Evra accuses Suarez of racist remarks | Suarez guilty of racial abuse

Most Uruguayans seem to be saying similar things, and I don't think they have a racism problem, mainly because they don't have a problem with racism. It's as if their culture just doesn't quite understand what racism is. They truly believe that referring to someone's skin colour is no different to any other physical aspect of their appearance. I suppose it's cultural really, they'll all think we're overreacting to something and nothing, whereas we believe it to be wrong, and as it happened in England, our rules apply.

Also, I think a forum invasion is now in order, not like before, where the objective was to WUM an entire board, but to throw a load of facts at them, and hit them with common sense. Imagine it, logical posts on RAWK.

Yes, for the following reasons:

- Their achievements are basically asterisked by their financial doping, and everyone knows it.

- They don't really give a shit about the cups now that they've got the 35 year thing out of the way, all about the PL and CL, would mean less than for Liverpool. My Scouse mate described it as their biggest game(s) in years.

- They've won a trophy since Liverpool.

- An extra game for City would knock their schedule a bit further/tire them a bit more.

- We're very close with Liverpool in trophies won, 60-58 overall and 40-40 when you knock off one-off games.

- Given Liverpool's actions lately, I'm more keen than ever that everyone associated with that club is as miserable as possible.

Hm fair enough. As things are I see Liverpool are the sideshow of the Premier League and City as the big rivals so for now I'd rather Liverpool had the success over City. Ah well, at least it's the mickey mouse cup.

feck it, come on Cardiff!!
 
So did Comolli and Kyut, one the Liverpool Director of Football and Suarez boss, the other a fellow player and colleague make up what Suarez said to get him banned, or because they like Evra and wanted to back him? Language experts can say what they like, but how in the name of feck did two different people mishear and mistranslate what Suarez told them at two different times, in two different languages no less, and mishear/mistranslate what he told them in exactly the same way? Ludicrous.

It's amazing how someone can be spoken to in racist terms, and somehow be painted as the one in the wrong. Evra has been accused of all sorts in this by that bitter bunch of scouse fecks, with all kinds of lies about previous being thrown in there. I had an argument with a scouse mate who was adamant Evra had done this before, he knew for a fact he'd done it before. Wouldn't believe me when I told him the facts of the Chelsea and Steve Finnan incidents and had to look it up. The lies that have been taken as fact about Evra is astounding. How hard is it to look on the interweb and check facts out before repeating them as facts? I know I do it all the time if I hear or read something I've never heard before or am unsure of.
 
The thing is, it's now the widely held view that Evra did this before. Even journos have spouted a load of shit at times. Even on here there'll be people who were unaware of the facts until they were pointed out.

But what do they say? Why let facts get in the way of a good rant?
 

At least the above has tried to go about his critique in a reasoned way.

But it appears he didn't read paragraph 181 which basically addresses those elements.

181. The experts noted that the use of the verb form "porque tu eres negro" is not the most usual
form for Montevidean Spanish, since the form of the verb "ser" most commonly used
would be the "vos" form, that is "porque (vos) sos negro". Nevertheless, a small percentage
of people from Montevideo do use the "tu" form (in contrast to Buenos Aires, where it is
rarely used) or even a mixture of both. In the interview with Mr Suarez the transcription
indicated to the experts that he uses the "tu" form of the verb, though there are other
filmed interviews published on the internet in which he uses the "vos" form of the verb.
Given that he has spent some considerable time in Europe it is possible that his use of
Spanish alters between Uruguayan and European contexts. It is also possible that Mr Evra,
who may have learned his Spanish in Spain, where the "vos" form is not used, may, when
recalling the incident in interview, have rendered Mr Suarez’s usage as the "tu" form, even
if Mr Suarez used the "vos" form.
 
The thing is, it's now the widely held view that Evra did this before. Even journos have spouted a load of shit at times. Even on here there'll be people who were unaware of the facts until they were pointed out.

But what do they say? Why let facts get in the way of a good rant?

I think the saying you are looking for is why let the truth get in the way of talking out of your hole. Am I right?
 
I should point out I haven't read it myself yet. I posted it for other people to read, and I plan on reading it when i wake up seeing as its quarter to two. I posted it on the basis that the guy seems to have a little credibility, but I have no ideas as to what he is saying yet

Yeah, that's fair enough, mate. However, it seems that the Liverpool fans are snatching at anything which might exonerate Suarez. Even my 'crude' retorts to conclusions 1 & 2 in that report hold water - even the supposed expert assumes (like the fans) that the FA, for some reason, favoured Evra and his testimony...and ignore the fact that the FA lauded Patrice for the consistency of his testimony and his deliverance of such. The LFC fans' thinking on this matter is self-serving and wishful. I can hardly believe it when I read on their boards that all they care about is 'a good man's name & reputation'; this, generally speaking, appears to be a false sentiment at best.
 
To all the people calling for him to be sacked as that's what would happen in a normal place of work, this is going to sound crazy but I actually read a great reason for not sacking him on RAWK. I know, I know, but hear me out.

Some guy over there posted that this case has been decided on the balance of probabilities, and quite rightly so. However, to bring disciplinary action to the extent that Suarez loses his job, the burden of proof needs to be stronger than probable - even a high degree of probability should be required.

I know if I lost my job for an alleged offence of which my employer was not 100% certain I had committed, I'd be taking them to the cleaners in an Employment Tribunal.

I think that it's only fair that for Liverpool to sack him for this, the offence should have been proved beyond reasonable doubt, which it hasn't been. Sacking him would be harsh in these circumstances.

It's not about probability (well not directly) but in a criminal court, it's about the verdict being 'beyond reasonable doubt'. As the case would never go to a criminal court for a sacking (well I assume - I'm not an expert).....

Civil Court is where it changes slightly and it's about a 'preponderance of evidence', in which there can be doubt and the decision can be made as on the Suarez case, that it was more likely (suppose you could use probabilities here) to be abusive because of his demeanour, but cannot be proven - but it's only an FA enquiry anyway, so they'd have their own internal policies/procedures.

It's the reason OJ was cleared of murder but successfully sued for all of his money - that it was likely he did it but there was an element of doubt. How Suarez could take it to a criminal court I have no idea but it does not sound at all likely.
 
It's not about probability (well not directly) but in a criminal court, it's about the verdict being 'beyond reasonable doubt'. As the case would never go to a criminal court for a sacking (well I assume - I'm not an expert).....

Civil Court is where it changes slightly and it's about a 'preponderance of evidence', in which there can be doubt and the decision can be made as on the Suarez case, that it was more likely (suppose you could use probabilities here) to be abusive because of his demeanour, but cannot be proven - but it's only an FA enquiry anyway, so they'd have their own internal policies/procedures.

It's the reason OJ was cleared of murder but successfully sued for all of his money - that it was likely he did it but there was an element of doubt. How Suarez could take it to a criminal court I have no idea but it does not sound at all likely.

I fully understand the differences between the civil court burden of proof required and that of the criminal court. The point is that if Liverpool were to sack Suarez for it, they would need to be certain of their grounding for the sacking and I'm not sure if the burden of proof of the balance of probabilities would be enough. I definitely wouldn't like to be sacked over something which it was probable I did, rather than something it was certain I did.

From a legal perspective, if Liverpool did sack Suarez for this then he could take action against them through the UK equivalent of an Employment Tribunal, whatever it's called over there. In such a case, Suarez would claim unfair dismissal on the grounds of an unproven allegation of racism.

As far as I'm aware, the burden of proof in unfair dismissal cases then falls on the employer (despite them effectively being the defendant) i.e. Liverpool would need to prove that the dismissal of Suarez was not unfair in that he actually committed the alleged offence of racism. While the FA have only had to prove that it was more probable that Suarez committed the offence than it is that he did not, Liverpool's burden of proof in an unfair dismissal case might be a lot higher than that.

It's actually unclear under UK law at present just how high a burden of proof would fall on Liverpool (as far as I'm aware, a 2009 UK case required that the respondent must prove it on the balance of probabilities (similar to the FA) but that "A bare explanation for the allegedly discriminatory conduct will not be enough; it must be backed by evidence"). The fact that Liverpool have backed him all the way with this charge wouldn't help them if they wished to now sack him.

All I'm saying is that it's probably not as easy for Liverpool to turn around and say "you're sacked" from a legal perspective. In fact, I'm not sure that option would be pen to them at all.
 
Suárez could not have even said “tu eres” negro, which would be gramatically correct in Madrid, because in the Rio de la Plata area we would never say “tu eres negro”, but “vos SOS negro”. And that is a fact, not a matter of the opinion of anyone, not even the language experts consulted by the FA, of course. I am a native speaker of Montevideo, a PhD in Spanish by Stanford, and currently a professor of Spanish at Brown University, and if I was called to court on this, I would categorically deny that Suarez, who lived his adult life in Montevideo—despite being born in Salto—could have said other than “vos sos negro”. There is no way in the world he could have said to Evra, spontaneously and as a reaction to Evra’s words and attitudes, “porque tu eres negro”

In the interview with Mr Suarez the transcription indicated to the experts that he uses the "tu" form of the verb
:lol:
 
Anyway...people who are in the midst of an argument don't always speak in the standard, formal and ideal form of their language; for example: "You don't know f*ck all" - not good English, but more likely to be said in an argument than "You know absolutely nothing."
 
A solid argument Steve but somewhat irrelevant given he actually used that same version again when the FA interviewed him.

That article by the way is being thrown about on Twitter as if it blows the case apart. Proof if proof was needed that the vast bulk of them haven't bothered reading the report.
 
'Award-winning academic Aldo Mazzucchelli of Brown University'...Aldo, eh? Very suspicious. :D
 
John-Aldridge_t.jpg
 
:lol:

Although now that you mention it, I've just noticed the entire process was carried out by a Sir AIex Ferguson, with only the l in Alex changed to a capital i. I think we may have got away with one here.
 
A solid argument Steve but somewhat irrelevant given he actually used that same version again when the FA interviewed him.

That article by the way is being thrown about on Twitter as if it blows the case apart. Proof if proof was needed that the vast bulk of them haven't bothered reading the report.

Another 'groundbreaking' exposé (with accompanying video evidence) being sent around the 'net is from the Bleacher Report which, as all transfer muppets know, is considered second only to CaughtOffside in terms of reputation and prestige. Curiously, the journalist (ahem) responsible for the article has Luis Suarez as his BR profile picture, and his bio reads: 'I am a die-hard Liverpool FC supporter from the day I started watching football...' Who'd have guessed?

The FA's Report May Be Inconsistent in the Suarez-Evra Saga | Bleacher Report
 
A bit more from Aldo on his facebook page:

Mi último post relativo al asunto, también publicado en foros del Liverpool hoy. Saludos

Appealing?
I am really touched by all the comments following my post and I thank you all. I am no lawyer so I cannot have a grounded professional opinion on whether Liverpool should appeal or not. I have always seen the case as a disgrace, in the sense that what is really at stake seems to involve some of the contents of the public imaginary in GBritain --contents that, in some clear ways, are not nice towards us South Americans. The particular image Luis is projecting (I would say he is vaguely perceived by his rivals and the general public, with the exception of the Liverpool fans, as both a cunning and dangerous individual) set him up for this. It was just a matter of when he would make a mistake--or something that could be presented that way. That mistake happened.

In the football codes of our area of the world, Evra should be considered a pariah --and I wouldn't like to be him in the pitch facing some of the friends or fellow players of the guy he attacked. But in your codes, it seems it is seen the other way around by many--as if Evra was doing "Public Justice" or "the Law" a big favor with his report.

There are clear codes in football--at least in our football game in South America. Evra has not understood this, or is voluntarily breaking them.

It is not that we don't see football as an important thing, but (maybe because we have always had much bigger problems than that to cope with) we just cannot understand when somebody crosses the line and makes what was clearly a normal discussion within the limits of the game, occasion for a public lynching of a colleague. Justice is not being served there because the whole thing is completely out of proportion.

Let me quote something the great Argentine writer Jorge Luis Borges said in one of his essays --and what he says about Argentines applies equally well to Uruguayans, since we are such close and similar countries and basically the same culture:

"The Argentine, unlike the Americans of the North and almost all Europeans, does not identify with the State. This is attributable to the circumstance that the governments in this country tend to be awful, or to the general fact that the State is an inconceivable abstraction. One thing is certain: the Argentine is an individual, not a citizen. Aphorisms such as Hegel's "The State is the reality of the moral idea" strike him as sinister jokes. Films made in Hollywood often hold up for admiration the case of a man (usually a journalist) who seeks out the friendship of a criminal in order to hand him over to the police; the Argentine, for whom friendship is a passion and the police a mafia, feels that this "hero" is an incomprehensible swine." (Borges, "Our Poor Individualism")

In our South American vision, Evra falls right into the category of the incomprehensible swine. You might have a discussion in the field, but to go out to the authorities and report a fellow player with the clear purpose of destroying his career is even worse than trying to break his leg. The captain of the Uruguay national team, Diego Lugano, said exactly this: that Evra was breaking all football codes. I think Evra made a huge human mistake, and I can see he is getting away with it, which aggravates me a big deal and is the motivation I had to took the pains of reading the 115 pages of the **** the FA offered the world. I don't understand why Evra did what he did; I do not understand how come he suddenly became so hatred towards a fellow player --especially since Suarez does not seem to have done anything outside what could be consider normal exchanges in any football match --some winding up, some insulting, etc. For us South Americans, football is a GAME, not a High Morals public school or something like that. You need to keep things that happen in the field confined to that dimension, because football IS A GAME. To some extent, players are actors in a public performance. And they are, of course, not serious representatives of the public morals making display of ideal ethics of a given society. They should not be judged on those absolute grounds. It looks to me like the case of those members of primitive theatrical plays that would jump into the stage to defend the actress being assaulted by the villain...

I perceive a self-righteous attitude in everything surrounding Suarez's case in England that, to some extent, is out of proportion--to the extent is is almost hilarious. Now, making some normal events on a football pitch part of a public discussion on racism and using Suarez as a weapon on that discussion (basically, making Suarez himself a sort of a bomb-man that has been detonated, destroying Suarez's image) is disgusting, at least to me.

Maybe the best thing would be to negotiate with the FA a way that, after a calculated and silent appeal, the penalty would end up being reduced a little bit, and on the other hand the player and Liverpool would issue a strong statement saying that 1) it has been stated by the FA and by Evra that Suarez is obviously not racist (quoting the FA paragraphs that say that), 2) that it was not the intention of Suarez to offend Evra, or to compromise Liverpool reputation in the battle against racism, and 3) that Luis Suarez will make an extra effort to participate and help even more in campaigns against racism.

After that, Luis should take the ban, get some rest, and come back for a great final half of the season for Liverpool. He can still do a lot of good to Liverpool and himself, and I guess that this could help him out learning a lesson about how careful you need to be while in such an visible public position. Probably the rivals would start respecting him even more after they see he accepted the penalty and they start perceiving how out of proportion all this issue has grown. People are noble after all, and I am sure many players will feel sympathetic for Luis.

This scapegoating of Suarez might end up integrating him even more definitely into British football culture, which I don't think would be a bad outcome at all for him --and might help British culture, after it has vented all its anger and prejudice, to take a step in the direction of understanding foreign cultures a little bit more --and start laughing a little bit more about football and what is at stake in it. No wonder it is South American players, used to consider football just a game you play for fun where you intend to defeat your rival through invention and, yes, some level of "cheating", among the ones that are bringing the most imaginative and creative ways of playing into England fields. Or isn't a good dribbling a form of deceiving (cheating) your rival?

Aldo Mazzucchelli | Facebook
 
How gutted is he going to be when he reads paragraph 181 of the report? Just like all the Scousers who wasted months finely analysing the ins and outs of the words negrito and sudaca.
 
Yes Aldo, because the FA 'stitch up' every South American player, so it really was just a 'matter of time' before they found a charge for Luis.

Man, remember that scandal with Anderson, and the Twins? But we got out our t-shirts and we got through it.
 
A bit more from Aldo on his facebook page:

Honestly, if even intelligent men like Mr Mazzucchelli enter this discussion armed with cultural assumptions rather than facts, then he might as well say nothing because his opinion is biased a priori, leaving his conclusions invalid. If he's correct in his explanation of a negative collective South American mindset regarding figures & bodies of authority, then he and his countrymen are predisposed to challenge those authorities even if the authorities are blameless. How on earth can we take such an obviously clever man seriously when his thinking is so flawed? And, frankly, given Mr Mazzucchelli's apparent celebration of the art of deception, how we can trust the words of his compatriot Luis Suarez?
 
Honestly, if even intelligent men like Mr Mazzucchelli enter this discussion armed with cultural assumptions rather than facts, then he might as well say nothing because his opinion is biased a priori, leaving his conclusions invalid. If he's correct in his explanation of a negative collective South American mindset regarding figures & bodies of authority, then he and his countrymen are predisposed to challenge those authorities even if the authorities are blameless. How on earth can we take such an obviously clever man seriously when his thinking is so flawed? And, frankly, given Mr Mazzucchelli's apparent celebration of the art of deception, how we can trust the words of his compatriot Luis Suarez?

Summed up nicely... for a racist.
 
Let me quote something the great Argentine writer Jorge Luis Borges said in one of his essays --and what he says about Argentines applies equally well to Uruguayans, since we are such close and similar countries and basically the same culture:

"The Argentine, unlike the Americans of the North and almost all Europeans, does not identify with the State. This is attributable to the circumstance that the governments in this country tend to be awful, or to the general fact that the State is an inconceivable abstraction. One thing is certain: the Argentine is an individual, not a citizen. Aphorisms such as Hegel's "The State is the reality of the moral idea" strike him as sinister jokes. Films made in Hollywood often hold up for admiration the case of a man (usually a journalist) who seeks out the friendship of a criminal in order to hand him over to the police; the Argentine, for whom friendship is a passion and the police a mafia, feels that this "hero" is an incomprehensible swine."

Hence why traditionally poverty-stricken people wrongly make heroes out of criminals, even when those criminals are every bit as bad as the state they supposedly rebel against; in fact, these criminals often opress those who would otherwise support them unconditionally. Sure, people of most nations often lionise villains (the Great Train Robbers over here, Salvatore Giuliano in Italy, the James Gang in the US, for example) but this is often sentimental nonsense stemming from poor journalism and a glossing-over of the violence and immorality of such wrong-doers. And it's such wrong-headed thinking that the Assistant Professor - and even the great Borges - has displayed here.
 
Having read Mr M's report a second time, it appears that he's Gus Poyet with A Levels. He's practically suggesting that Evra is the wrong-doer, that Suarez should be widely applauded for his gamesmanship - which, it seems, is no different to footballing skill - and that Patrice and his 'kind' should laugh-off being racially abused. Oh, and apparently the British are all snobby racists...maybe we should laugh that off while we skilfully kick the legs from under Professor Mazzucchelli on our way to the yacht club. F*ckwit.

The particular image Luis is projecting (I would say he is vaguely perceived by his rivals and the general public, with the exception of the Liverpool fans, as both a cunning and dangerous individual) set him up for this.

No, 'cunning' and 'dangerous' are Romantic terms; in view of what is obviously a gigantic cultural gap in attitudes, Suarez is perceived here as being 'a f*cking cheat'. Still, I guess even that could be called Romantic if you think millionaire Luis Suarez is a working class hero and Patrice Evra is the embodiment of the state. Pfft.
 
:lol:...yep, that's the impression I got too. Liverpool fans are really stretching if this is the new defence they're reaching for.

Even most of them admit that if what Evra says is true he deserves a ban. This man doesn't even seem to think that. They're now approaching it from an entirely "all's fair in love & war" approach, and I'm not even sure they're aware they're doing it - someone's just said "Oi, this Uruguayan with a degree's on our side, and that's fecking boss!" and that's basically good enough. :lol:

It's exactly the same kind of over emotive, defensive passive agressive waffle the more stubborn fans have been spouting all week, and yet again, the nice little attacking of Evra (at no point conceding that if what Evra says happened did then it would be bad, merely sledging, and anyway, there's no chance of that anyway, cos he's a dishonourable cnut who should watch himself in Uruguay) makes him seem like a perfectly reasonable person with no trace of self interest, hypocrisy or over emotive vindictiveness.

It's a long whining defence that Suarez isn't a racist again. Despite the fact that no one is calling him a racist. Oddly, much like Liverpool themselves, no one was really that critical of Uruguay or it's people until some of them suddenly felt the need to come out and defend themselves from attacks people weren't making on behalf of their best player.

If they'd left it alone it wouldn't reflect badly on them whatsoever (and it doesn't entirely anyway) At worse just Suarez, and LFC. But in a bizarre attempt to defend a national hero, some of them have ended up portraying themselves as a peoples who couldn't care less if black players are insulted as long as it's in a jolly, sporting environment, and who have no interest in respecting the laws and cultures of English football, whilst crying that we're all backward racist cnuts who should respect theirs. It's actually quite bizarre. Quite clearly not everyone from Uruguay's doing this though.
 
in a bizarre attempt to defend a national hero, they've ended up portraying themselves as a peoples who couldn't care less if black players are insulted as long as it's in a jolly, sporting environment, and who have no interest in respecting the laws and cultures of English football, whilst crying that we're all cnuts who should respect theirs. It's actually quite bizarre.

Yeah, if anything they've made it worse for Suarez. It's rarely a good thing to generalise, especially about race, but maybe we should've listened closely when Maradona spoke about the 'beauty' of his Hand of God, and how that artfulness was more appreciated by his countrymen than the brilliance of his second goal - there genuinely seems to be a massive gap in cultural attitudes here. And it's cost Suarez, no doubt, because we can't appreciate (in both senses of the word) this attitude.
 
I think a lot of people would defend their national hero over a cultural misunderstanding. If Beckham was caught fingering Posh in Saudi Arabia we'd probably all come out and accuse them of being backward....But the problem is a) we'd probably have to lump it and b) If what Evra is alleging is true, this isn't a misunderstanding, he is actually just being racially aggravating, and if you're going to try and defend it from that angle just to be sure, you're always going to make yourself look stupid. Whatever the culture of your country.
 
I don't think anyone could guarantee it, but she might actually smile if that took place. Unless the paps were there...which they would be, of course, having been invited...can't smile just in case Italian Vogue photographers were in attendance...gotta look 'cool' at all costs, even happiness...ok, I'm rambling now & it's time for bed.
 
I think a lot of people would defend their national hero over a cultural misunderstanding. If Beckham was caught fingering Posh in Saudi Arabia we'd probably all come out and accuse them of being backward....But the problem is a) we'd probably have to lump it and b) If what Evra is alleging is true, this isn't a misunderstanding, he is actually just being racially aggravating, and if you're going to try and defend it from that angle just to be sure, you're always going to make yourself look stupid. Whatever the culture of your country.

It's like what I said earlier, it's ethnocentrism. But as it happened in our country, our rules apply.
 
It's also worth pointing out that the idea there's little or no racism in Uruguay is bollocks...even a cursory google search refutes that...and I'm sure there are loads of black people who'd be offended by many if not most of the things Suarez is alleged to have said at various times...hence the judgemnent of the linguistic experts.

It may not be as much of a taboo and they might not have a culture of making a fuss about it, but its nonsense to suggest Uruguay is this singularly unique rainbow country with nationwide offense free racial harmony, and as such Suarez couldn't possibly have been meaning anything racist because, hey, what's that? Never heard of it!

It also doesn't really help that most (If not all, I haven't been keeping track?) of the people who've come out and said it's fine to say whatever to black people in theses situations (including this guy) have been White. Where's Tokyo Sexwhale when you need him?

Or indeed antohan?...Where's he got to?
 
Suárez could not have even said “tu eres” negro, which would be gramatically correct in Madrid, because in the Rio de la Plata area we would never say “tu eres negro”, but “vos SOS negro”. And that is a fact, not a matter of the opinion of anyone, not even the language experts consulted by the FA, of course. I am a native speaker of Montevideo, a PhD in Spanish by Stanford, and currently a professor of Spanish at Brown University, and if I was called to court on this, I would categorically deny that Suarez, who lived his adult life in Montevideo—despite being born in Salto—could have said other than “vos sos negro”. There is no way in the world he could have said to Evra, spontaneously and as a reaction to Evra’s words and attitudes, “porque tu eres negro”
In the interview with Mr Suarez the transcription indicated to the experts that he uses the "tu" form of the verb
:lol:

lolsuarez.jpg
 
Most Uruguayans seem to be saying similar things, and I don't think they have a racism problem, mainly because they don't have a problem with racism. It's as if their culture just doesn't quite understand what racism is. They truly believe that referring to someone's skin colour is no different to any other physical aspect of their appearance. I suppose it's cultural really, they'll all think we're overreacting to something and nothing, whereas we believe it to be wrong, and as it happened in England, our rules apply.

Not sure why they can't wrap their minds around the fact that words have different meanings in different places.

Would take an Englishmen about 10 minutes to learn fags is a very offensive term in America and not a cigarette. No difference with the word Negro in England. Different place, different meaning. And he knew it. That's why he used it the way he did.

Anyone who doesn't see that is willfully ignorant.
 
From TLW (which I've previously been defending)

I'd suggest anyone with contacts at the club do their best to make sure they know about the threads here, on RAWK and more importantly the one on the LFC TV forum.

Theres enough info in the threads to seriously discredit the report.

FFS.

If Liverpool don't appeal, will they realise they're not quite as vital and self important as they think they are? Or that they haven't really stumbled upon any great inconsistencies that actual legal professionals will have spent slightly more than a week picking over and decided weren't controversial in the slightest? or will they insist on pretending they could've actually gotten him off completely, given a royal pardon and knighted in the next NYs honours if only a bunch of unqualified posters on a collection of football forums had been allowed to display the "info" they'd convinced themselves they'd collected?

It's gone well beyond sad & delusional now. The club need to stop this for their own fans' health.
 
Has this been posted yet? Not had a chance to read it fully, just saw it on another forum

Professor in Hispanic Studies dissects the FA’s Suarez report | Liverpool FC - This Is Anfield -

EDIT: Oops. Shit. Sorry, didn't see it posted above :angel:

Just more of the same bollocks to be honest , some of the comments posted after are a joke.This is one I did not get.

how come the manc gobshite hasnt been charged with any offences it is beyond belief that they have done this to saurez and not charged the manc barsteward its hypocrisy and double standards in my opinion but maybe im biased due to being a fanatical liverpool fan but seems its one rule for the manc's and another for everyone else..................or is that just what im seeing in this whole sorry saga :(

Just what do these sad deluded idiots want Evra charged with , being Black , racially abused?

and this one just made me spit my coffee all over my laptop screen .

it's pure and simple..evra got humiliated (football-skills-wise) by suarez..and tried all means to get 'one over' suarez..which including fouling suarez time and time again..
to which suarez responded with a couple of niggly fouls of his own on evra..
of course evra, being the whiner he is, couldn't stand being kicked and being the confrontational and liar he is, decided to provoke suarez by asking him in an intimidating manner why he was kicked..purely baiting suarez to say or do something that can be used against suarez himself..
and what do we know, evra started this chain of 'events', 'created' a whole story of racism that has only his own credibility..or lack of...
I believe any decent person in his (evra) shoes will find his actions, conduct, mindset, character, totally disgusting and appalling...and that we all know of people who are much better persons that evra...
 
Was that mentioned that the whole point of this literature teacher was covered in the report? And came to it that by being in Europe for long, Suarez could have pick it up. And he did, as proven by Commoli.
 
181. The experts noted that the use of the verb form "porque tu eres negro" is not the most usual form for Montevidean Spanish, since the form of the verb "ser" most commonly used would be the "vos" form, that is "porque (vos) sos negro". Nevertheless, a small percentage of people from Montevideo do use the "tu" form (in contrast to Buenos Aires, where it is rarely used) or even a mixture of both. In the interview with Mr Suarez the transcription indicated to the experts that he uses the "tu" form of the verb, though there are other filmed interviews published on the internet in which he uses the "vos" form of the verb. Given that he has spent some considerable time in Europe it is possible that his use of Spanish alters between Uruguayan and European contexts. It is also possible that Mr Evra, who may have learned his Spanish in Spain, where the "vos" form is not used, may, when recalling the incident in interview, have rendered Mr Suarez’s usage as the "tu" form, even if Mr Suarez used the "vos" form.

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