Evra accuses Suarez of racist remarks | Suarez guilty of racial abuse

MikeUpNorth said:
Except he went to the media, not the police.

I agree with what Pogue said earlier that this would probably have been better handled by reporting it to the referee (or the actual police) privately and letting the investigation happen rather than making all the allegations public.
Click to expand...

That's wasn't the point though was it?

Anyway he did report it to the referee after the game, and this sort of thing will always end up in the papers whether Evra spoke to them or not.
 
w'or bobby said:
Excellent article.
Paddy is almost certainly telling the truth and Suarez lying about this, mind.
Click to expand...

I think the article corrects those who are misrepresenting Evra, but I do kinda wonder if there hasn't been something lost in translation though.

In French, "noir" is neutral (according to Wikipedia) and "negre" is racist colonial usage.

In Spanish, "negro" is the neutral word for a black man (again according to Wikipedia).

Now the n-word sounds a lot like "negro" especially during the back and forth on a football pitch. Neither player has a particularly great command or pronunciation of English, especially Suarez whom I'm not sure even speaks much English. And in English "negro" is offensive which is something Evra would be more likely to know.

Again according to Wikipedia, "However, in Spanish-speaking countries such as Argentina, Chile, and Uruguay where there are few people of African origin and appearance, negro (negra for females) is commonly used to refer to partners, close friends[13] or people in general independent of skin color."

So having heard Evra's pronunciation and guessing at Suarez's I can easily imagine how something may have been lost in translation in this whole business.
 
Peasplease said:
Not really. If what Evra said is 100% true, then Suarez said it to annoy Evra. Implying Suarez probably didn't mean what he was saying. If you want to ignore that logic that's fine but is doesn't make Suarez a "de facto racist" in the world of reality.

Definition of racism in case you forgot:

rac·ism
n.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
Click to expand...
Your assumption that he 'probably' didn't mean it is odd and illogical, at best. I'm sorry but if you do things that are racist by nature then in all likelihood you are racist or at least deserve to be perceieved as such. Don't want to be seen as a prick of a human that discriminates on the basis of caste, color etc? Then don't make those racist comments in the first place! It's not fecking rocket science.
 
Ferguson said:
I think the article corrects those who are misrepresenting Evra, but I do kinda wonder if there hasn't been something lost in translation though.

In French, "noir" is neutral (according to Wikipedia) and "negre" is racist colonial usage.

In Spanish, "negro" is the neutral word for a black man (again according to Wikipedia).

Now the n-word sounds a lot like "negro" especially during the back and forth on a football pitch. Neither player has a particularly great command or pronunciation of English, especially Suarez whom I'm not sure even speaks much English. And in English "negro" is offensive which is something Evra would be more likely to know.

Again according to Wikipedia, "However, in Spanish-speaking countries such as Argentina, Chile, and Uruguay where there are few people of African origin and appearance, negro (negra for females) is commonly used to refer to partners, close friends[13] or people in general independent of skin color."

So having heard Evra's pronunciation and guessing at Suarez's I can easily imagine how something may have been lost in translation in this whole business.
Click to expand...

Except for the fact that even if Suarez was telling Paddy he is negro,.
he is at least a dumn feck and probably racist
En Francais, negre c'est negre..

En Espagnol, - same shit.

Vediamo but Paddy is honest and the other dude has previous
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Your assumption that he 'probably' didn't mean it is odd and illogical, at best. I'm sorry but if you do things that are racist by nature then in all likelihood you are racist or at least deserve to be perceieved as such. Don't want to be seen as a prick of a human that discriminates on the basis of caste, color etc? Then don't make those racist comments in the first place! It's not fecking rocket science.
Click to expand...

My assumption isn't odd or illogical because when people attempt to aggravate others they say things that will aggravate, regardless of (perceived) truthfulness. I used to call my sister "hump nose" because the tip of her nose resembled a slight hump, because it annoyed her, even though it looks completely fine. Have you ever said something to someone you didn't mean to annoy them?

Evra said Suarez said it to piss him off (paraphrasing from one of the interviews I read) so it's pretty dumb to completely disregard the probability of him not meaning what he allegedly said.

Unfortunately you don't have the power to decide what constitutes as a racist, so if the situation I just outlined is correct, then he is not a de facto racist.
 
Peasplease said:
My assumption isn't odd or illogical because when people attempt to aggravate others they say things that will aggravate, regardless of (perceived) truthfulness. I used to call my sister "hump nose" because the tip of her nose resembled a slight hump, because it annoyed her, even though it looks completely fine. Have you ever said something to someone you didn't mean to annoy them?

Evra said Suarez said it to piss him off (paraphrasing from one of the interviews I read) so it's pretty dumb to completely disregard the probability of him not meaning what he allegedly said.

Unfortunately you don't have the power to decide what constitutes as a racist, so if the situation I just outlined is correct, then he is not a de facto racist.
Click to expand...
It's one thing to call someone big nose and totally different to annoy by being racist
 
"I have got plenty to say on the subject, but I suppose I will have to adhere to what they are saying.

"I would like to say something about Pat in this particular instance, but let them get on with their investigation."
Click to expand...

Is anybody else getting the feeling that Fergie is angry by something and wants to let out?
 
Peasplease said:
My assumption isn't odd or illogical because when people attempt to aggravate others they say things that will aggravate, regardless of (perceived) truthfulness. I used to call my sister "hump nose" because the tip of her nose resembled a slight hump, because it annoyed her, even though it looks completely fine. Have you ever said something to someone you didn't mean to annoy them?

Evra said Suarez said it to piss him off (paraphrasing from one of the interviews I read) so it's pretty dumb to completely disregard the probability of him not meaning what he allegedly said.

Unfortunately you don't have the power to decide what constitutes as a racist, so if the situation I just outlined is correct, then he is not a de facto racist.
Click to expand...

You're complete point is illogical because it is only one of many possibilities which you seem to want to state as the most probable one.

Have you been inside Suarez's head to come to these illogical conclusions? Do you feel you can relate to him as a person? You haven't a clue as to whether the does those things that you do and even lesser of a clue whether this was one of those times.

I'm sorry but I say things I don't mean but I don't discriminate on the basis of race, religion, color etc. There is losing your cool and saying something you wouldn't otherwise and then there's saying something a few hundred levels below that.

And you pay for the feck ups you make. If I go around calling people from a certain section of society something that is racist, then I deserve to be treated as that.
 
'The Football Association has instructed Manchester United and Liverpool not to discuss or take any more questions on the racism dispute between Patrice Evra and Luis Suárez because of the potential for it to inflame relations between the two clubs.

Senior FA officials have contacted both clubs and asked for them not to talk about the matter while the investigation is under way into Evra's allegations that he was called a "n****r" at least ten times during the 1-1 draw at Anfield last Saturday.

.....

Evra made the allegation on French television and there are suggestions he will go on Canal Plus again on Sunday, though it is not clear whether he will discuss what happened with Suárez any further.'

FA tells clubs to keep quiet on Suárez-Evra racism row | The Guardian
 
SteveJ said:
'The Football Association has instructed Manchester United and Liverpool not to discuss or take any more questions on the racism dispute between Patrice Evra and Luis Suárez because of the potential for it to inflame relations between the two clubs.

Senior FA officials have contacted both clubs and asked for them not to talk about the matter while the investigation is under way into Evra's allegations that he was called a "n****r" at least ten times during the 1-1 draw at Anfield last Saturday.

.....

Evra made the allegation on French television and there are suggestions he will go on Canal Plus again on Sunday, though it is not clear whether he will discuss what happened with Suárez any further.'

FA tells clubs to keep quiet on Suárez-Evra racism row | The Guardian
Click to expand...

Is this after Daliglish's drivel I presume?
 
Yes, Erica. I presume that's why Sir Alex is angry.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Your assumption that he 'probably' didn't mean it is odd and illogical, at best. I'm sorry but if you do things that are racist by nature then in all likelihood you are racist or at least deserve to be perceieved as such. Don't want to be seen as a prick of a human that discriminates on the basis of caste, color etc? Then don't make those racist comments in the first place! It's not fecking rocket science.
Click to expand...

Very well put.

If somebody has racially abused somebody else I don't give a toss about going into the details of exactly what racist views they do or don't hold. As far as I'm concerned I treat all "racial abusers" as racists, and they're hardly in a position to complain about this.
 
Absolutely feckall will happen over this, you can already tell with the way it's being treated by the media etc.
 
Ferguson said:
I think the article corrects those who are misrepresenting Evra, but I do kinda wonder if there hasn't been something lost in translation though.

In French, "noir" is neutral (according to Wikipedia) and "negre" is racist colonial usage.

In Spanish, "negro" is the neutral word for a black man (again according to Wikipedia).

Now the n-word sounds a lot like "negro" especially during the back and forth on a football pitch. Neither player has a particularly great command or pronunciation of English, especially Suarez whom I'm not sure even speaks much English. And in English "negro" is offensive which is something Evra would be more likely to know.

Again according to Wikipedia, "However, in Spanish-speaking countries such as Argentina, Chile, and Uruguay where there are few people of African origin and appearance, negro (negra for females) is commonly used to refer to partners, close friends[13] or people in general independent of skin color."

So having heard Evra's pronunciation and guessing at Suarez's I can easily imagine how something may have been lost in translation in this whole business.
Click to expand...
'Black' is neutral in English too, but if you would say "shut up you black feck" in the heat of the moment during a football game, then it wouldn't be so neutral, now would it? Because you're using that persons skin colour as a weapon, regardless of what specific word you're using.

So even if Evra misheard "negro" for "nigger", it still counts as racism in that particular context.
 
Makki said:
'Black' is neutral in English too, but if you would say "shut up you black feck" in the heat of the moment during a football game, then it wouldn't be so neutral, now would it? Because you're using that persons skin colour as a weapon, regardless of what specific word you're using.

So even if Evra misheard "negro" for "nigger", it still counts as racism in that particular context.
Click to expand...

It's remarkable that people need this explaining to them... are there people of my grandma's generation posting in here or something?
 
EricaNo7 said:
I'm just wondering how this would have been perceived if it had been Rooney for example using the N word
Click to expand...

Rooney is an unusual example... I think a lot of people would shy away from throwing their full support behind him as, let's just say he's done some stupid things in the past and not always acted as we'd wish.

At the other end of the scale, if it was, say, Giggsy, I don't think many here would believe the allegations.

As has been discussed, previous behaviour is about all anybody has to go on when taking a view on how likely somebody id to have done something like this. Hence why Suarez is not getting much benefit of the doubt...
 
Sir A1ex said:
Rooney is an unusual example... I think a lot of people would shy away from throwing their full support behind him as, let's just say he's done some stupid things in the past and not always acted as we'd wish.

At the other end of the scale, if it was, say, Giggsy, I don't think many here would believe the allegations.

As has been discussed, previous behaviour is about all anybody has to go on when taking a view on how likely somebody id to have done something like this. Hence why Suarez is not getting much benefit of the doubt...
Click to expand...

I was wondering how the media would spin it if it was someone they already like to put the boot into
 
Sir A1ex said:
Rooney is an unusual example... I think a lot of people would shy away from throwing their full support behind him as, let's just say he's done some stupid things in the past and not always acted as we'd wish.

At the other end of the scale, if it was, say, Giggsy, I don't think many here would believe the allegations.

As has been discussed, previous behaviour is about all anybody has to go on when taking a view on how likely somebody id to have done something like this. Hence why Suarez is not getting much benefit of the doubt...
Click to expand...

With Giggs it would be incredibly unlikely given his background.
 
acnumber9 said:
With Giggs it would be incredibly unlikely given his background.
Click to expand...

:lol: I wonder how many fans are actually aware og Giggs' mixed race heritage.

I'm sure he was on the end of some racist abuse when he was younger
 
Makki said:
'Black' is neutral in English too, but if you would say "shut up you black feck" in the heat of the moment during a football game, then it wouldn't be so neutral, now would it? Because you're using that persons skin colour as a weapon, regardless of what specific word you're using.

So even if Evra misheard "negro" for "nigger", it still counts as racism in that particular context.
Click to expand...

I've seen some scousers say that "negro" is a friendly word in Argentina and used like "mate."

That is some verbal gymnastics right there.
 
Sir A1ex said:
Not many, but if my mum was Welsh, I'd keep it quiet too...:smirk:
Click to expand...

biggrin.gif
 
Players' union boss Gordon Taylor has been blocked from trying to broker a peace pact between racism-row duo Patrice Evra and Luis Suarez.

The Professional Footballers’ Association tried to intervene after it emerged that Liverpool striker Suarez is blaming a language and cultural barrier for the affair.

Manchester United defender Evra accused Liverpool's Uruguayan striker of racially abusing him during their clash a fortnight ago and told sources in France he called him a “n*****”

But the Mirror understands the row centres around the Spanish word “negro” having a different meaning culturally, and not being as offensive in that language as it is in English.

It is believed the bust-up started with the two men trading insults before it descended into name calling.

PFA chief executive Taylor said: “We always try to mediate in these situations. But now it’s the FA’s job to carry on with their investigation.”

Evra has insisted he wants to take the case all the way and the Football Association are investigating.

But Liverpool boss Kenny Dalglish has also been strong in his defence of Suarez and insists his striker is not a racist.

The PFA were hoping to bring the two together to stop the matter ending up with a full scale FA investigation.

Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson has admitted Evra wanted to take it all the way.

Liverpool have also said they will support Suarez and “categorically deny” he made offensive racist remarks.

Read more: PFA bid to make peace in racism row between Liverpools Luiz Suarez and Manchester Uniteds Patrice Evra has been blocked - News - MirrorFootball.co.uk
Click to expand...
...
 
Okay.. but say I was pissed off at another man with different skin colour than myself. Why would I call him a "coloured man", in the context of an argument between us? Why?

I don't really see the logic in that. Why drag that into the argument? Skin colour? Why at all? In what context could it be deemed NOT to be racist?

IMO Suarez defence, if he uses that cultural barrier thing, is about as good as John Terry's. I.E. non-existent.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.