Who is going to be the Next Prime Minister of the UK? | Be your stubborn best

Barca84 said:
3 points raised:

So was the referendum. You should have learned at least that.

I didn't ask why you were hysterical.

Some don't view the world in black and white.

Conclusion - Get your blood pressure checked.
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The referendum was not supposed to be a protest vote - it was to decide the future of the UK, unfortunately some people decided to use it as a protest vote and completely missed the point while doing irreperable damage to the country whilst being totally misinformed. But if the Brits are now happy in the country which now has an economy in downfall and still a long way from the bottom and a divisive society splitting into two camps , nothing much else changing, regarding immigration ,"sovereignty", presume someone at some point will look back on this fiasco and say it was all worthwhile .

I still don't get your point about being hysterical - couldn't be calmer
 
Paul the Wolf said:
The referendum was not supposed to be a protest vote - it was to decide the future of the UK, unfortunately some people decided to use it as a protest vote and completely missed the point while doing irreperable damage to the country whilst being totally misinformed. But if the Brits are now happy in the country which now has an economy in downfall and still a long way from the bottom and a divisive society splitting into two camps , nothing much else changing, regarding immigration ,"sovereignty", presume someone at some point will look back on this fiasco and say it was all worthwhile .

I still don't get your point about being hysterical - couldn't be calmer
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What the ref was/was not supposed to be is not the point. Protest votes produce outcomes like any other votes and your dismissal of the FN is simply wrong. They are now a mainstream party and are on the rise. Are you new to France? If you think Le Pen is going away you should go and take a look at the trajectory of their popularity. They would have won 2 French regionals last year (as their vote tripled from 2010) if it hadn't been for tactical socialist voting. Still - this is all for another thread although the rise of the right in France and throughout Europe is relevant to current events in the UK.

I find it frankly odd that you think that the UKs divided society is some sort of by product of the referendum. The referendum was an expression of that division ie it existed before and has only been exposed by the result. The fact that you have been unaware of the divisions in this society could explain your exasperation at the result?

You don't sound calm - you sound enraged. Are you being hit financially? That normally gets people a bit passionate.
 
Smores said:
I don't understand that logic, the question of what kind of relationship we want with the EU is as equally important as whether we stayed in or not.

Voters didn't get any kind of information on what would happen if we left during the referendum. It should be be up to the parties to now lay out their chosen plan and then a GE will decide the mandate on one of the biggest issues of our generation.

How can someone who nobody knew would be leading the country decide on the path we take?
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The conservatives won an overall majority just over a year ago. Each MP won their respective seats and two thirds of them support May. Cameron has gone because of the single issue of the EU referendum. But the government were elected on a whole manifesto which it still has to deliver on. Theresa May is a senior member of the cabinet and a very seasoned politician. In my view she was the only game in town to do the job at hand.

May in herself, does not need a GE mandate to start the negotiations regarding Brexit. Once she has started that and they are in full swing then by all means go to the country to satisfy the hand-wringers.
 
Barca84 said:
What the ref was/was not supposed to be is not the point. Protest votes produce outcomes like any other votes and your dismissal of the FN is simply wrong. They are now a mainstream party and are on the rise. Are you new to France? If you think Le Pen is going away you should go and take a look at the trajectory of their popularity. They would have won 2 French regionals last year (as their vote tripled from 2010) if it hadn't been for tactical socialist voting. Still - this is all for another thread although the rise of the right in France and throughout Europe is relevant to current events in the UK.

I find it frankly odd that you think that the UKs divided society is some sort of by product of the referendum. The referendum was an expression of that division ie it existed before and has only been exposed by the result. The fact that you have been unaware of the divisions in this society could explain your exasperation at the result?

You don't sound calm - you sound enraged. Are you being hit financially? That normally gets people a bit passionate.
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All wrong I'm afraid.
No I'm not new to France , have lived here 9 years , my wife is French, my children and grandchildren have dual nationaility-have spent a lot of my life in France over the past 40 odd years and also around Europe, I have even dealt with the ministers in the French government directly .
Le Pen gained a popular vote due to the immigrant/terrorist threat issue, but will not get close to the presidency, her economic policies are even worse than Brexit and that's saying something.

Yes the referendum has exposed divisions that have existed before, the same divisions since time im memoriam, same as they were back in the 50s/60s/70s/80s etc, this time the referendum has seemingly given some justification to people to openly display their hate, racism and xenophobia

No I'm not being hit financially - I am paid in Euros and having not trusted the British people to have the sense vote in the right way I protected myself before Brexit and have saved myself a lot of money.

As I have said countless times I have no agenda on this, just an ex-Brit looking at the sorry state of my country of birth - and sad at the stupidity -not enraged.
 
I nearly posted about Leadsom barely having enough MP support to go forward in the contest & then thought well she has to really & then very briefly thought that she might not make it through to September because of this. And if she had done, that it would (if she won - definitely with a chance to do so) take the Conservatives to a similar place that Labour find themselves in, Leader voted into place against the will of the MPs - possibility of Party split.

I was pondering how they would fiddle the infinitely more preferable Theresa May win.

But as I said before, I am quite amused by tentative loony conspiracy theorizing of stuff like this.

Wasn't expecting it quite this quick, they is ruthless bastards, innit.
 
Yeah there was a good article in the Guardian about that yesterday. Whatever splits there are in the Tory party, you have to admire how they are all always willing to put it to one side to rally around the one thing that unites them all, which is the desire for power.

Whereas it seems like Labour (or a lot of them) would rather be ideologically pure in opposition than compromised in power.
 
Stanley Road said:
And why do you think that is?

I'm all for a protest vote
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It shouldn't have been used as a protest vote against the Tories or Cameron or the British government or whatever - there are other elections for that

The referendum vote was a once in a (or several) generation(s) vote for what's good for the country as a whole and was vitally important to get it right.
If you want to reform the EU , do it from the inside, not from the outside , and elect the right MEPs so that the Uk have a proper say, instead of the UKIP fools that were voted in and didn't turn up half the time and had their own agenda anyway.
 
Yeah the thing about a protest vote is you need to make sure the thing you are kicking when you vote a certain way is the same as the thing you are protesting about. Which in this case I am not at all convinced they are.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
It shouldn't have been used as a protest vote against the Tories or Cameron or the British government or whatever - there are other elections for that
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People are pissed off now tho not in 2020. If you annoy people enough they will revolt at any chance they get, it's human nature. So useless and out of touch with people the Tory party, they are actually surprised at the result. How mental is that?
 
Barca84 said:
What the ref was/was not supposed to be is not the point. Protest votes produce outcomes like any other votes and your dismissal of the FN is simply wrong. They are now a mainstream party and are on the rise. Are you new to France? If you think Le Pen is going away you should go and take a look at the trajectory of their popularity. They would have won 2 French regionals last year (as their vote tripled from 2010) if it hadn't been for tactical socialist voting. Still - this is all for another thread although the rise of the right in France and throughout Europe is relevant to current events in the UK.

I find it frankly odd that you think that the UKs divided society is some sort of by product of the referendum. The referendum was an expression of that division ie it existed before and has only been exposed by the result. The fact that you have been unaware of the divisions in this society could explain your exasperation at the result?

You don't sound calm - you sound enraged. Are you being hit financially? That normally gets people a bit passionate.
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You don't decide on a country's future by protest voting. It is just an indicator of how dissatisfied people are, not a solution for future. The referendum in itself was stupid to break down a complex issue with far reaching consequences into a yes/no scenario...and so any results from it are so tainted. I think it is now clear to anyone irrespective of how they voted that their core concerns (immigration, cost etc) would not improve even after the exit, making it a ineffectual solution.
 
Stanley Road said:
People are pissed off now tho not in 2020. If you annoy people enough they will revolt at any chance they get, it's human nature. So useless and out of touch with people the Tory party, they are actually surprised at the result. How mental is that?
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But there was a general election only last year, why vote in the Tories then
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
You don't decide on a country's future by protest voting. It is just an indicator of how dissatisfied people are, not a solution for future. The referendum in itself was stupid to break down a complex issue with far reaching consequences into a yes/no scenario...and so any results from it are so tainted. I think it is now clear to anyone irrespective of how they voted that their core concerns (immigration, cost etc) would not improve even after the exit, making it a ineffectual solution.
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I'm not saying whether you do or you don't. But you can't simply dismiss a protest vote as something that doesn't provide a "solution for the future". It's common sense that a protest vote that achieves it's purpose ie to effect change can also instigate a path to a solution. And the referendum vote doesn't entirely fit the classic protest vote of voting simply in opposition of the mainstream in order to express dissatisfaction. It's a valid vote seeking a specific outcome and in this case exit from the EU. And no it isn't "clear to anyone" how things are going to pan out re their core concerns.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
But there was a general election only last year, why vote in the Tories then
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Only 36.9% of the country voted Tory. That's a democratic travesty that knocks the referendum whinging into a cocked hat.

But we're a step closer to PR now as a result
 
Paul the Wolf said:
All wrong I'm afraid.
No I'm not new to France , have lived here 9 years , my wife is French, my children and grandchildren have dual nationaility-have spent a lot of my life in France over the past 40 odd years and also around Europe, I have even dealt with the ministers in the French government directly .
Le Pen gained a popular vote due to the immigrant/terrorist threat issue, but will not get close to the presidency, her economic policies are even worse than Brexit and that's saying something.

Yes the referendum has exposed divisions that have existed before, the same divisions since time im memoriam, same as they were back in the 50s/60s/70s/80s etc, this time the referendum has seemingly given some justification to people to openly display their hate, racism and xenophobia

No I'm not being hit financially - I am paid in Euros and having not trusted the British people to have the sense vote in the right way I protected myself before Brexit and have saved myself a lot of money.

As I have said countless times I have no agenda on this, just an ex-Brit looking at the sorry state of my country of birth - and sad at the stupidity -not enraged.
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Clearly not. I'm correct about Le Pen and the rise of the right and if you think she and her detoxified party are going away you need to go back and look again at the facts. Hopefully these "ministers" you have dealt with are slightly more aware of the danger her party presents. I was also correct to point out that the divisions in British society are long standing and merely exposed by the referendum and not created by it as you intimated. Finally - being concerned about immigration does not make people racist and the minute we get beyond this infantile reduction of the debate to that level is the minute things start improving.
 
Adebesi said:
I really hope so. This thought it the main thing that's keeping me going. That fptp is almost untenable now and PR will have to come in.
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I've no doubt. Labour/whoever splits from them are going to have to row in with the various fringe parties to ever see power in the foreseeable future and PR is now firmly on the table. That would be one tremendous legacy of this vote.
 
Barca84 said:
Only 36.9% of the country voted Tory. That's a democratic travesty that knocks the referendum whinging into a cocked hat.

But we're a step closer to PR now as a result
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You add Conservative, UKIP and other right-wing votes and you can just about cross 50%, in line with the seats the Cons (alone) got. It is a fairly reflective parliament, if you're looking at the overall left-right split.
 
Barca84 said:
Clearly not. I'm correct about Le Pen and the rise of the right and if you think she and her detoxified party are going away you need to go back and look again at the facts. Hopefully these "ministers" you have dealt with are slightly more aware of the danger her party presents. I was also correct to point out that the divisions in British society are long standing and merely exposed by the referendum and not created by it as you intimated. Finally - being concerned about immigration does not make people racist and the minute we get beyond this infantile reduction of the debate to that level is the minute things start improving.
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Every country has right wing parties including the UK, but she will not become president , the ministers were in the industrial sectorI dealt with before the last election in France

The divisions in the country have always existed, but until now it wasn't particularly politically correct to be overtly racist, now some seem to have accepted that this voted has given them the licence to come out from behind their hoods. You keep agreeing with what I'm saying and then disagreeing ??
Not every Brexiter is a racist , not everyone who is concerned about immigration is a xenophobic but there is obviously an increase in overt displays of hatred towards immigrants.
What is ironic is seeing the colonial/commonwealth immigrants who received the racist abuse when I was growing up now voting to control immigration.

So let's see what this Brexit will achieve regarding immigration laws and how they will rewrite their legislation in the UK
Let's see what happens with the economy over the next 2/3 years to start with, then 5 years, then 10 years
Let's hope it was all worthwhile.
 
So the majority of the country didn't vote for the Tory government we have and now we also have a evil bitch as PM that literally no one voted for (not even in a leadership race of her own party). Scandalous. Democracy, eh?
 
berbatrick said:
You add Conservative, UKIP and other right-wing votes and you can just about cross 50%, in line with the seats the Cons (alone) got. It is a fairly reflective parliament, if you're looking at the overall left-right split.
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It's more nuanced than a simple left right split though isn't it? The centrists hold sway at the moment and that's why we have talk of a new centrist pro EU party. As has been noted by plenty of commentators listening to May now you realise that this is where she is pitching the Tories.
 
Pink Moon said:
So the majority of the country didn't vote for the Tory government we have and now we also have a evil bitch as PM that literally no one voted for (not even in a leadership race of her own party). Scandalous. Democracy, eh?
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Who would you have as PM?
 
Pink Moon said:
So the majority of the country didn't vote for the Tory government we have and now we also have a evil bitch as PM that literally no one voted for (not even in a leadership race of her own party). Scandalous. Democracy, eh?
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Yeah but we've taken back control.
 
The Firestarter said:
Can somebody explain this, is she simply appointed? Why there was no internal party election?
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There was, and all challengers dropped out. Worth noting that a party membership has never in UK history directly elected someone to be Prime Minister.
 
Ubik said:
There was, and all challengers dropped out. Worth noting that a party membership has never in UK history directly elected someone to be Prime Minister.
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Thanks. No one wants to set course to the iceberg eh?
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
Come on Paul, you are calling people racist and talking about Brown shirts so it just came to me who you reminded of, a French Lord Haw haw.
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Lord Haw Haw was an American/Irish traitor who was a propagandist for Nazi Germany and a member of the British Union of Facists - which is the complete opposite of my views and I also remember you calling me xenophobic because I live in France which happens to be the same country as where Marie Le Pen lives, I still keep laughing at that one.

Edit; and it's morale not moral;)
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Lord Haw Haw was an American/Irish traitor who was a propagandist for Nazi Germany and a member of the British Union of Facists - which is the complete opposite of my views and I also remember you calling me xenophobic because I live in France which happens to be the same country as where Marie Le Pen lives, I still keep laughing at that one.

Edit; and it's morale not moral;)
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I pointed out that calling Britain racist for voting Brexit was bit rich given the popularity of FN in France where you live.

And Lord Haw Haw was the name given to other such propagandists and became a generic name for people behaving a bit like you are here.

And a spelling fascist too I see.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
I pointed out that calling Britain racist for voting Brexit was bit rich given the popularity of FN in France where you live.

And Lord Haw Haw was the name given to other such propagandists and became a generic name for people behaving a bit like you are here.

And a spelling fascist too I see.
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Because I think the UK are stupid for voting Brexit

You think there are 66 million xenophobes living in France, ok
I am behaving like a Nazi propagandist, ok
following so far or not as the case maybe

I do admit about the spelling though
 
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Red Defence said:
Change the record will you. It's so tedious having to read your posts when they continually refer to people as "stupid", "idiots" or "xenophobes", especially when it's you that's the stupid idiot and xenophobe.
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And there he appears the fourth horseman - someone calls me a nazi propagandist and I call him an idiot - guess who the moronic fool is here
 
Paul the Wolf said:
And there he appears the fourth horseman - someone calls me a nazi propagandist and I call him an idiot - guess who the moronic fool is here
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:lol:

Great guns....knew you wouldn't like that. Knew I'd get you to be even more insulting than you already have been. Hope you've learned something there. Now give it a rest eh and stop acting like a prick.
 
Red Defence said:
:lol:

Great guns....knew you wouldn't like that. Knew I'd get you to be even more insulting than you already have been. Hope you've learned something there. Now give it a rest eh and stop acting like a prick.
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You are a pathetic little fool, you don't even seem to understand what xenophobic means or very little else for that matter, you really are a moron
 
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