upgrade on Young.

An even more odd/experimental idea might be to put Blind in for Young. He can cover for both Di Maria and Herrera when they break forward and we already know he links up well on the left.
 
I don't see it being necessarily either/or. Form, fitness and tactical change will probably be behind the selection decisions. They will have first choice positions, but I see the starting XI flux as quality depth grows.
 
The only way I can see it is Mata RW, Di Maria LW and Rooney up top. Which would be absolutely fine by me. Good balance there. Basically replace Young with ADM in the formation we were playing against Liverpool/City Etc.
 
Joemo said:
How did you work out that Rooney, who Van Gaal seems to want to play as a striker, has an impact on a winger/midfielder and an attacking midfielder? The Mata part I can sort of understand, but with the rumours that Van Persie will be sold that means that Rooney will not be directly competing with Mata for the attacking midfield role.
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Get with the times, if there's a problem it is Rooney's fault.
 
It's a shame, but we shouldn't try and shoehorn them in for the sake of it. There's far too much bodge job type positioning going on at the moment. I'd rather not get rid of any but if it's affecting the team I'd accept it. I guess DM would be the obvious choice to go out of them.
That said, maybe we should hold onto as much quality as possible, just in case things don't work out with LVG and a new manager has other ideas (before anyone says anything, I'm not saying it won't work out, but you'd be naive to think there isn't a chance).
 
It's very easy, drop Fellaini, move Mata to his best position and play Di Maria as the right winger, Young on the left. It's so simply,yet, we want to over analyze it.
 
People now want Di Maria behind the striker, I remember the reactions here when LVG did exactly that and it did not work.
 
Joemo said:
Dammit! And here I was blaming Carrick for getting injured, LVG for not picking Rafael and Nani for existing.
Click to expand...
Clearly Rooney told Jones to injure Carrick and Rooney picks the team so its his fault Rafael doesn't play and he never used to pick Nani either and when he did he never passed him the ball and acted like he didn't exist. Wayne acted like it was all a big joke just slowly disintegrating Nani into thin air.
 
Raw said:
How about leave Mata where he is now and replace Fellaini with Di Maria? Though that could leave the midfield looking weak.
Click to expand...
Think we should at least try this.

If im not mistaken, his best form came when he was on the left of a diamond?
 
DWelbz19 said:
Why would you drop our best central midfielder?
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Carrick's in the team. :p

Seriously, though, the reason is, Van Gaal has constantly said we need balance in our midfield. If we get Gundogan, I assume he will play at number 8 to give us that balance - similar to what a Strootman does, for example.

As for the 10, Van Gaal likes to play his 10's very high up the pitch - almost like a second striker, at times, which is why I feel it would suit Mata or even Rooney more. They also chip in with more goals than Herrera when played in the advanced midfield position.

That's my reasoning behind it anyway, but I really wouldn't mind seeing Herrera in that number 10 position, or the advanced midfield role, if you like. He played there for Bilbao, and from what I can remember, he was awesome.
 
Speak said:
I like this one. Swap Herrera for Mata, and it's golden.
Then keep Mata as a versatile impact sub.

I wouldn't be bothered if Di Maria left either, so someone else on that left wing would be great too!
Click to expand...

To be honest, that sounds good too. The only reason I put Mata over Herrera is because of his goal threat, but I guess Herrera has shown this season that when he gets a chance in and around the box, more often than not, he ends up scoring.

As for Di Maria, I'm with you. He's never really been great on the wing, and I really can't see his form improving if we continue to play him there. Like yourself, I wouldn't mind replacing Di Maria if it meant us getting a top left winger. Thing is, there's not many out there. Well, available ones anyway. Depay seems to be an option, but I'm not sure he's ready to be put straight into our starting XI.
 
GloryHunter07 said:
Think we should at least try this.

If im not mistaken, his best form came when he was on the left of a diamond?
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Yep, until the Leicester game where our defence capitulated. Went back with the 352 after that which stifled Di Maria somewhat. Perhaps with an improved defence, LVG can go for Di Maria in that role again.
 
Raw said:
How about leave Mata where he is now and replace Fellaini with Di Maria? Though that could leave the midfield looking weak.
Click to expand...

You don't need "strength" in midfield as long as you're technically strong - it's a definite mind over matter area of the game. Look at Madrid last year: Alonso, Modric, Di Maria; Barca's midfield: Busquets, Iniesta, Rakitic. Obviously those midfields, while being great themselves, have some of the best forward ahead of them, but in terms of winning midfield battles, they definitely didn't/don't need "big lads".

Chelsea have played a Matic-Fabregas midfield for most of the season. Admittedly, Matic is a beast, but aside from him, their midfield is never particularly strong. Arsenal - the most in-form team at the moment - play Coquelin, Ramsey and Cazorla. We won titles with a midfield of Carrick-Giggs-Scholes.

Carrick-Herrera-Di Maria is probably the most technically gifted midfield trio in the league. Matic-Fabregas-Oscar pushes them close.
 
TooBias said:
You don't need "strength" in midfield as long as you're technically strong - it's a definite mind over matter area of the game. Look at Madrid last year: Alonso, Modric, Di Maria; Barca's midfield: Busquets, Iniesta, Rakitic. Obviously those midfields, while being great themselves, have some of the best forward ahead of them, but in terms of winning midfield battles, they definitely didn't/don't need "big lads".

Chelsea have played a Matic-Fabregas midfield for most of the season. Admittedly, Matic is a beast, but aside from him, their midfield is never particularly strong. Arsenal - the most in-form team at the moment - play Coquelin, Ramsey and Cazorla. We won titles with a midfield of Carrick-Giggs-Scholes.

Carrick-Herrera-Di Maria is probably the most technically gifted midfield trio in the league. Matic-Fabregas-Oscar pushes them close.
Click to expand...
I completely agree. I was thinking that Matic and Fabregas would be similar to a combo of Carrick and Herrera while Chelsea play three attacking midfielders ahead of them (although they are good defensively)
 
TooBias said:
You don't need "strength" in midfield as long as you're technically strong - it's a definite mind over matter area of the game. Look at Madrid last year: Alonso, Modric, Di Maria; Barca's midfield: Busquets, Iniesta, Rakitic. Obviously those midfields, while being great themselves, have some of the best forward ahead of them, but in terms of winning midfield battles, they definitely didn't/don't need "big lads".

Chelsea have played a Matic-Fabregas midfield for most of the season. Admittedly, Matic is a beast, but aside from him, their midfield is never particularly strong. Arsenal - the most in-form team at the moment - play Coquelin, Ramsey and Cazorla. We won titles with a midfield of Carrick-Giggs-Scholes.

Carrick-Herrera-Di Maria is probably the most technically gifted midfield trio in the league. Matic-Fabregas-Oscar pushes them close.
Click to expand...

on paper yes but only Carrick has had a consistent season out of the three you mention. personally i'm still unconvinced of herrera as the right man for a midfield three in a team that wins the league. Hopefully i'm wrong as he seems like a nice lad but hes not shown me much toconvince me that he will run games the way fabregas can.

I would also point out that Alonso is a pretty tough character.
 
If we play Mata on the right, then we need a fullback who will be able overlap, and either get into the box, or provide a good cross. Valencia should be doing that right now, but watching him play you would never guess that he once played as a winger. Di Maria best position might be where Fellaini is playing now, but he needs show up when he gets a chance to play. Di Marai has always had this issue, when he is on, he looks World class, but when he if off, he stinks up the place.
 
Rooney
Mata
di Maria - Blind - Herrera
Carrick
Shaw - Rojo - Smalling - Valencia
Dave​

Only way to really fit them in and play them in their best positions. Wouldn't work though I don't think.
 
If, for whatever reason, we had to fit these two in, I'd go for:

-----------------de Gea
Valencia---Centre ---Backs---Shaw
----------------Carrick--------------
------Hererra----------Fellani-------
---------------Di Maria-----------
----------Mata------Rooney----


Not something I'd go for though. Much prefer 433, which means at least one of them has to miss out.
 
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