Sneijder wasn't sighted in the Final.
If people are going to say Messi had a bum tournament when it counted, then same too with Sneijder.
If people are going to say Messi had a bum tournament when it counted, then same too with Sneijder.
Who do you think deserves Fifa player of the year?
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Yep 5 goals and leading your team to the World Cup final is having a a bum tourney. I guess he was on par with Messi and Rooney then.
This thread is definitely one of the weirdest ones on the caf in a long time. It's like people flushed out their brains with the world cup.
Messi is easily the best player in the world. It may be argued that someone like sneijder should win it because of his achievements, but really - xavi better, messi being shown up? It's shit I would expect from idiots who only ever watch the world cup.
Why would people even mention iniesta as well, he's been out most of the season.
Messi is easily the best player in the world. It may be argued that someone like sneijder should win it because of his achievements, but really - xavi better, messi being shown up? It's shit I would expect from idiots who only ever watch the world cup.
Why would people even mention iniesta as well, he's been out most of the season.
Yeah people saying Iniesta should win it are out of their minds, fair play and nice finish to win the world cup but come on
TBH, I thought Robben was more important to them early on and two of his goals were deflections. Yes, the shot is on target, but what gives the keeper no chance is the deflection.
I'm not arguing he isn't a contender, but I think the overall rating of his WC performance is getting a bit flattering, particularly when Messi gets viciously shot down for not scoring. He was instrumental in making Argentina look decent despite having Maxi Rodriguez charged with pulling the strings in midfield, and an atrocious back 5. Messi wasn't shown up by Germany, Maradona was.
This is true. In fact Iniesta winning it this time round would be like Zidane winning it in 1998.
Aye it was an over-confident performance characterised by a number of wasteful shots from 40-50 yards. Yet had Robben put away that chance (from a Sneijder through-ball), people would have viewed his performance in a far different manner.
If you look at the past few years. Kaka won it based on a handful of CL games, Cannavaro won it based on a handful of WC games. So the answer to your question is YES, a handful of big performances in a handful of huge games makes all the difference.
I'm just applying the logic used to elect WPOTY in a WC year.On that basis Xavi has done better your Messi.
Messi has a chance obviously but Xavi is ahead of him I think
Some years the "best player" and the "came out on top in the matches that everyone wanted to win" are the same player. Messi last year. Ronaldo the season before.
This year it's different so the voters (and people in this thread) pause to think.
Best player for most of the season (not head and shoulders, or in a class of his own - just best) was Messi.
Throw in "came out on top" and you're looking at Sneidjer (a treble + a WC final) and a key player in game after game for club and country - imagine if a United player had done that. Would anyone doubt his worthiness?
Take a different tack and look at the bloke who makes two of the world's top teams tick and has done for a while. Then add that he's the kind of player who seldom gets acknowledgement for individual awards and it's a perfect time for all the football commentators who believe in the "it's 11 men" philosophy to acknowledge Xavi.
Player of the Year doesn't necessarily mean best individual.
This year it's different so the voters (and people in this thread) pause to think.
Best player for most of the season (not head and shoulders, or in a class of his own - just best) was Messi.
Throw in "came out on top" and you're looking at Sneidjer (a treble + a WC final) and a key player in game after game for club and country - imagine if a United player had done that. Would anyone doubt his worthiness?
Take a different tack and look at the bloke who makes two of the world's top teams tick and has done for a while. Then add that he's the kind of player who seldom gets acknowledgement for individual awards and it's a perfect time for all the football commentators who believe in the "it's 11 men" philosophy to acknowledge Xavi.
Player of the Year doesn't necessarily mean best individual.
Spot on! This man deserves an award for such a great post.
Fair enough but i can't agree, Messi has proven his adaptability. He was the only player creating anything for Argentina but he was starved of the ball when it mattered.
He can play wide or through the middle, on the left or right, behind a striker or as a main striker. It's not a question really, hes shown it over the years.
And i understand your point about how the vote works, but frankly i dont care. This thread is about who people think deserves it, not who they think will win based on how the votes are made.
I dont think anyone was outstanding enough this season to make the majority of the voters decide they were more deserving than Messi. He still did things for the majority of the season that no other player did.
The whole, he bottled it thing doesnt wash, no team or one player will lead his team to glory in every competition every season. If Messi doesnt win everything it is looked at as if he "bottled" it.
He didnt perform in some matches to the standards he had set but for the majority of the season his standards were that much higher than everyone elses he's still the best around hands down bar none, period.
Agreed except it's a girl.
And yes this jojojojojojojojojojo lady did indeed make an excellent post on the subject. Good girl.
You can be the best player in the world and not win WPOTY. It's about who's been the most influential in a season it's not who is the best player in the world in that year.
Seriously surprised by the complete lack of mention for Robben in this thread, he has to be up there (minimum top 5)... against both Inter and Spain in the the major finals he played in, he was the standout player on the losing teams. Yes he may not have scored the goals, but he wasn't far off and he was man-marked immensely.
Anyway my personal top four would be Sneijder, Robben, Messi and Xavi .. with Forlan/Villa coming into the top five.
Ronaldo and Rooney despite fantastic personal seasons didn't win their clubs or countries anything and their poor performances at the World Cup rule them out altogether in my opinion.
The top four I mentioned had great seasons when you take into the balance of Club and International football, but getting it down to one player is extremely hard.
I think it'd be nice to recognize Xavi's efforts over the past few years which has culminated in winning a world cup, but I wouldn't mind any of my top four winning. I don't like players winning twice in a row unless they've been hugely successful in terms of trophies and for that reason I'd have Messi outside the top spot.
Anyway my personal top four would be Sneijder, Robben, Messi and Xavi .. with Forlan/Villa coming into the top five.
Ronaldo and Rooney despite fantastic personal seasons didn't win their clubs or countries anything and their poor performances at the World Cup rule them out altogether in my opinion.
The top four I mentioned had great seasons when you take into the balance of Club and International football, but getting it down to one player is extremely hard.
I think it'd be nice to recognize Xavi's efforts over the past few years which has culminated in winning a world cup, but I wouldn't mind any of my top four winning. I don't like players winning twice in a row unless they've been hugely successful in terms of trophies and for that reason I'd have Messi outside the top spot.
No i agree, but i still dont think anyone stood out enough for everyone to vote for them.
We'll see, i expect Messi to win it but i wont be surprised or grudge Sniejder, Forlan or Xavi. Even when i think overall they werent as good.
Iniesta had a very average season and a decent world cup. He shouldnt be in with a chance.
Interesting FV, somehow, I doubt you'd agree with the following:
Fair enough but i can't agree, Ronaldo has proven his adaptability. He was the only player creating anything for Portugal but he was starved of the ball when it mattered.
He can play wide or through the middle, on the left or right, behind a striker or as a main striker. It's not a question really, hes shown it over the years.
No one is expecting any player to lead his team to win everything, but the point most people are making is that - Sneijder did lead his team to win most things (and make the WC final).
Messi failed in the two biggest tournaments he played in, his was anonymous both times against Inter and again against Germany. You can go on and on about his La Liga exploits, but do you seriously think Ruud scoring 44 goals in a season to win the Premier League wasn't good enough, yet when Messi scores only 3 more to win La Liga, that makes him good enough to win?
Ruud didn't have a big enough global reputation, unfortunately. Messi has been a fanboi sensation since age 18. Plus, Real and Barca players have bigger global reputations than English club players. Had Ruud been playing for Real in 2003 and 2004, he'd probably have won an award or two.
So true...
It wouldn't surprise me one little bit if Messi did win it this year, it'd be like Zidane winning it in 2003.
Messi had a much better 2010, to date, than Zidane had a 2003.
Then in 2004, Ronaldhino won the FIFA award based on a hype campaign and still unsure how Shevchenko won the Ballon d'Or. Ukraine was in the Euros and I don't recall Milan winning anything that calendar year. I think Deco was runnerup and I believe Ronaldhino was a finalist. Shame United flamed out in the CL - certainly cost the likes of Ruud, Scholes, etc., votes while vaulting Deco.
I know you dislike Henry, but he certainly deserved an award in 2003 and/or 2004.
Then in 2004, Ronaldhino won the FIFA award based on a hype campaign and still unsure how Shevchenko won the Ballon d'Or. Ukraine was in the Euros and I don't recall Milan winning anything that calendar year. I think Deco was runnerup and I believe Ronaldhino was a finalist. Shame United flamed out in the CL - certainly cost the likes of Ruud, Scholes, etc., votes while vaulting Deco.
I know you dislike Henry, but he certainly deserved an award in 2003 and/or 2004.
You talk about United flamed out of the CL, but didn't Arsenal flame out of the CL year after year until 2006?
This is true, but if Ronaldhino (Barca not in CL at all 2003/2004) and Shevchenko (Milan humiliated by Deportivo in QF) can win an award, then Henry dominating the Premiership in 2003/04 was just as worthy. At least Milan won their domestic league in 2004 where as Barca did not.
It's simply that the Premiership was often overlooked by voters as La Liga and Serie A did a bigger marketing/promoting job of their stars. Would Ronaldhino have won the FIFA award in 2004 if he had joined Chelsea or United? I have my doubts.
Ruud deserved it just as much in 02/03 in that case.
Anyway, the point however, remains that PL clubs underperformed in the CL in the early 00s.
normally it goes to WC and CL winners
i suppose sneijder is closest to that...
i think xavi would be a worthy winner
other players with a shout should be robben, messi, ronaldo, maicon
iniesta has been injured for most of the season so surely a very good world cup is not enough
i suppose sneijder is closest to that...
i think xavi would be a worthy winner
other players with a shout should be robben, messi, ronaldo, maicon
iniesta has been injured for most of the season so surely a very good world cup is not enough
Ruud and Scholes were great arguments and had United made the CL final, who knows how the voting would have played out. Nedved was probably the best player on the planet that year (2003) followed by Henry (2004) though the latter has an argument for being the best in 2003 as well.
As you already pointed out, I don't like Henry, so I'm definitely glad he has never won the award. But if the award wasn't as La Liga/Serie A-centric back then, I guess Ruud, Scholes, Henry, Beckham, Keane all had pretty valid claims during individual seasons in the late 90s or early 00s.
We won everything in 99 and still none of our players won the award.
As you already pointed out, I don't like Henry, so I'm definitely glad he has never won the award. But if the award wasn't as La Liga/Serie A-centric back then, I guess Ruud, Scholes, Henry, Beckham, Keane all had pretty valid claims during individual seasons in the late 90s or early 00s.
We won everything in 99 and still none of our players won the award.
But who really stood out in 1999? United didn't have that one galvanizing player like Rivaldo was for Barcelona that year. It was a collective effort, probably the most collective effort I've witnessed from a CL winning side in my 15 years of watching European football. Beckham might have been the star of the side but his contributions certainly weren't much higher than Cole, Yorke, Keane, Irwin, Schmeichel, Stam, etc. Giggs had a so-so year, Butt and Scholes shared the midfield role next to Keane. Rivaldo was sensational that year - so much SAF wanted to sign him that summer after the treble.
Messi or Sneijder
I thought Beckham should have won it.
Rivaldo & Barca crashed out of the CL in the group stage, if that was good enough, surely Ruud in 02/03 was more than good enough.
You're also forgetting Barca players were more universally known and La Liga was a more watched league than the Premiership then, and had the bigger names (just behind Serie A). Barca did win La Liga that year.
I don't agree on Beckham winning it. Not above Rivaldo. And this is probably why Messi will win it again this year. He had a fantastic overall calendar year, or will, and even though Sneijder did great in Serie A and CL, and the likes of Villa, Xavi, Drogba, Ronaldo, et al had great years, the one player still looms over others. Like Rivaldo did in 1999 and Zidane in 2003. That's my guess. Voters often pick the big names.
Well, we'll just agree to disagree.
Personally I've no problems with the voting being very much weighed towards the CL & WC (if it's consistent), hence, if Xavi or Sneijder win it, good for them.
But if Messi wins it, it can only be put down to the award being La Liga-centric and idiotic voting.
Beckham's contribution all season was the highest in that side that year. That is why he got nominated for WPOTY. However his lack of natural flair was his undoing. Rivaldo just did the same things with so much more flair, he simply had to bag the award. That is why I can't see a Sneijder beating a Messi to such a gong.
I know you're incapable of seperating team performances from individual performances, but have a look at those group stages. Essentially the three strongest teams in Europe drawn in the same group (second phase mind) and a whisker between the three of them after the six matches. What MrMarcello says is bang on - have a look at the highlights of your 3-3 draw in the Nou Camp to illustrate how much Rivaldo stood out in that Barcelona team. Throw in La Liga title (when it was the strongest in Europe) and player of the tournament as Brazil won the Copa America (when it too was a proper competition), and it was a runaway victory in the end-of-year awards.
Obviously United were comfortable winners for the team of the year and manager of the year gongs.
Debatable. I could point out Yorke's goals and assists and argue he had a higher percentage of involvement in United's scoring success. Same with Andy Cole. Beckham had a great year but in my view not one player stood out above others. Beckham got his votes because he was the more famous of all United players. That simple. Great season he had nonetheless.
Didn't beckham have a ridiculous amount of assists that season?
I agree with this and I'd love to see Diego given it. He was as instrumental in Atletico winning the UEFA cup as he was getting Uruguay to the semis
Never let facts get in the way of a good argument, there was only 1 group stage in the CL 98/99.
Also, Juve, having made 3 consecutive CL finals in the 3 seasons leading up t 98/99 might have something to say about being one of the best 3 teams in Europe.
1998-1999 Premiership Top Performers
According to that website, which it's accuracy I can't validate, he was one behind Yorke for the club lead. Not sure about cup totals.
This site Ryan Giggs - Top EPL Assists Maker this decade! claims he had 22 that season but there is no link to where the data came from and the poster doesn't validate its accuracy (scroll to post 17).
True enough, but it's an irrelevant point to the argument.
That team was in its dying embers - still a force to be reckoned with, but 6th in Serie A that season tells its own story.
Interesting FV, somehow, I doubt you'd agree with the following:
Fair enough but i can't agree, Ronaldo has proven his adaptability. He was the only player creating anything for Portugal but he was starved of the ball when it mattered.
He can play wide or through the middle, on the left or right, behind a striker or as a main striker. It's not a question really, hes shown it over the years.
No one is expecting any player to lead his team to win everything, but the point most people are making is that - Sneijder did lead his team to win most things (and make the WC final).
Messi failed in the two biggest tournaments he played in, his was anonymous both times against Inter and again against Germany. You can go on and on about his La Liga exploits, but do you seriously think Ruud scoring 44 goals in a season to win the Premier League wasn't good enough, yet when Messi scores only 3 more to win La Liga, that makes him good enough to win?
Ruud was all about goals, Messi is about so much more, from a player who is not an actual striker he scored that many goals. Has Ruud ever scored from outside the box? he was a master of penalty box finishing, Messi is a master of so much more and his performances, not just his goals have been sensational this season.
Like Gio says you cannot seperate individual from team performances. THe team is the most important, why else have a CL a World Cup to decide which Team is the best but that does not mean they have the best players or the best individual player.
THese awards do tend to work that way but my main point is that nobody was actually better than Messi so why would they deserve the award. Messi would easily swap winning wpoty for a world cup winners medal, as would any player.
You say Messi bottled it or whatever but then so did the whole barca team in the CL, or is it simply that Inter were a better team...
Or did they really have superior players?