Why all the pessimism?

I'm absolutely delighted with this window and it's arguably our best one ever. Instead of selling our superstars to the big-spending clubs like Monaco and Real, we're buying theirs off them! This is what we've wanted for years. I have absolutely no problem with us becoming a team of galacticos because I know I'd be wetting myself with anticipation as I walked up Matt Busby Way to watch them play. We got DiMaria and Falcao in this window. Those two are unquestionably top 5 in the world in their positions. Our other players will be improved just by being on the same pitch as them. We've made a huge statement with our business this summer: we're out of Europe but we're gonna throw the kitchen sink at getting back in.

I'm giddy with excitement. GGMU!
 
noodlehair said:
Just a random guess, but it might be something to do with the fact our recent performances and results have all been completely and utterly shite?
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And you'd think revamping the squad big time would make people optimistic of change. Instead everyone's wallowing in a sea of welbeck tears.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
i think even the most miserable twat on here would be full of the joys of spring if we'd 9 points from 9 in the PL and beaten MK Dons in the CC.
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To an extent, but for me that's not true or fair. If we'd managed to get a few calls or such luck our way, we might be sitting on 7 or 9 points, playing crap football all the same. It happened under Ferguson all the time. Played bloody awful, still got the result.

There are distinct differences. We can't compare Moyes' early matches with LvG because in his early matches he was basically trying to emulate Fergie, tactically and with personnel. As the season progressed, Moyes tinkered more and more and we regressed. Van Gaal is paying the price up front, he's implemented something new from day one. And it is looking bloody awful since the premier league started. Even if we had the results, I'd still be concerned about the quality of the performances. Forgive me, but I think you'd be the same.

I think we can still be optimistic that we'll see the performances improve though. Especially since we've had so many injuries, and had to rely on some players whose eyes were firmly fixed on their next destination.

Cause for concern about the quality of football so far? Absolutely.

Hapless arguments by some (not you) about how the club has lost it's soul and identity. Piffle.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
And you'd think revamping the squad big time would make people optimistic of change. Instead everyone's wallowing in a sea of welbeck tears.
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It's pathetic and starting to get tedious beyond belief. How many threads are needed to cry rivers for our beloved 'Welbz'. I didn't want to see him go but the hysteria on here is pathetic.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
And you'd think revamping the squad big time would make people optimistic of change. Instead everyone's wallowing in a sea of welbeck tears.
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Not just revamping a squad, we're adopting an entirely new tactical approach!

May this please be a cautionary note for all those who in the past contended we should switch to 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 because they really like how Bayern or Barca or City played the weekend before. Some seem to think there is no cost for changing formation and tactics. United is suffering from this tactical change to 3-5-2.
 
Robbie Boy said:
It's pathetic and starting to get tedious beyond belief. How many threads are needed to cry rivers for our beloved 'Welbz'. I didn't want to see him go but the hysteria on here is pathetic.
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Agreed. I feel like if we heard some of this drivel being spouted in the pub, I'd be like:
 
Mainly agree with the OP

Some people have been traumatised by last season and the first few games this season. Some people will always moan.

Having only seen a couple of hours in total of our 6 new signings , perhaps either the positivity or negativity could wait until we have seen them play together for a few games, where we may have an idea how it's all going to gel.

Either way, being a positive person I can't wait for the next game and the rest of the season whatever happens, but believe it will be an exciting ride
 
Radamel FalCinao said:
Of course we will. I expect to see strong improvement after the internationals now, there shouldn't be many excuses when the squad is fully fit, although I'm struggling to remember the last time we've had a fully fit squad.
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I'm hoping rather than expecting. Never mind there shouldn't be any excuses now though. There are no excuses for anything that's happened since Christmas...yet people keep on making them.

Signings just wont cause blind optimism for many people when the main issue isn't the quality of the players we already have, but their inability to perform to anywhere near it.

When I see improved performances and results I'll be optimistic. Not because we signed more players. We signed Mata in January and it made everyone optimistic...and then we became a noticablly worse team.


amolbhatia100 said:
And you'd think revamping the squad big time would make people optimistic of change. Instead everyone's wallowing in a sea of welbeck tears.
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Or alternatively, it might be something to do with the fact our recent performances and results have all been completely and utterly shite?

I never knew people basing their confidence in a team on its results and how well it plays was such an apparently illogical thought process.
 
The core reason, we did not sign Vidal.

Falcao is welcome but not as welcome as Vidal would have been. With midifled oft ridiculed in earlier seasons, adding Falcao at top and losing out on Vidal still leaves lingering doubts.

The coming match will answer the doubts, I think...either way!
 
Noodle's pure gold as always.

feck all you optimistic, koolaid bearing posters. The lot of you made this forum a black hole for positive thinking by December of last year. The negativity on here last season was excruciating, to the point I almost requested a ban. And now I'm supposed to be happy because we spunked some money in the market, without seeing better results? After we got thrashed by MK fecking Dons?

I'll remain pessimistic, thank you very much
 
iBoss said:
Despite us finishing 7th last year? It's a bit different.
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Yeah the difference been United splashed the cash for once. Throw enough money at almost anyone and they'll play for you. I doubt the players signed this window have any extra desire or motivation to want to play for United over the other players signed during the last 100 or so years
 
Seveneric said:
Yeah the difference been United splashed the cash for once. Throw enough money at almost anyone and they'll play for you. I doubt the players signed this window have any extra desire or motivation to want to play for United over the other players signed during the last 100 or so years
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Likes of Rojo, Blind, Herrera and Shaw seem extremely happy to be here. I dunno, maybe its just me. Maybe they just have a good way with words. They seem genuine to me though. They want to work hard to get back to the top. They have a genuine belief in the club, despite us finishing 7th.
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
Too early yet. It's only 3 games in to the season and we've only seen an hour of Herrera and about an hour again of Di Maria.

Plus we're playing a new formation.

Patience is vital here.
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Agreed - and it works both ways. Let's see what happens in upcoming games against QPR, Leicester, and West Ham. They are all very winnable games. They'll give an early indication of whether problems are being fixed.
 
3-5-2 will not work us, quote me on that
 
The pessimism on here has definitely surprised me when you consider the changes that have occurred at the club in the last 18 months. The following people have left the club: Sir Alex, David Gill, all the coaches Steele, Rene, Phelan, Scholes, Giggs, Rio, Vidic, & Evra. All that experience leaving from all levels of the club.

The club was always going to struggle, like it or not. If there is anything that has been handled by the club badly I would say it was that such a transition occurred so suddenly. So much experience walking out the door in such a short period of time was always going to hurt us. The club really should've planned the Gill/SAF exit better, i.e. have SAF retire, then when the new manager is settled, let Gill go as well. Ditto with the squad, losing the on-field and off-field leadership and experience of Rio, Vidic, and Evra was always going to leave us struggling at the back. So the fact that we haven't won a game thus far isn't hugely surprising, LVG is having to gel together a whole new squad.

I don't share a lot of the pessimism expressed on here. Cast your mind back to De Gea signing. His first 6-8 months at the club were like a microcosm of what's going on now at the club. It was clear he was a talented player but he struggled big time when he started out. He's now one of our most important players, it just took a while for his class to shine through and find his feet. LVG is clearly an excellent manager with experience at the highest level and he is managing a squad that whilst at the moment not playing good football has a lot of talent. Once all the signings start to bed in and our players come to grips with the new game plan I think United will be a much different proposition for opposition teams.

Make no mistake this is the biggest transition the club has been through his SAF took over and it was never going to be plain sailing. I think the most important thing for the club now is to stick to their guns and persist. Persist with the game plan, the players, the manager. You look at a club like Tottenhan. A constant revolving door of managers reminds me of that old saying "don't confuse motion with progress, a rocking horse doesn't stop moving but goes nowhere." Tottenham constantly change managers and as a result they go no where.

I'm definitely optimistic that LVG can get us back to challenging for the title in the three years he is with us.
 
my problem with statements like "he can get us back on track in three years" is, that missing out on the CL again would be another step backwards, not forward. While a 4th place is a great result, where LvG can continue to build on, a 5th place would be a disaster, almost regardless of how the team plays. Talking about some hypothetical point in three years makes little sense when some amount of immediate success is necessary to advance.
 
ninety said:
The pessimism on here has definitely surprised me when you consider the changes that have occurred at the club in the last 18 months. The following people have left the club: Sir Alex, David Gill, all the coaches Steele, Rene, Phelan, Scholes, Giggs, Rio, Vidic, & Evra. All that experience leaving from all levels of the club.

The club was always going to struggle, like it or not. If there is anything that has been handled by the club badly I would say it was that such a transition occurred so suddenly. So much experience walking out the door in such a short period of time was always going to hurt us. The club really should've planned the Gill/SAF exit better, i.e. have SAF retire, then when the new manager is settled, let Gill go as well. Ditto with the squad, losing the on-field and off-field leadership and experience of Rio, Vidic, and Evra was always going to leave us struggling at the back. So the fact that we haven't won a game thus far isn't hugely surprising, LVG is having to gel together a whole new squad.

I don't share a lot of the pessimism expressed on here. Cast your mind back to De Gea signing. His first 6-8 months at the club were like a microcosm of what's going on now at the club. It was clear he was a talented player but he struggled big time when he started out. He's now one of our most important players, it just took a while for his class to shine through and find his feet. LVG is clearly an excellent manager with experience at the highest level and he is managing a squad that whilst at the moment not playing good football has a lot of talent. Once all the signings start to bed in and our players come to grips with the new game plan I think United will be a much different proposition for opposition teams.

Make no mistake this is the biggest transition the club has been through his SAF took over and it was never going to be plain sailing. I think the most important thing for the club now is to stick to their guns and persist. Persist with the game plan, the players, the manager. You look at a club like Tottenhan. A constant revolving door of managers reminds me of that old saying "don't confuse motion with progress, a rocking horse doesn't stop moving but goes nowhere." Tottenham constantly change managers and as a result they go no where.

I'm definitely optimistic that LVG can get us back to challenging for the title in the three years he is with us.
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Good post. Very sensible and well put and sums up a lot of my own thoughts.
 
ninety said:
The pessimism on here has definitely surprised me when you consider the changes that have occurred at the club in the last 18 months. The following people have left the club: Sir Alex, David Gill, all the coaches Steele, Rene, Phelan, Scholes, Giggs, Rio, Vidic, & Evra. All that experience leaving from all levels of the club.

The club was always going to struggle, like it or not. If there is anything that has been handled by the club badly I would say it was that such a transition occurred so suddenly. So much experience walking out the door in such a short period of time was always going to hurt us. The club really should've planned the Gill/SAF exit better, i.e. have SAF retire, then when the new manager is settled, let Gill go as well. Ditto with the squad, losing the on-field and off-field leadership and experience of Rio, Vidic, and Evra was always going to leave us struggling at the back. So the fact that we haven't won a game thus far isn't hugely surprising, LVG is having to gel together a whole new squad.

I don't share a lot of the pessimism expressed on here. Cast your mind back to De Gea signing. His first 6-8 months at the club were like a microcosm of what's going on now at the club. It was clear he was a talented player but he struggled big time when he started out. He's now one of our most important players, it just took a while for his class to shine through and find his feet. LVG is clearly an excellent manager with experience at the highest level and he is managing a squad that whilst at the moment not playing good football has a lot of talent. Once all the signings start to bed in and our players come to grips with the new game plan I think United will be a much different proposition for opposition teams.

Make no mistake this is the biggest transition the club has been through his SAF took over and it was never going to be plain sailing. I think the most important thing for the club now is to stick to their guns and persist. Persist with the game plan, the players, the manager. You look at a club like Tottenhan. A constant revolving door of managers reminds me of that old saying "don't confuse motion with progress, a rocking horse doesn't stop moving but goes nowhere." Tottenham constantly change managers and as a result they go no where.

I'm definitely optimistic that LVG can get us back to challenging for the title in the three years he is with us.
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Well stated, and I agree. I also think so many on the Caf might suffer from what I'd only be able to describe as an "internet hangover" from last season. I really, really hoped we'd see a turnaround last season, and I felt I was one of the last to finally give into the pessimism regarding our former manager. Patience is a virtue, except on the Caf. Those of us who advocated patience last season were roundly, and in the end, rightly, condemned. I won't bend though. I'd rather persist with my belief that quality football takes time than succumb to those who believe that taking the safe route of being negative and pessimistic on a football forum gives you the right to say, "I told you so."
 
feck our soul and identity I want the premier league title back

Then the CL.
 
langster said:
If you read through the threads in here a lot of what you see is moaning and whining and threads about United losing their identity and soul etc. It's almost as depressing as listening to Episode 4 of the podcast. :lol:
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:lol:
 
sajeev said:
we haven't really had a great window. not addressed midfield at all apart from another Felliani-like signing. And we have gone full-on short-termist by paying for a mercenary whose demands no-one was able to meet. We seem to have manager who in his present role seems to be afraid of dropping big names, and is just going by reputation.

It isn't nauseating.

What is nauseating is banging on about midfield, and then jumping for joy just because the management has tried to boost its own ego by going for big names, without any viable plan as to fit everyone.

It is nauseating that being told how you you have to feel about the actions of the club. The fact that you think that this has been a productive window, doesn't mean everyone has to feel that way. Just because you are swayed by the names, not everybody has to. So get off your high horse and stop labeling what you don't understand.
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What a load of pessimistic negative rubbish.
 
ninety said:
The pessimism on here has definitely surprised me when you consider the changes that have occurred at the club in the last 18 months. The following people have left the club: Sir Alex, David Gill, all the coaches Steele, Rene, Phelan, Scholes, Giggs, Rio, Vidic, & Evra. All that experience leaving from all levels of the club.

The club was always going to struggle, like it or not. If there is anything that has been handled by the club badly I would say it was that such a transition occurred so suddenly. So much experience walking out the door in such a short period of time was always going to hurt us. The club really should've planned the Gill/SAF exit better, i.e. have SAF retire, then when the new manager is settled, let Gill go as well. Ditto with the squad, losing the on-field and off-field leadership and experience of Rio, Vidic, and Evra was always going to leave us struggling at the back. So the fact that we haven't won a game thus far isn't hugely surprising, LVG is having to gel together a whole new squad.

I don't share a lot of the pessimism expressed on here. Cast your mind back to De Gea signing. His first 6-8 months at the club were like a microcosm of what's going on now at the club. It was clear he was a talented player but he struggled big time when he started out. He's now one of our most important players, it just took a while for his class to shine through and find his feet. LVG is clearly an excellent manager with experience at the highest level and he is managing a squad that whilst at the moment not playing good football has a lot of talent. Once all the signings start to bed in and our players come to grips with the new game plan I think United will be a much different proposition for opposition teams.

Make no mistake this is the biggest transition the club has been through his SAF took over and it was never going to be plain sailing. I think the most important thing for the club now is to stick to their guns and persist. Persist with the game plan, the players, the manager. You look at a club like Tottenhan. A constant revolving door of managers reminds me of that old saying "don't confuse motion with progress, a rocking horse doesn't stop moving but goes nowhere." Tottenham constantly change managers and as a result they go no where.

I'm definitely optimistic that LVG can get us back to challenging for the title in the three years he is with us.
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You can't stop people leaving for personal reasons, and unexpectedly as with SAF and Gill. The squad management and succession planning has been a travesty for at least 5 years, something that lies at the foot of the manager, CFO, and board.
 
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