UK Riots (with the exception of Manchester which has its own thread)

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Looted her own shop
 
You don't think an unequal society has a lot to do with it?

I doubt you'll hear many Oxbridge accents hanging out on street corners in Hackney tonight.

And regarding your point about why not everybody with a tough start in life turns to crime, that's just common sense. Of course it's possible to lead a virtuous life despite being dealt a shit hand, just less likely, that's all.

Society has always been unequal, but it is this generation who are the beneficiaries of one of the most generous social covenants in the world - previous generations did not get anything close or even dream of getting the life chances that kids get now. There are people in their fifties who were born into slums, I'm sure they would have loved housing benefit for a decent home or a student loan to get the chance to go to university - but they didn't and they got on with it.
 
Society has always been unequal, but it is this generation who are the beneficiaries of one of the most generous social covenants in the world - previous generations did not get anything close or even dream of getting the life chances that kids get now. There are people in their fifties who were born into slums, I'm sure they would have loved housing benefit for a decent home or a student loan to get the chance to go to university - but they didn't and they got on with it.

Apart from when they rioted themselves, you mean?

I know you're barely out of your teens but you seem intent on a career in politics, so should really brush up on your history.
 
You don't think an unequal society has a lot to do with it?

I doubt you'll hear many Oxbridge accents hanging out on street corners in Hackney tonight.

You can blame society all you want, and as I say I agree to a large extent

Yep, I'd agree with that, not as it being the total cause though,

And regarding your point about why not everybody with a tough start in life turns to crime, that's just common sense. Of course it's possible to lead a virtuous life despite being dealt a shit hand, just less likely, that's all.
If its possible to lead a virtuous life but less likely, what factors make it less likely for some as opposed to others?

Blaming society puts the locus of control totally outside the individual.

Tell people who come from bad areas that they're not responsible, that its 100% societies fault and they're more likely to adopt that attitude and fail to recognise that society has many levels and the best way to ensure a successful society is to recognise and accept your responsibility to your family, your local community and as a result greater society.

That doesn't mean you can't be pissed off that you have nothing while others are on easy street but it may stop people destroying their local communities.

Look at people and attitudes during the blitz, many who went through it welcomed the sense of community involvement it evoked, everyone working together towards a common good rather than each being out for their own and robbing their neighbours. We've all heard it referred to as the best of times and the worst of times..... how much harder would it have been had people just blamed the government and not come to terms with prospering in the worst scenario you can imagine.
 
Society has always been unequal, but it is this generation who are the beneficiaries of one of the most generous social covenants in the world - previous generations did not get anything close or even dream of getting the life chances that kids get now. There are people in their fifties who were born into slums, I'm sure they would have loved housing benefit for a decent home or a student loan to get the chance to go to university - but they didn't and they got on with it.

It's funny you should mention them as the Baby Boom generation, the feeling of entitlement when every advert has been aimed at them and is still aimed at them since their birth. And why would they want a student loan when they had it free? And they still rioted too.

I realise what I said might not be quiet what you meant.
 
If its possible to lead a virtuous life but less likely, what factors make it less likely for some as opposed to others?

Blaming society puts the locus of control totally outside the individual.

Tell people who come from bad areas that they're not responsible, that its 100% societies fault and they're more likely to adopt that attitude and fail to recognise that society has many levels and the best way to ensure a successful society is to recognise and accept your responsibility to your family, your local community and as a result greater society.

That doesn't mean you can't be pissed off that you have nothing while others are on easy street but it may stop people destroying their local communities.

Look at people and attitudes during the blitz, many who went through it welcomed the sense of community involvement it evoked, everyone working together towards a common good rather than each being out for their own and robbing their neighbours.

Eh? What's with the straw man?

Where did I say that society is 100% responsible, or that individual responsibility doesn't come into it at all?
 
West Ham game is cancelled, England game will be off as well I think.
 
Good man. Write an angry letter to Points of View about Rhianna while you're at it. Kill two birds with one stone.

Let's just all feel a bit more sorry for young people who grow up on estates and try to properly understand why they are not looting books shops but Curry's and Footlockers.
 
I'm taking a coach from London Victoria to Manchester tomorrow morning, and am getting the coach from Basildon to Victoria prior to this.

Am I gonna be safe, then? :lol:

I have no idea where London Victoria actually is, so forgive the ignorance if it is nowhere near the action.
 
It's funny you should mention them as the Baby Boom generation, the feeling of entitlement when every advert has been aimed at them and is still aimed at them since their birth. And why would they want a student loan when they had it free? And they still rioted too.

I realise what I said might not be quiet what you meant.

They had it free but how many went to university? How many had the chance to do A-Levels? How many left school at 15 and then when it was raised to 16?

The housing stock in the cities into the sixties still contained more than their fair share of slums, there were next to no benefits at all.
 
I'm taking a coach from London Victoria to Manchester tomorrow morning, and am getting the coach from Basildon to Victoria prior to this.

Am I gonna be safe, then? :lol:

Just wear a hood and balaclava, you'll be fine.
 
I'm taking a coach from London Victoria to Manchester tomorrow morning, and am getting the coach from Basildon to Victoria prior to this.

Am I gonna be safe, then? :lol:

I have no idea where London Victoria actually is, so forgive the ignorance if it is nowhere near the action.

You *should* be OK. It's a pretty central area, and there won't be any trouble in the morning
 
I might join in, actually. I need a TV for uni next year.
 
I'm taking a coach from London Victoria to Manchester tomorrow morning, and am getting the coach from Basildon to Victoria prior to this.

Am I gonna be safe, then? :lol:

I have no idea where London Victoria actually is, so forgive the ignorance if it is nowhere near the action.

Victoria is in Westminster, it is very close to Buckingham Palace.
 
Holy shit if these rioters have fecked up United's chance of stealing Sneijder after the match at Wembley I'm going to go and solve this the only way AdZz knows how.

By bringing the drama like a fecking Shakespearean hurricane.
 
Maybe if you had read the article you quoted, it was a racism thing. Plus it did not spread across wide parts of the city as a chance to burn random buildings, vehicles, and loot whatever you can get your hands on.

A racism thing?

The Conservative Party government elected in 1979 had instituted new powers for the Police under the Vagrancy Act of 1824 to stop and search people based on only a 'reasonable suspicion' that an offence had been committed — hence their common name of "Sus laws". These were applied disproportionately to the black community, and caused widespread resentment amongst young black men.

Going out on a limb here but there seems to be a bit of a common theme between the riots today and those from 30 years ago.

That's not my point though. I was challenging your absurdly nostalgic drivel about everyone aged over 50 spending their lives as model citizens, despite enduring terrible hardship.
 
Some of my mates been kept on at work.

Been on since 1300 hours, meant to finish at 2300 hours and are now have to stay on until 0700.
 
Eh? What's with the straw man?

Where did I say that society is 100% responsible, or that individual responsibility doesn't come into it at all?

All you've pointed to is the discrepency between the have's and have nots Pogue, how its growing up in ghettos that is the root cause of the attitudes that are being displayed.
 
To be honest, that really does look like one.

Question is how the feck did it get there?

Also what was it's connection with Mr Duggan?
 
They had it free but how many went to university? How many had the chance to do A-Levels? How many left school at 15 and then when it was raised to 16?

The housing stock in the cities into the sixties still contained more than their fair share of slums, there were next to no benefits at all.

Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you there. These people aren't rioting because of lack of opportunities, they are rioting because they where promised that they would all be rich and they won't. They are materialistic hence the theft, they don't know why they hate the world which is the case for a lot of people.
 
All you've pointed to is the discrepency between the have's and have nots Pogue, how its growing up in ghettos that is the root cause of the attitudes that are being displayed.

Ok yeah, well I stand by that.

It's not the only cause but it shouldn't be brushed under the carpet with sniffy comments about immigration or claims that this would never have happened back in t'day.
 
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Charlton against Reading has also been postponed on police advice