Not really. Everton getting Carlo was a major achievement. Don’t know what planet you were on when they were initially linked with him.
Who's the best coach/manager in the world right now?
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Not really. Everton getting Carlo was a major achievement. Don’t know what planet you were on when they were initially linked with him.
I just remember how he was seen in Germany after his time at Bayern ended - here he was basically done after that and not seen as a top coach any more.
The one where he got sacked by both Bayern and Napoli before he made it halfway through his second season.
Yes there is, a lack of big clubs available to manage at the min.
Yeah. He signed that 5 year contract as an interlude until a big club requires his services.
Obviously that's sarcasm, but in fact it makes sense. After Bayern had to sack him because he completely lost the dressing room due to his training methods (were some of their best players even started training sessions on their own because they believed they did to little in Ancelottis sessions) it will take years for him to rebuild his reputation to be considered an option at any real top club again. But I don't believe it will happen, so getting a five year contract anywhere is like a lottery win for him and not justified by anything he did at Bayern or Napoli.
Finishing midtable at Everton won't bring him into consideration at top clubs. You see a 60 year old guy sign a 5 year contract with one of the biggest money burning operations in Europe, when they are down even, then it doesn't take a lot of imagination to put 1 plus 1 together.
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Pep and Klopp. Maybe Nagelsmann. I'm not sure about Zidane though, I want to see him in another club before I make up my mind.
He was fired at Napoli because of a conflict between the president and the manager/players. The team were 8th at the time, I believe. They finished the season on 7th place.
I think Bundesliga fans overrate how much his reputation has been damaged because of that stint at Bayern.
Before Bayern:
15 years of coaching Juventus, Milan, Chelsea, PSG and Real.
After Bayern:
18 months at Napoli
5yr contract at Everton
Like how much clearer can the decline be than coaching 18 years at clubs that aim to win the CL, to 18 months at a club that wants to qualify for CL to signing a retirement contract at a club that never even qualified for the CL.
I like Ancelotti and in terms of career achievements he's one of the all-time greats, but for the last four years now everything points towards him being way over the hill.
He is quite clearly not 'over the hill'!!
Possibly the funniest thing I have seen on here recently!
You are basing his 'decline' on the clubs he chooses to manage.
His arrival at Everton was seen as an absolute coup, a signing that no-one believed was possible, yet Ancelotti went for it anyhow, I'm sure he would have had another top level job had he not have taken it.
I mean, by your rationale Brendan Rogers is in decline as he's manager of Leicester after being manager of Liverpool and Celtic...
Flick, Pep as others have stated the rest fall considerably further behind. Klopp for me on toP form is a better manager than Pep, he's outperformed City with the league and a UCL. Also whenever City / Klopp were going head to head prior to this season, Liverpool typically prevailed from what I recall despite having a vastly inferior squad overall.
Klopp has beaten Pep once in the last 6 games, Pep has a 3-2-1 record both the draw saw City miss PK in each so it could've been 5-0-1 in favour of Pep so it's not just this season, as well as if you include the Community Shield that was also won by Pep via PK shootout. In the start Klopp had a superior record with an even worse squad then now but it seems Pep has smarten up tactically against Klopp and has since had his number.
There is a difference between declining in quality and 'having your reputation ruined,' which is the exact phrasing you used and is absurd. The world doesn't revolve around the Bundesliga. Doing badly there in one stint at Bayern Munich isn't going to ruin the reputation of a three-time CL winner.
Ancelotti has declined a bit, but his main issue is the one your post indirectly highlights: he's already had all the jobs. He's already managed Bayern, Real Madrid, PSG, AC Milan, and Chelsea. Clubs don't tend to repeat managers unless they're club legends. He could return to AC Milan, but that wouldn't be a 'top team' right now. As for the rest, Barcelona don't hire managers of his profile. Manchester City and Liverpool already had Pep and Klopp. Where's he supposed to be hired that's a top team? United?
For me going from elite clubs to signing a long term contract at a struggling Everton side is a ruined reputation, I understand why someone might feel like that's too strong a word, but in the end that's semantics. 10 years passed between his jobs at Milan, Juve and the end of his Napoli stint, that's basically another lifetime in football and Real re-hired Capello and Zidane, Chelsea re-hired Mourinho, Bayern re-hired Heynckes and Juventus re-hired Conte, so it's not like clubs categorically rule out that kind of thing either.
And why would this have to do anything with Bundesliga? My reasoning is less about what happened at Bayern than it is what happened afterwards: the market sorting him first to Napoli and most importantly to Everton. I think I have made that more than clear by now.
They also met in the final of the League Cup a few years ago which City won.
Nope, that was under Pellegrini.
Yes...you are right... just found it on YouTube.
Pep and Flick, then Klopp, Zidane and Tuchel.
Its a great question right now. At the beginning of the season it was clearly Klopp but its hard to say that at the moment when Liverpool are 7th, regardless of injuries.
Which team are doing better than would be expected by their resources/transfers going into the season?
I honestly dont think City are. They look so far ahead because Liverpool fell off so much from last season. Given that circumstance and what they have spent arent they exactly where they should be? So for me Pep is doing good, but no chance is he doing great.
Leicester ahead of Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool? If thats how it ends up on the last day of the season I'm more impressed with Rogers than Pep. Leicester showed their potential last season but fell apart in the 2nd half of the season and they absolutely spent money to reinforce for that situation this season. But outdoing all those other clubs who also spent is more impressive to me.
As for other leagues I'm not sure Leipzig are ahead of where they should be. They looked like winning the title last season. They've gone from finishing 3rd in the previous 2 seasons to currently being 2nd place... Thats good, its progress if they finish there. Better than Leicester's progress? I'm not sure.
Which team are doing better than would be expected by their resources/transfers going into the season?
I honestly dont think City are. They look so far ahead because Liverpool fell off so much from last season. Given that circumstance and what they have spent arent they exactly where they should be? So for me Pep is doing good, but no chance is he doing great.
Leicester ahead of Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool? If thats how it ends up on the last day of the season I'm more impressed with Rogers than Pep. Leicester showed their potential last season but fell apart in the 2nd half of the season and they absolutely spent money to reinforce for that situation this season. But outdoing all those other clubs who also spent is more impressive to me.
As for other leagues I'm not sure Leipzig are ahead of where they should be. They looked like winning the title last season. They've gone from finishing 3rd in the previous 2 seasons to currently being 2nd place... Thats good, its progress if they finish there. Better than Leicester's progress? I'm not sure.
I don't think one can make that argument about Rodgers. Liverpool was playing for top-4 finishes/CL qualification when he left there, and that is what Leicester is also about, so I think it is safe to say that Liverpool (at the time of Rodgers leaving there) is on a similar level as Leicester is today. So following @do.ob's logic he stayed at the same level (which is managing a CL-playing club, but not necessarily PL title contender). And I think that is where he belongs - a very good manager for sure, but not one of the absolutely best.
The issue with the Ancelotti discussion really is that none of us can prove what we say - we think that he got only smaller clubs offering him jobs because the big clubs see him as a coach in decline, but obviously we all don't know what kind of offers he really got, so we will just have to disagree on him.
By the logic of "who is overperforming relative to resources" (bit silly but whatever), Marcelo Bielsa is the best coach in the PL. Last season it was Chris Wilder. One season it was Klopp. Another season it was Raineri. Also, SAF has never been the best coach in the world since he left Aberdeen.
I honestly forgot about his time at Bayern until tgis discussion. I also remember that I was a bit irritated by the appointment back then because I didn't consider Ancelotti the top, top coach I expected after Guardiola anymore. I think Ancelotti is still a very good manager but also a bit outdated as of now. He doesn't have a really defined system and is best for a short period when he can build on the work of a more detail obsessed voach. I think the same about Heynckes by the way who was more of a man management expert. I don't trust neither of them to build an extremely well drilled side like Liverpool, City, Bayern or even Real a few years back on their own.
Yes, i agree completely about Heynckes. He is basically the german Ancelotti. I still remember when he was the manager of Real Madrid. He won their first CL since the late 60s but actually that was with Fabio Capello's team. The Italian was at that time probably the best coach in the world and he managed to build a winning side just for one season. Heynckes inherited a world class team and failed badly in La liga. His europian success didnt save his job and after the season he was sacked.
Napoli finishing 6th...Everton similar.
Celtic a Champions League club back then... Liverpool also a champions league club when Rodgers left.
His rationale is therefore flawed and lackluster in its efforts.
Liverpool have always been a bigger team than Leicester, to say otherwise is false.
I think Kovac is doing a good job at Monaco this season, but Pep is top for now along with Bayern's coach.
Big Sam
Back to the question.
Pep without a doubt.
Pep without a doubt.
It’s Pep and it’s not even close. Proved it in three leagues. You can make the argument about champions league failures with Bayern and City, but I bet there’s not many United fans that use that when talking about Fergie, who undoubtedly under performed in the Champions League. Cup competitions can be very hit or miss, especially when you’re talking about a 3/4 year stint in charge of a club.
Whats Pep proved in the three leagues? Fergie proved himself before he came to Utd btw.
Some people live for the bait
Guardiola when backed with an unlimited budget.
There's a real lack of quality managers nowadays I think, you just have to look at who's managing some of the biggest clubs in the world
There's a real lack of quality managers nowadays I think, you just have to look at who's managing some of the biggest clubs in the world
Flick and Pep. Klopp is up there but this fall for Liverpool has rescinded his reputation from such a conversation at this moment in time. I feel however that Klopp has really overachieved with Liverpool compared to the resources Pep has had at his disposal.
Fergie won 2 champions League
I think only 3 managers have bettered this
Big Sam
Flick is doing it in a one team league. Pep is doing it in the most competitive league in football.
Let's not underrate what Flick did. He quickly took Bayern to a new level after Kovac's bad work there.
Still, I vote Pep
i agree. How many times have Bayern won the league in the past decade?
Flick won the sextuple in 2020 and almost never lost games.
Let's not forget Bayern before Flick took over, Kovac's work was dreadful. Flick rescued Müller, for example.
And let's not say the same bullshit that people say whenever a coach wins with an amazing team, like Guardiola with Barcelona, some people said that he was untested and unproven as a truly great coach even after winning two UCLs for Barcelona.