He hasn't worked out due to his own failings as much as anything else.
Who was worse - Rangnick or Ole?
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He hasn't worked out due to his own failings as much as anything else.
Do we live in a era where we just focus 100% on anything negative ?
How about who was the better manager ? ..
I love Ole, but him and Woodward has set us back a few years, how can Ralf do that in 6 months as a interim ?
I have no doubt United will benefit more from Ralf's input than what Ole did as a manager.
How about who was the better manager ? ..
I love Ole, but him and Woodward has set us back a few years, how can Ralf do that in 6 months as a interim ?
I have no doubt United will benefit more from Ralf's input than what Ole did as a manager.
Again odds where stacked against him.
I have seen him with Schalke and Hoffenheim. He used to be a very decent manager. Certainly leagues above Ole.
Maybe so but what % of managers Interim or otherwise don't have the odds stacked against them when they take over a team mid-season after someone else got sacked?
But regardless we don't need the victim narrative with bullshit like ''the board didn't support him'', like Interim managers are usually allowed to sign players and build their own sides. He failed, wasn't all his fault but he failed miserably none the less, so let's call a spade a spade and move on.
He failed, but he wont be here next season. A lot of the roots that helped cause this failure might be and thus it is important to reflect on why exactly he failed so spectacularly.
Yeah I agree but reflecting on the actual causes shouldn't include making up bullshit excuses like he wasn't backed in the transfer market. Ten Hag will be backed in the transfer market so that won't be a problem going forward.
Exactly. He failed and the main reason he failed was because of the previous manager and Woodward. Also if you look at the people who are regularly having a go at Ralf are the same people who were the Ole in cult.
Their respective interim periods were night and day different.
Nice to see Ole nostalgia BS still going strong in the fan base from the poll results 
. These guys will be calling for Scholes, Rooney co to be manager next time we are looking for a manager.
. These guys will be calling for Scholes, Rooney co to be manager next time we are looking for a manager.Judging plainly by results, Ralf was an absolute shower. That's how I've voted.
However, we're judging 6 months against 3 years ... The amount Ole has set us back is way more than Ralf.
However, we're judging 6 months against 3 years ... The amount Ole has set us back is way more than Ralf.
Rangnick was thrown mid way into the season with a lazy team and a toxic dressing room. He had no preseason to implement his game, he wasn't allowed to hire his men or sign new players and had to work with a team built by some amateur whose only positive thing in his CV was to have played with Manchester United. How on earth can you compare Rangnick to Ole who had 3 years to implement 'his game', had brought his own coaching staff and had spent 420m+ in this squad?
The club went from 2nd place to 6th and a toxic dressing room before Ole, and 2nd place to 6th now and a toxic dressing room after Ole. This is just history repeating itself. The dressing room has been toxic ever since Fergie left. Anyone who seriously believes the rot started under Ole is either ignorant or deluded, or likely both.
Hands off? They gave the keys to Old Trafford to a banker without any sort of footballing background. They were happy seeing us go from title challengers every season to only caring about the revenue you get from finishing top 4. They could’ve intervened at various points over the years if they genuinely cared about the club being successful on the pitch. They didn’t. The buck stops with the owners.
Why do you think top and relevant managers rejected us one after another over the last decade? Why do you think the alarm bells ringed for Klopp when he was presented the opportunity to manage the ‘adult Disney world’? Glazers/Woodward are the sole reasons for us being in a rot. No one else.
Ralf lost the locker room made my vote. Couldn't make the team play the way he wanted, couldn't adapt with the squad he had, couldn't address the dressing room politics, couldn't discipline the players, he pandered to Lingards every request when he wanted a week out, couldn't make the players respect him enough till they faked injuries. There was no team at all by the end of the season.
At least the players were playing their hearts out under Ole for 2 years. When Martial, Rashford were bad the team still carried on scraping last minute wins and draws. 3rd season was a stinker but new players adapting to the system and what i thought Ole's inability to balance the team out would've been my reason and agree we needed him out. Not saying he's good enough for United and the players did threw Ralf under the bus but off the two, Ralf did worst in my opinion.
At least the players were playing their hearts out under Ole for 2 years. When Martial, Rashford were bad the team still carried on scraping last minute wins and draws. 3rd season was a stinker but new players adapting to the system and what i thought Ole's inability to balance the team out would've been my reason and agree we needed him out. Not saying he's good enough for United and the players did threw Ralf under the bus but off the two, Ralf did worst in my opinion.
How OGS has 47% of the vote is beyond me. Do the people voting on this poll actually watch the matches?
What happened to my ralf vs ole thread? There is already a thread on this
ralf has been worse because there was expectations he would be good. Ole, I knew he would be bad, so not really surprised. I was surprised that ole somehow lucked his way into a 2nd spot. That was amazing for a manager of his caliber
ralf has been worse because there was expectations he would be good. Ole, I knew he would be bad, so not really surprised. I was surprised that ole somehow lucked his way into a 2nd spot. That was amazing for a manager of his caliber
Nice to see Ole nostalgia BS still going strong in the fan base from the poll results
Expand on how Ralfs tenure was better than Oles please. What has been achieved?
Ole, obviously. Rangnick didn't sign a single player, or have any kind of preseason yet still tried to play the way we are supposed to, high back line high press possession attacking football, didn't expect it to work as he had zero signings and no preseason to train. Ole on the other hand after 3 bloody years and billions spent managed to assemble one of the worst squads and play horrid outdated primitive football, a back 6! ffs, Counter attacking shite. Prehistoric football, even after spending half a billion, useless. I have no doubt if radnick had spent that much and had 3 seasons we would be playing decent football, not that Ole shite.
There are many possibilities. No one knows. Ole has his ceiling as all things turn out. But, he is not a bad manager as many claim here. The reality is that it’s extremely hard for managers to reach that higher level. It can only be achieved with the right infrastructure as well. I hope ETH is eventually one of the few reaching that level. It’s on Murtough and Arnold to support it.
Ralf did a terrible job at getting results with Ole’s squad. No one is going to argue about that. But not even Lord Jesus Guardiola himself would have made it work.
Everything that is currently in place is the work of useless Ed and his pet Ole. From the terrible atmosphere and team work to the lack of ability in the squad. This has been built over the 3? Years Ole was in charge. So it’s really questionable to attribute the finish to the season entirely on Ralf.
In truth both are massive failures but there’s just no comparison here, Ole was worse. His win % might be higher but he failed in every competition and contributed far more to your downfall than Ralf.
I cannot blame Rangnick much for the way the team has performed this season. There are too many things simply out of his hands, or things that he cannot really be held meaningfully responsible for. Could he have done better? Sure, maybe. But ultimately the blame lies with the previous management, the players and the whole set up.
This is all a bit pointless.... both were poor and it was a horrible season, thank goodness it is over. Here's hoping to a successful summer transfer window and a great ETH reign ahead.
Agreed. Good post.
But why was Ole worse? As in, how bad would Ralf have had to do to be considered worse?
I fully agree with a lot of what you’re saying here in terms of Ralf having no pre season and this being Ole/Ed squad etc..
But Michael Carrick was able to get results with this squad.
OGS was able to come into an even more toxic dressing room (at the time of joining) than the one he left and with the club in a worse position in the league, and again still get results and decent performances.
But reading through this thread it just feels like Ralph gets a by ball and is accountable for nothing.
The squad Ralph inherited is a stronger one than Jose left OGS imo. The only thing I’ll say though is that I include Mason Greenwood in the squad left and he has been a huge loss in terms of attacking options on the pitch.
So having said all of the above. I still believe Ralph was the worst of the two and every statistic or piece of analysis when you compare the two tenures would show this too.
Those suggesting Ralph did a better job either aren’t watching the matches or have an agenda imo.
Rangnick can't be held accountable for a team he had absolutely no part in creating. It was built in part by Ole, Jose and LVG, with the former having the most influence on it. Thus, Ole comes off far worse.
How is this even a contest?
How is this even a contest?
Worst win rate in over 50 years
First manager to not have a positive GD in over 50 years
Worst dressing room in decades (which got exponentially worse since “specs” took over)
Yet it’s all Oles fault. Let’s not forget that Jose considered finishing 2nd with his United squad his greatest ever achievement either. So OGS defo didn’t take over a strong squad.
Ralphs squad also finished second and EL runners up the season before. And had a 80 million pound winger, the goat and one of the most decorated defenders in recent history added to that squad.
Based on some of these comments I guess we can conclude that Michael Carrick must be the best manager in our history then with what he was able to do in his short tenure.
First manager to not have a positive GD in over 50 years
Worst dressing room in decades (which got exponentially worse since “specs” took over)
Yet it’s all Oles fault. Let’s not forget that Jose considered finishing 2nd with his United squad his greatest ever achievement either. So OGS defo didn’t take over a strong squad.
Ralphs squad also finished second and EL runners up the season before. And had a 80 million pound winger, the goat and one of the most decorated defenders in recent history added to that squad.
Based on some of these comments I guess we can conclude that Michael Carrick must be the best manager in our history then with what he was able to do in his short tenure.
All the things you're trying belittle Ralf over, are just as, if not more damning for Ole.
Both were shit but the trajectory under Ole was much worse than what we ended up seeing.
Absolutely nobody in the whole forum has posted or even dares to think that RR did a good job, as he very obviously didn't. What is rightly being argued is that the circumstances make it impossible to assess his ability to manage the team fairly. That's not the case with OGS though, everybody except for a few hardcore fans know perfectly well the kind of manager he is and the damage he did to the club. That's why nobody is going to hire him anytime soon, and very likely nobody ever is, at least at the highest level. Legendary United player who should have never been made permanent United manager.
Carrick was in charge for 3 matches. He won 2 draw 1. Exactly the same as Rangnick first 3 matches
Possibly unfair to judge Rangnick based on a short and definitively temporary period, but I reckon we would have done better this season just sticking with Ole. Also, last season was really not bad. BUT, the biggest issue over years and years since SAF has been recruitment, and Ole's record there doesn't look great at all.
Although Solskjær interim spell was really good and he went unbeaten in a run of tricky fixtures where as rangnick came in and the fixture list looked straightforward and easy.
It’s very clear now that Ole should run the team till the end of the season. Ralf failed categorically. There is nothing to defend that.
It’s also getting close to why the team divides so much. It’s Ronaldo’s unexpected transfer. I don’t believe Ronaldo has any bad intentions, instead, he wants the club successful. But, the reality is the unintended effects becomes out of control when things go bad. it’s a clear contrast to how many times we won from losing position last season. Ole takes part of blame to agree Ronaldo rejoin us.
I hope Ronaldo also adjust his mindset next season. He is a matured professional and the reaction against the substitution in Brentford game is unacceptable for me.
It’s also getting close to why the team divides so much. It’s Ronaldo’s unexpected transfer. I don’t believe Ronaldo has any bad intentions, instead, he wants the club successful. But, the reality is the unintended effects becomes out of control when things go bad. it’s a clear contrast to how many times we won from losing position last season. Ole takes part of blame to agree Ronaldo rejoin us.
I hope Ronaldo also adjust his mindset next season. He is a matured professional and the reaction against the substitution in Brentford game is unacceptable for me.
That isn't clear at all. Our form had gone off a cliff under Ole. The board gave him more time than they should to fix the slide and he couldn't correct it. He'd made a rod for his own back by promising everyone playing time, rarely rotating and not understanding how to transition his tactics to a more proactive brand of football.
I genuinely think we could have been in the bottom half of the league had he been given the season.
Ralf hasn't fared much better, but honestly we could have had Matt Busby reincarnated and that wouldn't have been enough. The rot had well and truly set in, and the cliques that had formed lead to resentment among the players as well as some that appeared to be actively undermining the management.
The positive we can take from Ralf's tenure is the sweeping changes we seemed to make as an organisation. I'm not claiming Ralf was directly involved or even consulted about these changes but the shift in our planning and future proofing has changed fairly dramatically since January. I think the board had tied their own hands behind their back with Ole as they knew to some fans he could do no wrong, so were less inclined to make the necessary changes.
The comparison might be slightly unfair as you could say Rangnick's failings was a result of Solksjaer's previous failings, but Solksjaer at least had some high points, Rangnick was utter failure with zero high points, so Rangnick was worse, easily.
And I do not for one second think that if the club were able to get someone of Rangnick's level and above, they'd have performed just as bad. They might not have turned it around, but I find it hard to believe any experienced interim manager could been worse.
And I do not for one second think that if the club were able to get someone of Rangnick's level and above, they'd have performed just as bad. They might not have turned it around, but I find it hard to believe any experienced interim manager could been worse.
Carrick was in charge for 3 matches. He won 2 draw 1. Exactly the same as Rangnick first 3 matches
Huge difference in opposition though
Very good post. Anyone who says otherwise clearly has an agenda.
Im still yet to have anyone who suggested OGS was worse actually answer my question which is “How bad would Ralph have had to have been to be considered worse?”
I think if Ralph lost every game some would still blame Ole on here.
There was a nice honeymoon period for Ole where he let the players do what they wanted. Soon as he asked them to work harder they lost to relegated teams and missed out on top 4.
Rangnick asked them to bend to discipline from day one and the result was the same.
That and digging into the failings of an interim manager to make Ole's failures as a full manager over several years somehow better. Quite pathetic.
you can't claim Carrick made it work with just 3 matches, no matter who the oppositions are.
You either judge them both based on everything they did for United or you judge them based on their interim jobs. Ole wins either way.
And anyone who thinks that the team Ole inherited was better than the one Rangnick inherited is suffering from a serious case of revisionism.
And anyone who thinks that the team Ole inherited was better than the one Rangnick inherited is suffering from a serious case of revisionism.
Bit of an overreaction over one sentence, no?
This is easy.
If Ralf have a summer and was given funds to buy players he wanted, spent a season with United and his result is still this bad, then yes he's worse than Solskjaer
Actually Carrick had it much harder as he was tasked to steady the ship first. And then there's the different level of opponents. Ragnick's first three were Palace at home, Young Boys at home, and Norwich away.