Evra accuses Suarez of racist remarks | Suarez guilty of racial abuse

And with that my football forum career dies, not that it ever lived.

Ah well lad's nothing like someone coming in and stirring some controversy up for a debate on a lazy Thursday evening.
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
Don't be an idiot. I'm not defending Suarez. Take longer than two seconds to read before you spaz out.
Click to expand...

What you talking about AlwaysRedwood? I never quoted you. I suggest you read my post and see who I quoted and count to two as you say before spazzing out mate! :rolleyes:
 
KiD CaNtO said:
And with that my football forum career dies, not that it ever lived.

Ah well lad's nothing like someone coming in and stirring some controversy up for a debate on a lazy Thursday evening.
Click to expand...

Posting in a thread five days after an incident which has been discussed to death already only to repeat the same simple-minded bollocks and untrue versions of previous events that has already been written and/or said countless times by tossers up and down the land since Sunday is neither "Stirring up controversy for a debate" or "Making a point". Try reading some of the rest of the discussion, maybe.
 
Lawman said:
Feck me its this sort of attitude that aids a lot of abuse and stops it being reported. I'm not saying jump on Suarez but this is serious allegations and should be investigated fully.
Click to expand...

But people (on this forum) have been jumping on Suarez. I would be livid if I didn't say anything and someone called me a racist. It's a very serious allegation.

You hope that this deters inner racists from making their views known in the future, and any other incidents are caught on tape, so that such scum is banished from the game. As of now I'm not giving any player the benefit of the doubt.
 
KiD CaNtO said:
:lol:

I stand beside Evra, he's a Red and I trust that if Ferguson is backing him then we should too. But to be labelled a racist is very serious without any proof. Should we take Evra's word for it?
Click to expand...

It sure sounds as if your siding with Pat!
 
KiD CaNtO said:
This is hardly the first time Patrice has gone running his mouth is it?
Click to expand...

KiD CaNtO said:
Well there was France, there was Chelsea, he's never been shy to go opening his mouth in the past. I mean the FA shafted him over the Chelsea scene.
Click to expand...

KiD CaNtO said:
Not what I'm saying at all, if Evra has been racially abused he's every right to speak up, it's just in the past Evra has been found wrong, as much as I don't like Suarez, I've never heard of him being a racist or using racist remarks in the past? Just looking at this from the other angle.
Click to expand...

KiD CaNtO said:
A lot of us seem to think he absolutely has been racially abused. Innocent until proven guilty. Evra has a lot to answer for. All I'm saying.
Click to expand...

wtf is this?

Atleast make an effort to know something about the incident you comment on canto. This shit has been going on for weeks. Anybody with even a hint of an interest knows the background story by now.

But then, you'd need to participate in the FF to know whats going on.
 
KiD CaNtO comes across as a right bell end in this thread eh?

So we should only now accuse someone of being racist if we can prove it? wtf

So does that apply to rape too? You might know who raped you but don't accuse them of it unless you have proof.... riiiiiiiiiiiight!
 
I witnessed a murder last week but haven't told anyone, haven't quite got my case together yet. I've sent the DNA samples down to the lab this morning hopefully this will be the missing piece so that I can call the police.
 
Sharky7 said:
KiD CaNtO comes across as a right bell end in this thread eh?

So we should only now accuse someone of being racist if we can prove it? wtf

So does that apply to rape too? You might know who raped you but don't accuse them of it unless you have proof.... riiiiiiiiiiiight!
Click to expand...

Next time Evra is going to be racially abused on the pitch he'll have to (a) gain powers of telepathy to ensure he knows the exact moment he is going to be racially abused and (b) make sure he can master telekenesis to ensure the cameras are pointing towards him


it's the only way
 
rufus diabolus said:
I witnessed a murder last week but haven't told anyone, haven't quite got my case together yet. I've sent the DNA samples down to the lab this morning hopefully this will be the missing piece so that I can call the police.
Click to expand...

:lol:

That's KidCanto's logic
 
KiD CaNtO said:
feck. Everyone.

:(
Click to expand...

Brought it on yourself pal with that ridiculous comment.

No-one knows the truth, obviously, and I'm certainly not going to call Suarez guilty just because Evra says so, but expecting Evra not to mention it "without proof" is amongst the top 10 retarded posts I've ever seen on redcafe.
 
adexkola said:
But people (on this forum) have been jumping on Suarez. I would be livid if I didn't say anything and someone called me a racist. It's a very serious allegation.

You hope that this deters inner racists from making their views known in the future, and any other incidents are caught on tape, so that such scum is banished from the game. As of now I'm not giving any player the benefit of the doubt.
Click to expand...

People haven't been jumping on him for being racist though have they? They've done it because he's a cnut. That's something there is no lack of evidence of.
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
You most certainly did.
Click to expand...

He did indeed, but the post he quoted did need addressing...

AlwaysRedwood said:
You're assuming he is a racist. I'm not. I'm assuming he was being a dick and trying to do everything he could to gain an advantage over Evra. One can use racist language as a weapon and not be a racist.
Click to expand...

A few people have hinted at this. It's irrelevant.

Hitler may not really have been anti-semitic, he may have only persecuted Jews because it was expedient for him. But it makes no difference, you can only be judged by tour actions, and somebody who racially abuses another person is a de facto racist.
 
rufus diabolus said:
I witnessed a murder last week but haven't told anyone, haven't quite got my case together yet. I've sent the DNA samples down to the lab this morning hopefully this will be the missing piece so that I can call the police.
Click to expand...

Except he went to the media, not the police.

I agree with what Pogue said earlier that this would probably have been better handled by reporting it to the referee (or the actual police) privately and letting the investigation happen rather than making all the allegations public.
 
Pexbo said:
Very nicely put.
Click to expand...

Sir A1ex said:
He did indeed, but the post he quoted did need addressing...



A few people have hinted at this. It's irrelevant.

Hitler may not really have been anti-semitic, he may have only persecuted Jews because it was expedient for him. But it makes no difference, you can only be judged by tour actions, and somebody who racially abuses another person is a de facto racist.
Click to expand...
I don't think it is irrelevant, he's such a piece of sh*t that he would do anything I think , that to me is even worse in way, to use racism as way to wind someone up
 
MikeUpNorth said:
Except he went to the media, not the police.

I agree with what Pogue said earlier that this would probably have been better handled by reporting it to the referee (or the actual police) privately and letting the investigation happen rather than making all the allegations public.
Click to expand...

They told the referee after the game. That's why it's included in the match report.
 
MrMarcello said:
What's the latest on this saga? I'm not wasting time trolling through what appears to be pages of mindless posts and rants.
Click to expand...

No idea. I just keep checking in on this thread hoping one of the talented giftards has redone the little kid saying "that's racist!" with Evra's face.
 
Sir A1ex said:
He did indeed, but the post he quoted did need addressing...

A few people have hinted at this. It's irrelevant.

Hitler may not really have been anti-semitic, he may have only persecuted Jews because it was expedient for him. But it makes no difference, you can only be judged by tour actions, and somebody who racially abuses another person is a de facto racist.
Click to expand...

Wow, straight to Hitler, huh?

Look, my position is that I believe Evra over Suarez because he's a dick. I then backed it up by saying he didn't have to be a racist to use racist language, that he could have just been using it to get under Evra's skin, as a wind up, you know, like a dick.

People can say horrible things and not be those things.

You can call a woman a bitch and not be a misogynist.
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
Wow, straight to Hitler, huh?
Click to expand...

To be fair, when discussing racism it's no great leap...

AlwaysRedwood said:
he didn't have to be a racist to use racist language, that he could have just been using it to get under Evra's skin, as a wind up, you know, like a dick.
Click to expand...

As I say, it makes no odds, you can only judge somebody on their actions. And somebody who racially abuses people is a de facto racist.

AlwaysRedwood said:
You can call a woman a bitch and not be a misogynist.
Click to expand...

Very different.
 
The joke in Manchester is that Patrice Evra is passionate, but not as passionate as his father, because the Manchester United defender has 24 brothers and sisters. Evra's passion was seen in three separate incidents during last week's 1-1 draw with Liverpool at Anfield, none of which covered United's captain for the day in glory, and the last of which could have long-lasting consequences.

The first was after 15 minutes, when English winger Stewart Downing tumbled to the ground trying to escape Evra's attention. It was a blatant dive and Evra, furious, brandished an imaginary card towards the referee urging him to book the player. "That's not what we want to see in this game, behaviour like that," said Sky TV's co-commentator Ray Wilkins. He was talking about Evra's waving, which was fair enough; but he could have been talking about Downing's dive, which did not get a mention.

Then around the hour-mark, Evra was booked after a set-to with opponent Luis Suarez. As the jeers and whistles from the Kop, home to Liverpool's most vociferous supporters, rained down on him, Evra dipped his neck and kissed the club badge on his United shirt. It was passionate, provocative, and not particularly clever.

Within minutes after the final whistle, before Evra even had time to go into the dressing-room, he stopped for a few words about the game with a journalist from French TV station Canal Plus. Before the cameras rolled, the journalist asked about his running battle with Suarez, and Evra told him he had been racially abused, had made the referee aware, but did not want to talk about it. Evra was seething and the journalist, sensing a story, asked him anyway. Evra took the bait.

That was the backdrop to last weekend's biggest story, and Evra was confident that evidence would back him up. "He tried to get me to crack, we have video, there are cameras everywhere and you can very well see on his lips the word he says to me more than 10 times. I have no worries on that front," he told Canal Plus. Before his quotes had even aired in France, an FA spokesman confirmed that the incident would be investigated. Evra was called to a hearing on Thursday.

Suarez immediately denied the claims and Liverpool is equally adamant about the Uruguayan's innocence. "The football club and everyone at the football club is totally, utterly and fully behind Luis Suarez," said Liverpool coach Kenny Dalglish at a news conference. The Daily Mail reported that Sky Sports could find no video evidence in footage from the game to support Evra's allegation. However, Evra, his coach Sir Alex Ferguson told a press conference on Tuesday, "is adamant he wants to follow it on." Suarez must be presumed innocent unless evidence proves otherwise, but it is the strength of antipathy towards Evra, the alleged "victim" in this case, that has been surprising.

Liverpool fans allied themselves to their player and claimed Evra "has previous." But that's not true: in 2006, when a deaf United fan claimed he lip-read abuse from Liverpool's Steve Finnan towards Evra, the defender neither heard it nor complained; in April 2008, when the FA threw out a complaint of racism towards Evra from a Chelsea groundsman, it was United coaches Mike Phelan and Richard Hartis, who claimed to hear the alleged abuse.

Last June, Evra told L'Equipe about his upbringing -- born in Dakar to a Senegalese father and a mother from Cape Verde, and lived for two years in Brussels before moving to France -- and revealed the taunts when he declared for France. "At that time, I was a traitor to the [Senegal] nation, the monkey who pulled down his trousers in front of the white man." He made no official complaint, but has not been back to Senegal since he was 10.

In France, too, Evra has gained little support, with scant media coverage of the alleged Suarez incident. He has not been forgiven for his role, as captain, during the fiasco of France's 2010 World Cup campaign, when the French players threatened to go on strike in South Africa. After the French federation gave him a five-match ban, Evra felt he was being made the scapegoat for what he, and other players, said was a collective and unanimous decision. (He had only just been appointed captain and it remains widely thought that senior players including Thierry Henry and William Gallas were constantly trying to undermine coach Raymond Domenech.)

Marcel Desailly, a France World Cup winner who played in England for Chelsea, has openly backed Evra. "I was the victim of racism during Euro 96 [which was played in England]," Desailly told The Specialists. "It's important that the FA act fast in this case to stop it festering." Jacques Crevoisier, former Liverpool assistant coach and now a consultant for several big clubs, spoke to Evra for half an hour after the match, and told Canal Plus that the player "was very upset."

Not many others have, except, crucially for Evra, Ferguson: the pair's relationship is so close at United that teammates call the Frenchman "teacher's pet." Evra first came to Ferguson's attention during Monaco's run to the 2004 Champions League final. One incident in the semifinal against Chelsea was particularly instructive: in the opening minutes, Evra was the victim of a bad tackle from Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink. There was a hole in his sock, through which he could see the wound and a bit of bone. "My felt like it was hanging off," Evra told Canal Plus, "but I played on. Ferguson later said it showed my character, and he liked my determination."

He needed to show that quality after a torrid United debut against this weekend's opponents, Manchester City, in January 2006. Evra was taken off at halftime -- he later described the 45 minutes as "like being stuck in a washing-machine," while Ferguson just told him to "watch and learn about English football" -- as United lost 3-1. Since then, Evra has become a key player in the team's success, winning four league titles, one Champions League and eight other trophies in five years. He was selected in the PFA's Team of the Year for three years running between 2007 and 2010.

Ferguson almost lost Evra in summer 2010. Real Madrid and Inter Milan had made offers, the player's family were unsettled and he even put his house up for sale. After the World Cup, though, Ferguson summoned Evra to his house (a rare moment for any player), said he respected his decision if the family wanted it, but added: "You are an essential part of this team, so I don't see why you would want to leave." Evra stayed, and then admitted to Canal Plus: "Maybe my decision would have been different under a different manager."

Ferguson sees a kindred spirit in Evra, who once evoked the coach's team-talk before a game in 2008. "He comes from a difficult part of Glasgow. Wayne Rooney is from a poor part of Liverpool. The same goes for Ryan Giggs, and was also true of Tevez and Ronaldo [who were there at the time] and that's no coincidence," Evra told L'Equipe. Ferguson, he explained, wants fighters in his team. "He showed us that this team had a soul," Evra said.

The feeling is mutual. Evra was reluctant to take the United armband for the first time in a Champions League tie in Wolfsburg in late 2009, especially as British players Michael Carrick, Darren Fletcher, Paul Scholes and Michael Owen were all starting, but Ferguson convinced him. "You're the leader, you're the man I put my trust in," he told him. Evra went on to captain United in its League Cup final win over Aston Villa, and title-deciding victory over Arsenal, later that season. "In terms of personality, Patrice Evra is a powerful force," Ferguson told L'Equipe last year. "He has a great influence on the team."

Unlike his approach to Wayne Rooney, who was dropped for last season's game at Everton, and for the Liverpool match last week, Ferguson has never hesitated to pick Evra. When he was on the front-page of a tabloid for non-football reasons in March 2010, Ferguson picked him for successive wins over AC Milan (4-0), Fulham (3-0) and Liverpool (2-1); despite just one week of pre-season after that damaging World Cup campaign, Ferguson threw him in to the season opener against Newcastle (3-0). This week, Evra started in United's European win at Otelul Galati and may wear the armband again if Nemanja Vidic misses Sunday's big game against City.

Darren Tulett, the Canal Plus presenter who broke the story last Saturday night, was taken aback by the anti-Evra sentiment. He wondered if the reaction might have been different had it been Danny Welbeck, or Rio Ferdinand, both Englishmen, making the allegation. It's an interesting question, especially when you consider the Wilkins comment: Evra may have been United captain, but he is feisty, and provocative. And he is French.

The most likely outcome of Evra's racism claim, according to most pundits, among them former referee and Daily Mail columnist Graham Poll, is that it will not be proven, and the reputations of both men involved will be tarnished as a result. That is a terrible shame (and for Suarez too, let's not forget). There will be no winners in this unsavoury tale.
Click to expand...
After torrid World Cup, Patrice Evra engaged in controversy again - Ben Lyttleton - SI.com
 
This really has just boiled down to Man United vs Liverpool hasn't it? A bollocks to kick racism out of the game.

Dalgleish has said the whole club is fully behind Suarez. What external proof does he have that Suarez isn't racist besides his word? Would he still behind him if he was proved racist?

There seems to be no sensible judgments from both sets of fans. It's just about what the evidence or lack of it for their player is.

The football element should be taken out of this situation. Being labelled a racist on a global stage for Suarez is huge. It also must be awful for him if there's no truth to it. Everyone who follows football will know about it. Same for Evra, if no proof is put forward then it really damages his already low moral scale.
 
Sir A1ex said:
As I say, it makes no odds, you can only judge somebody on their actions. And somebody who racially abuses people is a de facto racist.
Click to expand...

Not really. If what Evra said is 100% true, then Suarez said it to annoy Evra. Implying Suarez probably didn't mean what he was saying. If you want to ignore that logic that's fine but is doesn't make Suarez a "de facto racist" in the world of reality.

Definition of racism in case you forgot:

rac·ism
n.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.