Pogba's inconsistency and limitations in terms of what roles he can play should effectively put him far below Bruno and also below DDG. He's our 3rd best player in terms of pure skill, but consistency and adaptability our also important aspects. It's therefore not unthinkable to place him even outside the top 5.
Who is our third best player?
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I wouldn't have Rashford as 2nd. He had that three month period last season where that would definitely have been accurate, but he hasn't really been close to that level before that period or since.
In terms of importance I'd put Fred 2nd. He shouldn't be as he's obviously not as talented as some of the others, but there's no point behind talented if you are extremely inconsistent which basically every other option is. Martial would have been deserving last season but he's obviously started this season in horrendous form. Pogba is inconsistent (although before this season it was never as bad as most people made out and he would have been the correct answer 12 months ago). Maguire has been too inconsistent. DDG has started this season quite well again but he's coming off two poor seasons.
It all kind of ends up with Bruno and Fred being the heartbeat of our team and the others taking turns coming in and out of form around them.
In terms of importance I'd put Fred 2nd. He shouldn't be as he's obviously not as talented as some of the others, but there's no point behind talented if you are extremely inconsistent which basically every other option is. Martial would have been deserving last season but he's obviously started this season in horrendous form. Pogba is inconsistent (although before this season it was never as bad as most people made out and he would have been the correct answer 12 months ago). Maguire has been too inconsistent. DDG has started this season quite well again but he's coming off two poor seasons.
It all kind of ends up with Bruno and Fred being the heartbeat of our team and the others taking turns coming in and out of form around them.
Martial was our 2nd best player last season at worst, and I would argue without him at the end we could've lost the 4th spot.
He had a bad start this season for whatever season but he'll be back performing soon and at his best, he's our best forward.
Rashford, Fred, and Shaw compete for the 3rd but would exclude the latter for his constant injuries.
He had a bad start this season for whatever season but he'll be back performing soon and at his best, he's our best forward.
Rashford, Fred, and Shaw compete for the 3rd but would exclude the latter for his constant injuries.
Our most important / best players are Bruno and Fred by some distance.
We don’t currently have a 3rd best player but it should be more clearer by the end of the season.
We don’t currently have a 3rd best player but it should be more clearer by the end of the season.
Nonsense. He’s underrated if anything. We even have a thread talking about selling him, the captain of the team. His mistakes are amplified and his good qualities never talked about. Frankly if he wasn’t here then we’d end up going back to rotating the two centre halves every game depending on who was fit at the time.
That's lovely. I assume I'm allowed to keep my opinion though? If I were picking a team it wouldn't include Pogba.
AWB. Transformative to our defence
Its probably Fred then Martial.
Exactly. Rashford plays well once in every 3 or 4 games. Fred is consistently our best player, while not as important as Bruno, he is consistently our best performer.
The calls for DDG are bonkers. He is making at least one mistake every two games these days.
Not this season. He's also made some very good saves. He's no longer our standout performer, but that has more to do with our outfield players finally being consistently good(in 2020 at least).
Bruno
Pogba
Wan Bissaka
Rashford
Matic
Pogba
Wan Bissaka
Rashford
Matic
agree.
he’s not the second coming of Baresi, but that doesn’t mean he’s crap, it seems so binary on here these days. He’s a good player, that’s clearly made our defence better.
I'd probably go with Maguire
Fred would be up there but we have lesser options who can replace him. Not sure we have anyone who can reliably replace Maguire
Fred would be up there but we have lesser options who can replace him. Not sure we have anyone who can reliably replace Maguire
this is turning into more of a popularity contest..
What’s Telles done wrong to get the bottom level? You’ve completely missed Pogba. DvB top level but Martial second level? Based on what? Nonsensical post.
Rashford isn’t consistent enough to be my number 2. Bruno is clearly number 1 followed by De Gea then it’s a toss up between Rashford, Maguire, Pogba and Martial.
consistency is a challenge. I do wonder, whether, because performances are analysed so forensically now, that it’s hard for anyone but the very best players to be considered consistent? Even Bruno - you will hear comments like “shit game, but scored”.
is consistency an improbable barometer that we look for?
I said in my very first sentence it is difficult to grade players like this. Telles looks fine to me from what I've seen and could easily end up being in that second tier, it's only subjective to my view. Currently, I'd still pick Shaw over him.
With regard to Martial, sorry but I can't judge on talent alone, and yes, I view DvB differently, he's class and will be a fantastic player for us I'm sure. I'm not a massive fan of Martial and his very sporadic bursts of form. If he produced more then he'd be one of our top players. No point in calling my post nonsensical.
Pogba? I wouldn't even know where to put him so didn't bother. Again, you can't just judge on talent. It has to be productivity and contribution. Currently he's not even in the team.
Agreed.
Of course. I wouldn’t pick him either. I was just replying to your list of “best footballers” at the club which didn’t include him.
Have you ever seen Telles play? Because you’ve violated him here mate.
Cavaniiiiiiiii!!!!!
Bruno, Martial, Maguire for me at the moment.
would say bruno then its a step down to the rest, not sure we really have a 2nd best player at the moment, really like VDB but to early to call him at the moment.
Agree that Bruno and Rashford are our top 2... dunno about third, largely depends on form I guess. It's probably Fred as he is the most consistent out of anyone.
Obviously you could argue that Rashford's very inconsistent but I think his talent level puts him beyond (and the fact that he does turn it on more frequently then others).
Obviously you could argue that Rashford's very inconsistent but I think his talent level puts him beyond (and the fact that he does turn it on more frequently then others).
In terms of contribution over the past two years. It’s doubtful he’s in the top 10.
fact is, he’s no longer a first team player, and potentially now DVDB has jumped ahead of him in the pecking order. I can’t judge whether DVDB is a better player, based on a couple of games - but few people would have Pogba as part of our starting midfield - so more than thinkable he’s not in our top 5, and arguable not in the top 10.
Oh my lord, the Telles Police! See my ,most recent post.
The thread is about here and now, not two years ago. At best I can remember one outstanding game from Pogba in the last 18 months.
Pogba has been here for four years and you can count the times he showed up in big games on one hand. With him the arguments have always been "he's the best footballer we have", "he needs player on his wavelength to shine" and "at his best he's our most important player". I used to think there was some truth in those arguments but Bruno has come in and shattered those illusions within months. You don't need to be at your best or have ten teammates on your wavelength to make things happen. Bruno is the player Pogba should have been.
Ole has been a massive Pogba fan for years (even before he took charge) and it says a lot when even he has realised he can't trust the player. I have no clue how a player who can't even get in the starting XI on merit is supposed to be a top 3 footballer at the club.
Behind Bruno is a tossup between about 6 players that all suffer from inconsistency. One or two of them becoming more consistent would elevate to us the next level.
Fred is our second best player IMO. But hard to decide on 3rd best. Not sure it's Rashford on current form. I'd go for Maguire, Shaw maybe.
Well I would have him at fault for the second goal against Southampton and also the goal against Istanbul.
I'm sure he was culpable for at least 2 other goals as well this season but I'm struggling to think of which games.
I do accept he has pulled off some good saves as well this season but I used to argue that he was better than Schmeichel and VDS....no where near that level these days.
I think Bruno is No1 then from there on it's who ever is having a good game, I mean Rashford and Martial (minus this season) can be make or break and then we've got Fred who also can be brilliant or average. When people say Bruno United I can agree with them.
The thread may be about it, your post wasn't. It was simply untrue.
In terms of efficacy in what they do (i.e. not sheer ability);
Bruno
Rashford
AWB
Maguire
De Gea
Greenwood
Fred
DvdB
Martial
Pogba
in that order
Bruno
Rashford
AWB
Maguire
De Gea
Greenwood
Fred
DvdB
Martial
Pogba
in that order
All about opinions mate, but in my opinion he is miles ahead of anything else we have, despite what the media would like you to believe. Yes, he has made errors but he is getting back to near his best and on sheer talent, he is miles ahead of Henderson. Henderson will never be "world class" in my opinion. De Gea certainly was, and has shown signs he is getting back to near that level at times. If the questions is who are our most on form players that is a different question to who i think are our best and most talented players
Bruno, Cavani and Rashford.
As with all player discussions, it all seems a bit binary.
Henderson has done nothing to suggest he should be no 1 ahead of DDG, that’s not to say he can’t be a great keeper, but he hasn’t had the opportunity to prove or not to prove that. He’s not been tested. The real test is when he drops a clanger (as all keepers do), and to see how he recovers from it.
DDG has improved dramatically this season from the past 18 months. As long as he keeps that form, Henderson won’t get near the no 1 jersey.
It’s the Martial VdB categorisation I don’t get. Martial has produced more - most of last season. VdB hasn’t produced much yet besides being a silky little safe player. The logic and rationale behind it doesn’t make much sense to me, sorry.
Best player or most important player? In both case I would say Bruno number one.
Most important players imo:
1. Bruno
2. Maguire
If we look at it from the perspective: If this player gets injured, it is a disaster, then I would add: Fred, AWB, Lindelof after Bruno and Maguire, as there are no satisfying alternatives to them.
It is interesting to see peoples answers and compare them with the Red café ratings this season. I have removed the players who have less than 300 PL minutes so far this season.
DDG and Bruno 6.3
Fred 6.2
Lindelof 6.0
Rashford 5.8
AWB 5.7
McT 5.6
Shaw 5.5
Maguire & Greenwood 5.4
Martial & Pogba 4.9
Most important players imo:
1. Bruno
2. Maguire
If we look at it from the perspective: If this player gets injured, it is a disaster, then I would add: Fred, AWB, Lindelof after Bruno and Maguire, as there are no satisfying alternatives to them.
It is interesting to see peoples answers and compare them with the Red café ratings this season. I have removed the players who have less than 300 PL minutes so far this season.
DDG and Bruno 6.3
Fred 6.2
Lindelof 6.0
Rashford 5.8
AWB 5.7
McT 5.6
Shaw 5.5
Maguire & Greenwood 5.4
Martial & Pogba 4.9