Name me a game where he played to the levels he's reached in the past. There is none, unless your expectations of Gerrard have plummeted to the gutter. Even his two goal salvo at Old Trafford in the 3-2 was a tragic performance sugar-coated by two set piece goals, and apart from that game he was a near non-factor until Hodgson was sacked.
FAO Dumpstar, regarding Meireles
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Name me a game where he played to the levels he's reached in the past. There is none, unless your expectations of Gerrard have plummeted to the gutter. Even his two goal salvo at Old Trafford in the 3-2 was a tragic performance sugar-coated by two set piece goals, and apart from that game he was a near non-factor until Hodgson was sacked.
Johnson could be moved on if he loses his place to Enrique/Kelly. That's about as much as I can agree with.
If Reina and Suarez leave for greener pastures it's not exactly a sign of a revolving door policy though, as those are players we'll want to keep.
He was brilliant against us in the FA Cup game
Is a fair point, but is just a part of the high number of players coming and going every year.
Fierce negative there.
You could do the same for most teams outside of yourselves, Chelsea and City at the minute.
Then you could look at potential positives. Liverpool could finish top 4. Suarez and Reina sign new contracts. Adam Henderson and Lucas gel in midfield with Downing and Carroll improving as players and getting a few goals. Coats settling in England to make a good few appearances and impress in them.
Depends on your opinion though and if the glass is half full or not.
In fairness to Liverpool, the high number of comings and goings is to do with the managerial instability they've had aswell as Rafa's itchy trigger finger when he was there. Now that Dalglish and Comolli are in place, they were always going to shape the squad to their own liking this summer, but I think we'll see a much less active Liverpool over the next few windows now that they've got that management structure and more or less the squad they want.
Liverpool really have signed some complete and utter flops over the years when you think about it. Considering they have spend a hell of alot of cash they sure do struggle to pick up gems.
And to think how United have this stigma regarding Veron, it is laughable.
For what it is worth I think they should have held onto Meireles. With rumors rife on Merseyside that Gerrard could well be finished, they will do well to get a midfielder with the engine and football brain of Meireles for 12 million quid.
And to think how United have this stigma regarding Veron, it is laughable.
For what it is worth I think they should have held onto Meireles. With rumors rife on Merseyside that Gerrard could well be finished, they will do well to get a midfielder with the engine and football brain of Meireles for 12 million quid.
But a realist can see we're just not there yet. We are in a group with Spurs and Arsenal at the minute behind a top 3 imho. The reason we are in this group is because Arsenal and spurs have let their level slip. We could finish better than the North Londoners but to break top 3 we need yourselves, Chelsea or City to have a poor run of form which judging by the quality on their books is not going to happen.
Off the top of my head: Napoli, Bolton, secured the draw against Sunderland.
Liverpool probably will finish top 4. Suarez probably will stay for a few years, how many will depend on who comes in for him and how sucessful Liverpool are in the next 2-3 years.
Adam, Henderson and Lucas can gel as much as they like, they will always be average footballers, and there will always be room for improvement on them.
Has Dumpstar addressed this thread yet?
Totally depends on how sucessful they are, in terms of their goals, and how the new players do.
In my opinion, they've bought a number of average players, like they have done throughout the last decade. And as a result, they will continue to look for players.
All true.
But speaking to a lot of your fans, you are now good enough to compete with ourselves, City and Chelsea.
Most of the players you have bought since Dalglish took over, are players you lot would have scoffed and laughed at 12 months ago, in the typical Liverpool fan superior manner.
Bolton? The same game I saw you scrimping and scraping in with not one ounce of creativity in your side, let alone your much adored skipper? So that's two half decent games during a 6 month torrent of shite.
I think their defence needs nothing done to it. Midfield is tricky to assess, Lucas is a good player and will be there a long time IMO but Gerrard is coming to the end I feel which will need some sorting now that they've sold a potential solution in Meireles, and they could do with a right sided player to avoid using Kuyt/Henderson out of position all the time. A lot depends on Henderson and whether he can fulfill his potential and how long it might take him to. They'll definately be active in the striker department over the next few seasons I feel, Bellamy is a stop-gap and the jury is still very much out on Carroll. Like Henderson, if he fulfills his potential then they probably won't change too much but if that ridiculously expensive pet project fails, then they'll probably have to go out and address that area again.
No arguments on that at the moment. Adam, Henderson and Lucas all have to deliver to prove themselves. I hope they do.
I dont think Liverpool fans in general have a right to scoff and laugh at many players because we have consistently failed to deliver in recent times.
When I heard we'd signed Suarez and Carroll in January I was a bit worried not by the price tag of Carroll or the fact that he's unproven but mainly because both have displayed discipline problems in the past. I think both have a point to prove and I hope they deliver. I'm quite happy with the signings of Henderson and Downing. Henderson because he represents investment in the future and Downing because he is a proven league performer.
I hope these can work together and push us up to 4th this year but when you look at the quality and depth of the top three you really need a crisis to hit one of those clubs for us to get close.
Personally, I think Suarez is superb, and a bit of a bargain.
Adam I think will be a decent player for you lot. With the right players around him + his set pieces, he is an asset - without never being a top class players. But a team does not a XI of world class players.
Henderson and Carroll - don't think they are good enough for the level you are aiming for.
Downing is neither this nor that. Does a job, nothing more.
This season I think Lucas will surprise a few people. He and Adam are a tough midfield and wont lose too many physical battles. I think they will do well this year but will be found wanting against the teams with physically strong and technically gifted players ie. the top 3. Henderson needs a year to bed in and establish himself but I think Downing will deliver a good few assists and knock in a few goals from the wing. Carroll is under pressure for me though. If he doesnt deliver at least 10 goals by January I think Dalglish will go looking for another promising centre forward.
Team Brian, just saw this thread and its fair enough. You can also choose to follow Pogue's opinions of me, calling me unintelligent, etc. He's been following me for years. Says all you need to know about him more than me.
In reply to your original post:
Yes I did say he was the stand out player in Bodgson's charge. He was a ray of light alongside names such as Poulsen, Cole, Jovanovic, Ngog and a confused Maxi. That opinion has only recently changed (as opinions do) - the highlight being the pussying out of a challenge with Fabio (that twin I think) against manutd. After his glut of goals and purple patch he started becoming a bit of a wilting flower.
Not saying he started becoming a poor footballer, his ability is good enough for Chelsea no doubt. A bit like Benayoun's when you bought him. Its just that I don't think he's what Chelsea need right now, just like Benayoun wasn't then.
Due to his contract situation (he was due a significant payrise) and his inability to be in the first 11 for Dalglish didn't justify it. He handed his transfer request in for two reason IMO:
1. Payrise - we said no, not justified
2. More playing time - Dalglish said no, not good enough to warrant a starting position.
Had we considered him good enough it wouldn't have taken much for us to agree to both of the above. He just didn't prove that to be the case for a top four challenging team (not a relegation fighting Bodgson team).
In reply to your original post:
Yes I did say he was the stand out player in Bodgson's charge. He was a ray of light alongside names such as Poulsen, Cole, Jovanovic, Ngog and a confused Maxi. That opinion has only recently changed (as opinions do) - the highlight being the pussying out of a challenge with Fabio (that twin I think) against manutd. After his glut of goals and purple patch he started becoming a bit of a wilting flower.
Not saying he started becoming a poor footballer, his ability is good enough for Chelsea no doubt. A bit like Benayoun's when you bought him. Its just that I don't think he's what Chelsea need right now, just like Benayoun wasn't then.
Due to his contract situation (he was due a significant payrise) and his inability to be in the first 11 for Dalglish didn't justify it. He handed his transfer request in for two reason IMO:
1. Payrise - we said no, not justified
2. More playing time - Dalglish said no, not good enough to warrant a starting position.
Had we considered him good enough it wouldn't have taken much for us to agree to both of the above. He just didn't prove that to be the case for a top four challenging team (not a relegation fighting Bodgson team).
Agree on Suarez and Adam. Carroll and Henderson are still very young and I think with guidance from Dalglish they could really develop but again only time will tell and fairly hefty price tags will do them no favours.
Downing I like for the very reason that for a good player he tends to go under the radar a bit. I like him for his consistency but it is crucial that a player like Adam get him into the game instead of him being able to grab a game by the scruff of the neck. That's the main reason why I think we'll struggle against the better midfields. With Adam and Lucas fighting it out in the middle players like Downing and henderson could go missing on the wings.
As you and TeamBrian are out for genuine reassurances (unlike the wummerers who have had this point whooshed above their heads) Meireles will not give you this. He hasn't given this to Dalglish so far.
Thus short of the 100% commitment comment I made earlier. (Thus no guaranteed starting place for him under Kenny, thus no improved contract. Thus transfer request)
Dumpster, did you really claim that Dalglish demands more from his players than any other manager?
Didn't Dumpstar just mean that Dalglish is an old fashioned, man-manager style guy? I guessed that's what he meant - that he sends his players out pumped-up and inspired to play for Liverpool.
No I didn't. That would be stupid.
From what I've read it would seem that Meireles wasnt fully committed to giving his all for Liverpool so the manager sold him. Not shocking really.
A little surprising this one as Liverpool didn't even make much of a profit. Wasn't there something in Meireles contract that meant his wages would go up this season though?
If Liverpool really promised to give him a payrise after a year and reengaged on it, I can't blame him for not wanting to play for the club anymore.
If it was written into his contract and he didnt get it then he could sue them.
We haven't signed anyone called Adams. You must be getting us mixed up with someone else.
That's your opinion. Henderson has got a lot of time ahead of him to prove you wrong and to show us what he's got, and Adam may well turn out to be a super signing for what he can offer. His set piece delivery alone will be valuable as we haven't had a corner clear the first man in about 5 years.
He was really, really good................for about 6 weeks. I liked him, and he scored some important goals, but he was never really, really good for us.
There's the magic word, "fringe". We've signed 7 players who will improve the first team squad and got rid of a dozen players who won't even get a game. Getting rid of those players has apparently shaven £25m off the wage bill over the terms of those contracts. Not being in Europe should mean we can cope ok with injuries this season.
The dreaded p word "potential". Just like Tosic, and many others who have been deemed top signings but shifted on in a couple of seasons.
I can't argue with that recently but it is a different regime now and I think the signings made this summer have strengthened the core squad allowinig us to concentrate on quality when we get back in the CL spots this year.
If you don't think the players we have brought in in January and this window are better collectively than the players we have shifted then I'm afraid you don't know as much about football as I gave you credit for.
Can't argue with the first 2 points. Henderson and Carroll have certainly got a lot to prove but they have plenty of time to do so.
Downing on the other hand is going to be a superstar for us. There I've said it.
Of course it's my opinion. Who else's opinion would it be if I'm saying it on a forum?
Taking it as a given?
Well, with your track record here on the Caf, who am I to argue
I'm just looking for a new tagline
Oh ok then. That was obviously the most important part of my reply to you.
I'm just looking for a new tagline
But seriously though, what on earth is your definition of a superstar?
If you mean a good signing, yeah possible.
From what I understood, it was a handshake agreement under the former owners.
No one in the new administration thought he deserved that kind of hike though.
I don't really blame Raul for wanting away, but I don't blame the club for not wanting to make him one of our top earners either.