Who here hopes United get spanked tonight?

If that is the logic behind it then why not hope for a hammering by West Ham? As opposed to a game which means something. What are you afraid of? That Moyes might be kept on because he beat Olympiacos. Nothing that happens tonight will have a bearing on Moyes, it will however have a bearing on how many trophies you win this season and when your season finishes.

I get the feeling I want United to qualify more than half the fans do.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
If that is the logic behind it then why not hope for a hammering by West Ham? As opposed to a game which means something. What are you afraid of? That Moyes might be kept on because he beat Olympiacos. Nothing that happens tonight will have a bearing on Moyes, it will however have a bearing on how many trophies you win this season and when your season finishes.

I get the feeling I want United to qualify more than half the fans do.
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If you read the OP, this thread was originally about a league fixture.

It's been traduced now, to refer to the CL fixture but I'm sure 99.9% of United fans would rather stay in a cup competition than be knocked out of it.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
If that is the logic behind it then why not hope for a hammering by West Ham? As opposed to a game which means something. What are you afraid of? That Moyes might be kept on because he beat Olympiacos. Nothing that happens tonight will have a bearing on Moyes, it will however have a bearing on how many trophies you win this season and when your season finishes.

I get the feeling I want United to qualify more than half the fans do.
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It's simple really. Plenty of fans think Moyes has us on an irreversible (under him) downward trajectory. We think we need someone else in charge. If losing the next game meant he'd be gone then that would be a good thing for Manchester United Football Club and therefore the hypothetical question, would you like us to get spanked tonight is answered in the affirmative in this hypothetical scenario. The reality is that no real United fan will be cheering on Olympiakos tonight and we all cling to the hope that our fortunes can be turned around and that Moyes proves us all wrong and we win the league within 2 or 3 years. Deep down, we don't think that's possible though and it hurts.
 
Sarni said:
I'm torn. A part of me says he's here to stay for next 5 years, the other part says he'll go if we don't improve now.

If he stays beyond this season then he can be sure that he'll be here until 2019 like his contract states though. Not a chance of him ever getting sacked if now isn't the time.
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What makes you think that? As bad as this season has been, the legitimate(?) excuse that Moyes has is that he didn't get the chance to shape the team the way he wants. If he is backed in the summer transfer window and we are still producing the same performances and results next season, then I think the pressure will be even greater on him than it is now.

I think the most likely scenario is him getting the sack either before the January transfer window of 2015 or right after next season.
 
RustyS said:
What makes you think that? As bad as this season has been, the legitimate(?) excuse that Moyes has is that he didn't get the chance to shape the team the way he wants. If he is backed in the summer transfer window and we are still producing the same performances and results next season, then I think the pressure will be even greater on him than it is now.

I think the most likely scenario is him getting the sack either before the January transfer window of 2015 or right after next season.
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Well, he signed a lot of players so it is natural to take some time in order for them to get integrated into the first team. When a few players come and a few other left, it takes some time for the team to play well.

This will be the excuse for next season, be sure about it.
 
Yeah I also disagree with Sarni. Not getting sacked now / this summer doesnt mean he has a free pass, at the start of the season I was saying he should be judged on his second season, if the owners share that logic then there is every chance of him being sacked at some stage next season, either half way through or at the end of it.
 
I want us to qualify, but if we lose he simply has to go. Tomorrow morning would have to see him sacked.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
If that is the logic behind it then why not hope for a hammering by West Ham? As opposed to a game which means something. What are you afraid of? That Moyes might be kept on because he beat Olympiacos. Nothing that happens tonight will have a bearing on Moyes, it will however have a bearing on how many trophies you win this season and when your season finishes.

I get the feeling I want United to qualify more than half the fans do.
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I think that all the fans want United to qualify tonight. However, win tonight but get eleminated versus getting humiliated in OT by Olybiacos (which may result on Moyes getting sacked or the pressure on him growing) is something else.
 
Just to flip this on it's head a bit.

In the unlikely event we do knock Olympiakos out tonight then follow it up with 6 points from our next two league games, how many of ye would be open to the possibility that this is the start of a brave new dawn under David Moyes?

Against my better judgement, I'm sure I would be able to muster up some enthusiasm in that scenario. Anyone else?
 
Been stung too many times this season already, Ive not been baying for his blood but itll take more than three back to back wins to restore confidence. Looking at the way you have phrased that, "open to the possibility that this is the start of a brave new dawn," yes, open to the possibility, but pretty damn skeptical.
 
If we play well rather than scrape a few 1-0s, not overly convincingly, then perhaps.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Just to flip this on it's head a bit.

In the unlikely event we do knock Olympiakos out tonight then follow it up with 6 points from our next two league games, how many of ye would be open to the possibility that this is the start of a brave new dawn under David Moyes?

Against my better judgement, I'm sure I would be able to muster up some enthusiasm in that scenario. Anyone else?
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My main issue with Moyes at the moment is the apparent total lack of progression in a tactical sense; there's no clear gameplan defining our play in the same way as for most other successful teams (and Liverpool of this season). Frankly, I don't see a scenario where we beat City without serious progress in that regard, so I may feel a little bit better about the situation we're in; we're not suddenly going to construct a way to play excellent attacking football in time to beat City and them immediately scrap it for the rest of the season. So basically yes, I'd be a bit more enthusiastic, but it would be contingent on evidence of continued progress.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Just to flip this on it's head a bit.

In the unlikely event we do knock Olympiakos out tonight then follow it up with 6 points from our next two league games, how many of ye would be open to the possibility that this is the start of a brave new dawn under David Moyes?

Against my better judgement, I'm sure I would be able to muster up some enthusiasm in that scenario. Anyone else?
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Winning three games in a row, the first with a big margin, the second away to West Ham (not easy), and the third the derby against City would be a great run. Something like that is bound to give us momentum. I think Moyes will have a lot of people who are skeptical about him on his side if that happens.

I class myself as someone who hopes he succeeds although all the signs are making me expect that he will fail. I got really excited over the decent showing against Crystal Palace so you can imagine my excitement if we pull off a run like that. I hope it happens.
 
Adebesi said:
Been stung too many times this season already, Ive not been baying for his blood but itll take more than three back to back wins to restore confidence. Looking at the way you have phrased that, "open to the possibility that this is the start of a brave new dawn," yes, open to the possibility, but pretty damn skeptical.
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Me too. Although it's easy to say that now. I just know I'll lose all sense of logic and reason in the events described above. Especially after beating the berties. I'll be giddy as a giddy thing. It's a curse.
 
Revan said:
Well, he signed a lot of players so it is natural to take some time in order for them to get integrated into the first team. When a few players come and a few other left, it takes some time for the team to play well.

This will be the excuse for next season, be sure about it.
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Exactly and then it'll be 'these players aren't playing for him either, he deserves second shot'.
 
To be fair it would be indicative of something. Turning this tie around this evening will be an achievement in itself. To then build on that with a win against West Ham would count as one of the highlights of 2014, so little else is there to smile about. Add beating City into the mix and we would have our best run of games of the entire season, probably. So yes, its easy to be dismissive but if we did it we'd have every right to be giddy. Especially if Chelsea win their next few games as well.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Just to flip this on it's head a bit.

In the unlikely event we do knock Olympiakos out tonight then follow it up with 6 points from our next two league games, how many of ye would be open to the possibility that this is the start of a brave new dawn under David Moyes?

Against my better judgement, I'm sure I would be able to muster up some enthusiasm in that scenario. Anyone else?
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No, anything short of CL qualification won't cut it. A handful of results now will not change a season of disaster.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Against my better judgement, I'm sure I would be able to muster up some enthusiasm in that scenario. Anyone else?
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Yup. I've said all along - I want Moyes to do well. I like having a dour Scottish manager, I like that he's not cool. I like the idea of having a manager who will build a team to fight rather than pony around like Arsenal, and who will stick around for 10 years rather than disappear after 3.

More than that though, I want a manager that can win. Which is where we fall out, me and Dave.
 
Sarni said:
I would like us to go through to be fair but if going out today means that we'll get rid of Moyes then it might actually be not all that bad.
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if someone said it meant moyes gone and klopp guaranteed in at the end of the season i might bite. I'd be far less thrilled with Van Gaal although I know lots of people have different opinions there
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Just to flip this on it's head a bit.

In the unlikely event we do knock Olympiakos out tonight then follow it up with 6 points from our next two league games, how many of ye would be open to the possibility that this is the start of a brave new dawn under David Moyes?

Against my better judgement, I'm sure I would be able to muster up some enthusiasm in that scenario. Anyone else?
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If that happens, I would probably go from Moyes Out Now! to Moyes Out Now?
 
Cal? said:
No, anything short of CL qualification won't cut it. A handful of results now will not change a season of disaster.
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Have to agree. He is nowhere near the best option we could have to take the team forward, even if there were signs he'll begin to do a semi-respectable job.
 
Pink Moon said:
You're just assuming he'll be as bad next year. Maybe with another full window under his belt and a far better idea of what is required he may just turn it around? If he manages to get rid of the duds—of which there are plenty—then he's already got a better chance.
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As I said previously a successful season is one where he challenges for the title.

Can you give me any examples of a manager in any League coming into a title winning (or challenging) team, dragging them down to 7th position and then the following season have them challenging again? I just can't see it. If Moyes can't get Rooney, Mata, RVP, Carrick, Vidic, Rafael etc performing to their capabilities what will change with 2-3 signings?

I'm assuming it'll be as bad next year because that's what all the evidence suggests. We are losing irrespective of line-up, irrespective of confidence and almost irrespective of the quality of the opposition.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Just to flip this on it's head a bit.

In the unlikely event we do knock Olympiakos out tonight then follow it up with 6 points from our next two league games, how many of ye would be open to the possibility that this is the start of a brave new dawn under David Moyes?

Against my better judgement, I'm sure I would be able to muster up some enthusiasm in that scenario. Anyone else?
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Nah, too many false dawns. 2 or 3 wins in succession won't change the fact that I simply don't believe he's cut out for the job.
 
finneh said:
As I said previously a successful season is one where he challenges for the title.

Can you give me any examples of a manager in any League coming into a title winning (or challenging) team, dragging them down to 7th position and then the following season have them challenging again? I just can't see it. If Moyes can't get Rooney, Mata, RVP, Carrick, Vidic, Rafael etc performing to their capabilities what will change with 2-3 signings?

I'm assuming it'll be as bad next year because that's what all the evidence suggests. We are losing irrespective of line-up, irrespective of confidence and almost irrespective of the quality of the opposition.
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Benitez managed that at Treble Inter, but he was sacked in December.
 
Cal? said:
Benitez managed that at Treble Inter, but he was sacked in December.
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I mean a manager who has come back from such depths of utter, abject failure? I can't think of a single manager in my lifetime who has been so horrendously bad for a season, but has then turned it around to be a quality manager, after 5-6 new signings.
 
finneh said:
I mean a manager who has come back from such depths of utter, abject failure? I can't think of a single manager in my lifetime who has been so horrendously bad for a season, but has then turned it around to be a quality manager, after 5-6 new signings.
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That's what I've been saying all along, he's proven beyond reasonable doubt that he's out of his depth as United manager, the sooner we get rid the better for all concerned.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Just to flip this on it's head a bit.

In the unlikely event we do knock Olympiakos out tonight then follow it up with 6 points from our next two league games, how many of ye would be open to the possibility that this is the start of a brave new dawn under David Moyes?

Against my better judgement, I'm sure I would be able to muster up some enthusiasm in that scenario. Anyone else?
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A good run from here to the end of the season and he's earned himself a stay of execution. Although I hope that won't happen (short of actually winning the CL), because I'm fully convinced he's the wrong man for Manchester United, and we can never aspire to greatness under his management.
 
I don't see what everyones on about regarding tonights game. We all know what's going to happen:

We will win tonight (whether its by enough to see us through is the real mystery) however whatever joy and optimism we have from tonight will be wiped out this weekend when we find a way to lose to West Ham. It's a very noticeable pattern under Moyes to expect anything less. 1 small step forward, 3 giant steps back.
 
Everyone in the matchday thread worried that United going through would help Moyes can feck right off.
How can you not wholeheartedly want United to progress in the CL against Olympiakos?
If Moyes will be sacked it will be in the summer. Everyone knows we are not going to win the CL. And the league is now meaningless. So to get your mind twisted so much that you're not sure if United beating Olympiakos was a good thing takes some doing.
If you want Moyes gone then you'll probably get your wish eventually. But personally I love United in the European Cup and want us to squeeze more matches out of this campaign. I feel sorry for any United fan who has lost their way so much that they can't think the same.
 
Anybody who agreed with the sentiment of this thread has allowed their obsession with the poilitics / soap opera of the season to make them forget what the whole point of football is. If you weren't thrilled by last night's match, then I really don't know why you support the club or even watch the sport.
 
For those hoping to see us get battered, there's always West Ham to put your support behind. So don't give up.
 
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charleysurf said:
Everyone in the matchday thread worried that United going through would help Moyes can feck right off.
How can you not wholeheartedly want United to progress in the CL against Olympiakos?
If Moyes will be sacked it will be in the summer. Everyone knows we are not going to win the CL. And the league is now meaningless. So to get your mind twisted so much that you're not sure if United beating Olympiakos was a good thing takes some doing.
If you want Moyes gone then you'll probably get your wish eventually. But personally I love United in the European Cup and want us to squeeze more matches out of this campaign. I feel sorry for any United fan who has lost their way so much that they can't think the same.
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Feel sorry for yourself who's lack of understanding of the human psyche cant get into his head how much certain ppl flip-flop from one idea/opinion to the opposite
 
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