UK Riots (with the exception of Manchester which has its own thread)

MikeUpNorth said:
It's a bit early to start diagnosing the root causes for why thousands of young people are looting, and it clearly isn't overtly political in any way - people have seen an opportunity for a bit of looting and madness and grasped it... however I can't dismiss the fact we have record levels of youth unemployment, and ever widening inequality. My instinct is that if government isn't prepared to redistribute the wealth in society, people will begin to do it themselves, and just take what they please.
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I don't want to diagnose the root causes - if anything, I don't think there are one or two reasons for this.

However, I'm not surprised this happened. Growing up in inner London I was surrounded by a culture of, to put it bluntly, getting respect for dodgy deals and gaining 'freebies', and a huge emphasis upon expensive goods and kudos to those who own them. This was engrained in gang culture there, but it has got much worse over the past decade from what I know.

Whether it was social exclusion, deprivation, anger at the police that was the catalyst, the situation is bordering on anarchical. See the quotes in this piece:

Looting 'fuelled by social exclusion' | UK news | The Guardian
 
MikeUpNorth said:
It's a bit early to start diagnosing the root causes for why thousands of young people are looting, and it clearly isn't overtly political in any way - people have seen an opportunity for a bit of looting and madness and grasped it... however I can't dismiss the fact we have record levels of youth unemployment, and ever widening inequality. My instinct is that if government isn't prepared to redistribute the wealth in society, people will begin to do it themselves, and just take what they please.
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What people? So far I haven't heard one intelligent, coherent argument from a single youth who participated in the riots as to why they are trashing their own community.
 
There's a kudos to owning expensive things virtually everywhere. Decent people work for them though.
 
Mihajlovic said:
What people? So far I haven't heard one intelligent, coherent argument from a single youth who participated in the riots as to why they are trashing their own community.
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The people doing the looting.

If course they're not going to have a coherent, intelligent argument for what they're doing. They're just kids. Not a fecking political party.
 
PJ said:
If innocent lives are taken, as seems very likely, then yes. These cnuts want violence, let's give them it.
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So you're ok with all the people getting shot by the British army in the North over the years? I mean there's a lot of cnuts there that want violence too. Not everyone but meh, who's counting.
 
I didn't get a chance to catch the news before work this morning, have things calmed down since last night?
 
PJ said:
Yip pogue, exact same thing.
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Well we're discussing the policing of violent thugs and you seem to think the best way to deal with this is to wade in with all guns blazing. Would have thought you might have a bit more perspective, having been brought up with armed soldiers patrolling the streets.
 
How many police are actually being deployed whilst all this is going on? Are they stretched to the limit?

Can they not get support from other nearby counties if so?

Christ we had 5000 police on duty for the Royal Wedding.
 
CassiusClaymore said:
How many police are actually being deployed whilst all this is going on? Are they stretched to the limit?

Can they not get support from other nearby counties if so?

Christ we had 5000 police on duty for the Royal Wedding.
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All the Met, plus office staff, plus surrounding forces. All the jail cells in the capital are full and emergency calls are 15 times normal volume. All police on leave are back voluntarily too.
 
Frosty said:
All the Met, plus office staff, plus surrounding forces. All the jail cells in the capital are full and emergency calls are 15 times normal volume. All police on leave are back voluntarily too.
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Thanks Frosty.

Just asking because I have a few friends in the police up here and they are more than willing to travel.
 
CassiusClaymore said:
Thanks Frosty.

Just asking because I have a few friends in the police up here and they are more than willing to travel.
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Apparently they've already offered their services.

My colleague Helen Clifton in Manchester has been speaking to Greater Manchester police, who are stressing that the trouble in Salford last night — which saw four or five cars damaged — was not connected with the riots elsewhere in the country. They say it was the kind of thing they are used to, adding that they remain ready to offer back-up to the Met if it is required.
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The Met sound as though they're really struggling. They've been stretched to the limit in the last 48 hours.

The Met have admitted that their reinforcements "box was empty" last night, meaning the overstretched force had to send non-specialist officers sent to deal with rioters.

Pc Paul Deller, who was based in the control room co-ordinating the force's response to the violence, has told BBC Radio 4's Today programme:

We simply ran out of units to send. That's not something we would normally expose those officers to a risk of, but last night decisions were made that we had to and that's what we did. We threw everything we had at it."

Pc Deller, who chairs the Met's Constables' Federation, denied the "terrifying" scenes showed police had given up trying to protect property:

We didn't surrender the streets. Over 50 of my colleagues were injured last night defending those streets to the best of their capability. I don't think at any point did we surrender."
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MikeUpNorth said:
It's a bit early to start diagnosing the root causes for why thousands of young people are looting, and it clearly isn't overtly political in any way - people have seen an opportunity for a bit of looting and madness and grasped it... however I can't dismiss the fact we have record levels of youth unemployment, and ever widening inequality. My instinct is that if government isn't prepared to redistribute the wealth in society, people will begin to do it themselves, and just take what they please.
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If the unequal distribution of wealth is coupled with an upbringing that focuses pretty much solely on materialism, instant gratification, looking out for number 1 and is without a sense of community involvement or respect.
 
why are they so reluctant to have the army on the streets , it has got to be better than the normal beat bobby who is not trained to deal with the level of violence we saw last night.
All the looters and rioters are all tucked up in bed now , while London is cleaned up.
The Police and Fire and Ambulance services dont have the chance to rest , get the army out and get them out now.
My fear is that tonight could be worse.
 
Eyepopper said:
If the unequal distribution of wealth is coupled with an upbringing that focuses pretty much solely on materialism, instant gratification, looking out for number 1 and is without a sense of community involvement or respect.
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An upbringing that iseems to be shared by everyone from that generation, whether they're brought up in a tower block or a Georgian town-house.

Funnily enough, you're unlikely to see kids in the latter category breaking into Currys to get a lap-top. They know mummy and daddy will buy it for them.
 
just been reading the last pages and wanted to make a point

Having no jobs is not an excuse for wanton violence and destruction. Its nothing more than young fellas using it to get their kicks, like hooligans in the 80's.

Need a job? I know, lets burn down the local businesses! Idiots. I have no sympathy at all for those out on the streets "rioting"
 
The simple fact is that for many in the current generation having to work is seen as a waste of time anyway, time that could be better spent enjoying the 'stuff' they feel they are entitled to.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
why are they so reluctant to have the army on the streets , it has got to be better than the normal beat bobby who is not trained to deal with the level of violence we saw last night.
All the looters and rioters are all tucked up in bed now , while London is cleaned up.
The Police and Fire and Ambulance services dont have the chance to rest , get the army out and get them out now.
My fear is that tonight could be worse.
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so given the reaction and retaliation to the police using what little force they have so far, you think the best possible thing to do is get the army on the streets?

it wouldn't stop anything, it'd just escalate.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
It's a bit early to start diagnosing the root causes for why thousands of young people are looting, and it clearly isn't overtly political in any way - people have seen an opportunity for a bit of looting and madness and grasped it... however I can't dismiss the fact we have record levels of youth unemployment, and ever widening inequality. My instinct is that if government isn't prepared to redistribute the wealth in society, people will begin to do it themselves, and just take what they please.
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Yes, the scum will.

The decent young people who also happen to be unemployed, poor and deprived will be shaking their heads at these scenes in disgust.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
An upbringing that iseems to be shared by everyone from that generation, whether they're brought up in a tower block or Georgian a town-house.

Funnily enough, you're unlikely to see kids in the latter category breaking into Currys to get a lap-top. They know mummy and daddy will buy it for them.
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No but you are far more likely to see them have other problems. Depression is one of the fastest growing ailments of the middle classes, suicide one of the biggest causes of death, could that be because they simply get the stuff they want and still find that somethings missing?

If its simply a matter of unequal distribution of wealth then why are the haves not living in bliss? Why are issues like self harm, substance abuse, depression, suicide etc all on the increase in 'have' societies?

As for a shared upbringing, each family is totally different, they dont share an upbrining, how they interpret the world around them is guided by how they are raised.
 
I've never seen anything like this in my time.

I'm amazed at how it's snowballed.

Police in a real catch-twenty-two situation. Look how the country has kicked off, stemming from a man being shot at the weekend. They can't really risk fighting fire with fire, for risk of exacerbating the situation.

Sad, sad state of affairs. The looters should feel thoroughly ashamed.
 
Lets not mix this up wealth and social exclusion. If people were acting out over that then it wouldn't be at the destruction of their local community but aimed at government buildings. This is about consumerism and the ability to take what you want without reprisals.
 
gambit28 said:
Lets not mix this up wealth and social exclusion. If people were acting out over that then it wouldn't be at the destruction of their local community but aimed at government buildings. This is about consumerism and the ability to take what you want without reprisals.
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bingo!
 
gambit28 said:
Lets not mix this up wealth and social exclusion. If people were acting out over that then it wouldn't be at the destruction of their local community but aimed at government buildings. This is about consumerism and the ability to take what you want without reprisals.
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Yep.

Gratuitous violence and looting under the guise of protest.
 
I'm with Blunder and Popper on this, have zero sympathy for the idiots behind these crimes. They couldn't give two shits about how they feel politically isolated and what have you, they're just doing it for the kicks and because its fun and an easy way to get expensive gear they feel they're entitled to.

Kids these days is an overused cliche, but seriously I have to work with a fair few and whilst they're not all the same, the bad apples of this generation have zero human empathy and non existent moral compasses, let alone offer a coherent rational explanation as to why they feel they had to riot and what political point they were trying to make.
 
The message that has been sent ou by the police is the worst thing of the lot. Ransack and steal what you want, then set things alight and we will just watch.
 
gregwar said:
so given the reaction and retaliation to the police using what little force they have so far, you think the best possible thing to do is get the army on the streets?

it wouldn't stop anything, it'd just escalate.
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Yes that is a risk , but is it any more of a risk letting the looters and rioters loose to do what they want.
There is not enough Police on the streets so let the Army help out.
 
While the majority are kids, I can't help but feel a few opportunist adults will be partly involved. I think it's dangerous to exclude them in situations like this because there is no focus on adults and therefore theres a blind spot there
 
Feed Me said:
I've never seen anything like this in my time.

I'm amazed at how it's snowballed.

Police in a real catch-twenty-two situation. Look how the country has kicked off, stemming from a man being shot at the weekend. They can't really risk fighting fire with fire, for risk of exacerbating the situation.

Sad, sad state of affairs. The looters should feel thoroughly ashamed.
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If they had the capacity to feel shame then they wouldn't be looting in the first instance.
 
Feed Me said:
Yep.

Gratuitous violence and looting under the guise of protest.
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I don't think even the looters are using the protest line. The guy who was shot has nothing to do with it. I think updaing your facbook status could be seen as more of a cause.
 
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