Seventh is okay if I'm not mistaken.
Where do you expect us to finish this season?
- Thread starter Orton
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Except that people didn't predict that Moyes will turn out to be a disaster against all odds, but based their opinion on very logical things. Predicting that he will become a success was against all odds, and Fergie gaving him the job doesn't suddently upgrades Moyes' skills by 300%. The better analogy would have been if you predicted Suarez to become the league's top scorer this year and people laughing with you (because Suarez will miss some games, because he is a bellend, Liverpool hahaha) and then he would become the league's top scorer. It wouldn't make you neither an idiot not a genius to predict that. It would make you a person who base your opinion on logic and not on faith (and being unbiased).
Eighth. Seventh could still send us to UCL if City defeat Sunderland and both he winner and the runner up of Fa Cup are on top 6.
You could have given the manager job to a man with far less impressive credentials than Moyes and still expect him to finish well within the top 4. He inherited the Champions after all. And while Fergie appointing him doesn't make him better than he originally is, it still says something about his character. If I were to count the comments online saying things like "if this is Fergie's man, then he must have something", then I'd be stuck on the computer for ages. Extremely few people would have predicted even a fraction of this season's failures. And the people who predicted this are crazy sensationalists, overly pessimistic cnuts, and opposing supporters with wishful thinking.
Being concerned is one thing. Expecting a total shipwreck is another thing entirely. But I'm gonna give up here, because you're clearly Captain Hindsight, basking in this moment.
No, I am not. The only difference between people who predicted things to go wrong and those who predicted that Moyes will be brilliant was that the first group tried to be as objective and unbiased as possible. I would have loved if we won everything under Moyes (or under any other manager, I dislike Pulis but if I know that we'll win everything with him I'll be happy with him) but just it was something that I couldn't see. Fergie is brilliant but to me it was clear from the beginning that he made his decision with the heart not head.
On the other side you are saying that people who predicted things to go bad are idiots and cnuts (which is also against the forum rules) and it is unnecesarily calling me indirectly a cnut/idiot in a totally unprovoced debate. Especially when you have been on Moyes out camp for some time.
10th. Mid Table Moyes.
That was what I was told by someone in August. Sadly it is closer to reality than I'd like.
That was what I was told by someone in August. Sadly it is closer to reality than I'd like.
Most people(myself included) didn't predict that Moyes was gonna be brilliant. But we expected him to do a mediocre job at the very least, seeing as he inherited the Champions. All common sense suggested this. That's why so few experts predicted such a crisis as we're currently in. Because it was extremely unlikely. I honestly think that given the set of players at his disposal, Moyes has done as badly as it's possible to do domestically.
I also love how you get all defensive, when it was you who tried to make a fool out of me by quoting an ancient post
Most people(myself included) didn't predict that Moyes was gonna be brilliant. But we expected him to do a mediocre job at the very least, seeing as he inherited the Champions. All common sense suggested this. That's why so few experts predicted such a crisis as we're currently in. Because it was extremely unlikely. I honestly think that given the set of players at his disposal, Moyes has done as badly as it's possible to do domestically.
I also love how you get all defensive, when it was you who tried to make a fool out of me by quoting an ancient post
No it's not. You'll see in the next few games what it means to be as bad as possible.
I quoted you more as a part of the joke for Kagawa. You called me a cnut and idiot for making a correct prediction though
You called me a cnut and idiot for making a correct prediction though
An idiot, yes. Surely that's not the worst insult you've received? Especially not after acting like a dick first?
Good then. Valencia and Young will be here next season (assuming that Moyes will be here too) while Kagawa and Chicha won't. This is also illogical (based on their quality) and I will be proven an idiot if/when this happens.
Southampton probably. Lisbon looks unlikely at this stage.
TOTALLY comparable examples! Thanks for that, I need a good laugh before going to bed.
Yep. Just that a lot of people have gone from auto-support mode to logical mode. So it looks very different.
7th and in the Europa League.
7th.
There's a gap between the 2 teams above us and the 2 teams behind us. We're like a thin slice of reconstituted ham stuck between two doorstep slices of bread.
Ah well, here is to the transfer muppet spectacular of this summer and the 14/15 season.
There's a gap between the 2 teams above us and the 2 teams behind us. We're like a thin slice of reconstituted ham stuck between two doorstep slices of bread.
Ah well, here is to the transfer muppet spectacular of this summer and the 14/15 season.
The first few pages are comedy gold. I knew this would happen.
I also predicted Fulham snatching a draw which I got blasted for. I know my football unfortunately...
I also predicted Fulham snatching a draw which I got blasted for. I know my football unfortunately...
7th but with the gap widening from fourth due to our dreadful form in 2014 and the tough fixtures coming up (although maybe the concept of "tough fixtures" has become redundant after Sunday).
We're going to get a surprise win at the Emirates but still finish 7th.
I thought I was being realistic with 4th, how wrong was I.
This is extraordinary. Saying people who predicted, correctly, what would happen are crazy sensationalists and overly pessimistic? How does that work. They were proved correct.
I also think you massively underestimate the role of the manager at a football club with the bit in bold.
The facts are against you here Im afraid.
I suppose you'd like to put me in the latter category, but my prediction of failure was based on far more than wishful thinking .... as evidenced by the £50 bet I agreed to with Top that Spurs would finish above United this season.
I'd guess that many opposition fans were, like me, amazed at the appointment of Moyes and could sense the looming disaster.
What an overly simplistic world view. If I bet that City was gonna beat us 6-1 at Old Trafford back in 2011, then my bet would have been considered crazy. Just because it happened in the end, it doesn't change the fact that it was a crazy bet before kick off(or half time at that matter). That is my point here. Betting on our level falling this much in less than a season, was about as crazy and unreasonable as betting on City beating us 6-1 at Old Trafford in 2011. That is the main reason for the "Moyes out"-brigade having grown so much in 2014. When you have the Champions at your disposal, it shouldn't be possible to be as bad at your job as Moyes is. He's delivered way below reasonable expectations, even among his critics. That's how bad he's been.
Anoyone who betted that things were gonna turn out like this, made a bet against the odds and experts. In other words, a crazy bet. You can gloat about being right, but you weren't right because of common sense. When Fergie couldn't see this coming from a mile away, then it just proves how crazy the current situation is.
Last edited:
So you'd start playing chicha ahead of RVP/ Rooney/Mata to solve this would you? Young is in the top ten all time premiership assists, I don't think his quality is in doubt in fairness, he's been fine in recent week, just not 'continental'
Nope. He should get more playtime ans start above Welbeck though.
Young is shit. Downing was brilliant for Villa too but his level was there. Same about Young.
And as a matter of fact I would have played Kagawa above Rooney/RVP (hetting rid of one of them) on a 4-5-1 system because Rooney-RVP combo didn't work last year that great, this year has been terrible and it won't ever work. It is more important the balance of the team rather than how good are players individually (both better than Kagawa). My dream scenario would have been to play RVP as a striker while three of Nani, Kagawa, Januzaj and Mata to play behind him as attacking midfielder.
You have clearly overrated Moyes there or haven't watched his Everton side.
I am saying that there were plenty of people who predicted that United will finish outside of top 4. It was based on logical things. I thought that it will go bad and Moyes won't win anything for us but we'll still finish on the fourth place (although wasn't sure for that). But there were a lot of others who predicted that things will go even wrong and there wasn't anything crazy about that prediction. City or Chelsea will be champions this year but if in the summer their manager get replaced by Allardyce then it isn't anything crazy to predict that they'll finish outside of top 4 on 2014-2015. Predicting that they'll challenge for the title would be a bit crazy though.
If someone had argued rationally and convincingly why we might get spanked by City before it happened, and then it happened, it wouldnt be crazy. Its not a great analogy Im afraid. The fact is people had very logical reasons to believe this would be a difficult year, maybe people didnt expect it to be this bad but they expected it to be tough and, recognising that, the same people probably arent astonished about how bad it has been. Surprised, massively disappointed yes. But if you expect a storm and you get a hurricane you cant say you are stunned about it, it is just even worse than you thought.
Predicting that we'll end up outside the top 4 was fair enough. Not many people predicted this, but some people did. I can get that.
But right now we're in 7th place, 9 points off 4th place with pretty much no chance of turning things around, and we're also out of both domestic cups without even reaching the final of either. Almost nobody would have predicted that, and rightly so. It's a crazy situation.
Away to Southampton
8th or below, so that we don't have to play in europa league next season, me being realistic. by focusing in premiership only, maybe it's the right time for moyes to prove himself as.....eerrr....the chosen one 
Is this Mad Winger fella having a meltdown because he couldn't imagine us being this low in the table at this point?
It's not as crazy a situation as you make out.
We have a pretty fragile squad and knew about Moyes heavy training. So people predicted a fair few injuries.
New manager bringing in his style. Which at Everton wasn't great. Always takes time for players to get used to it.
A bunch of new back room staff instead of keeping the old. Had to be a shock to the players.
Other squads improving last year and during the summer. We bought Fellaini.
Fergie leaving, clubs didn't fear our manager anymore.
It was massive change in a small amount of time. It's not major shock to some. Just because you couldn't blatantly see it yourself it's wrong to say people who thought this were crazy. You say it as if they were misinformed.
Maybe anyone who predicted it just knew more than people predicting top 4?
It's not as crazy a situation as you make out.
We have a pretty fragile squad and knew about Moyes heavy training. So people predicted a fair few injuries.
New manager bringing in his style. Which at Everton wasn't great. Always takes time for players to get used to it.
A bunch of new back room staff instead of keeping the old. Had to be a shock to the players.
Other squads improving last year and during the summer. We bought Fellaini.
Fergie leaving, clubs didn't fear our manager anymore.
It was massive change in a small amount of time. It's not major shock to some. Just because you couldn't blatantly see it yourself it's wrong to say people who thought this were crazy. You say it as if they were misinformed.
Maybe anyone who predicted it just knew more than people predicting top 4?
Indeed. What level would you consider your football knowledge at? An expert maybe, or perhaps a teacher? Have you ever thought about giving people like me, who aren't as knowledgeable about footall, lessons?
4th, we'll pip the 4th place from Liverpool on the last day of the season.
I looked back in the thread to check my predictions. Apparently two months ago I said third or fifth.
Europe League spot.
Europe League spot.
He's just suggesting that our current position is far, far worse than 99% of people would have predicted. Which is true. The only people that would have predicted us to fall from Champions to 7th with Moyes at the helm would be the same people that felt that the League was corrupt and that Fergie handed brown paper bags to refs in every game to keep us winning League titles.
Fergie was a great manager, but we could have finished 17 points lower last season and still made the top 4. No player or manager is worth 17 points to a club in a League season over a competent alternative. The fact that United, Chelsea and City were all roughly joint favourites for the title at the start of the campaign says it all. Likewise the fact that you'd have got stupid odds for a 5th or below finish.
Nah, they are idiots and cnuts.
I'll sign in too.Fergie isn't worth 17 points (I'll actually would have expected with Mourinho at-least 85 points this season) but Moyes is worth a few negative points. PhaseOfPlay is becoming my personal hero, he said that the wrong manager could get around 45% less points than the right one. Another post which was laughed here.
I said 7th in December. Not bad
I said 3rd at the beginning of the season and that was me being a bit harsh.
I think we'll finish where we are - 7th.
I think we'll finish where we are - 7th.
God knows now. We're closer to 16th place than we are to 1st place. I want to believe there is still a chance of top four but I'm expecting us to finish 7th or 8th. Everyone just assumes, myself included, we're going to put some sort of run together but after watching us against Fulham that idea has been shattered. If we cannot beat Fulham then I'm not sure who we can beat between now and the end of the season. They have given every team in the bottom half the perfect game plan against us: stick your men in the box to deal with crosses and play on the counter. Combine that with the fact that most top half teams will have a go because we've been dire, it's a bleak picture.
One thing this thread shows is how little importance and value a lot of you placed in SAF, and believed football results are all about having 'great players'.
Players are humans, they are brittle, SAF was like Jose, able to overperform a set of players.
But as I said before there is a very transparent line between what makes an average player and a great one. If a player can be great under a better manager then they must have that capability existing within them. Hence players like Luiz, Cahill etc were always capable of playing to this higher level, but they werent playing to it under other managers. Likewise we know what Uniteds players are capable of, but they are not showing this currently.
Players are humans, they are brittle, SAF was like Jose, able to overperform a set of players.
But as I said before there is a very transparent line between what makes an average player and a great one. If a player can be great under a better manager then they must have that capability existing within them. Hence players like Luiz, Cahill etc were always capable of playing to this higher level, but they werent playing to it under other managers. Likewise we know what Uniteds players are capable of, but they are not showing this currently.