I'm to the point where I couldn't care less if he stays or goes. If he thinks he'll be better off in Turin, then good luck to him. I'm more concerned about the players who want to play for United and for whom the club means something.
Paul Pogba
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I'm to the point where I couldn't care less if he stays or goes. If he thinks he'll be better off in Turin, then good luck to him. I'm more concerned about the players who want to play for United and for whom the club means something.
Pogba can leave and it won't be a big loss.Some of the caftards (devilish) are making sound like we're losing a world beater.If he doesn't wanna stay, he can feck off elsewhere
Any player who wants to leave because they want more money, without having made the slightest impact on the first team - can feck off
The baseball team I follow refuses to do business with one of the biggest agents in America. Won the championship a year ago.
Might serve a couple of them right to freeze them out and see how their clients like that.
Might serve a couple of them right to freeze them out and see how their clients like that.
That would be very interesting indeed.
Have a few clubs freeze the agent out completely and they'd soon lose thier power.
"Well yes, you should sign with me I'll get all the big clubs interested in you.... bare in mind though that United, Arsenal, Milan, Barca and Bayern will not enter any talks with me."
I literally couldn't care if this no mark leaves at all. If he wants to stay and play, then fantastic news. Get ready for the fight of your life. If you want to leave, then leave knowing you've never done anything of any value at United. I literally don't give a shit.
This. feck him if he leaves
So I'm assuming SAF didn't mention anything in the post match?
It works the same as anything else. If you get offered substantially more money to do the same job elsewhere, and your current employer isn't interested in matching it, you're going to bugger off.
Being Manchester United doesn't entitle the club to offer players below what they can get elsewhere and just expect them to sign on because "we're Manchester United". It doesn't work like that. Especially not when it's with someone you lured away from their club with the promise of more money in the first place.
It doesn't matter if it's Paul Pogba or Wayne Rooney. The principle is the same. There's a going rate for players and you either choose to keep up with it or you lose out. Trying to blame the players when you choose the later is arrogant...how many players would be allowed to walk out the door before the club woke up?
If we can't afford the going rate then that's just tough titties for us, but if we're trying to play some kind of game with this, then we're being stupid in the extreme.
Doesn't look like it. Latest rumour is that Fergie told Pogba and Fryers to sign by the end of the week or never play for United again. Only one person mentioning it from what I can see so is most likely bollocks: https://twitter.com/#!/W3104_/status/172741392773287939
In sort of related news Fryers has deleted his twitter account tonight: https://twitter.com/efryers
Of course it matters, you wanna (from the executive's perspective) do your best to keep your most vital or important players.Players can only earn so much.Pogba wasn't deemed to be worth more than what he was offered.
?
I don't agree with this.
Being Manchester United should mean something, as we offer a player much more than money. We offer a world class footballing opportunity that only two or three other clubs can match. I keep reading all over the board that football is a job, and that players go where the money is just like me or you would do in our working lives, but such an attitude a United player does not make. The world's top football clubs do not want players who consider the game as being just a job, or at least, they should not want such players, as players taking that attitude will never amount to anything, they'll never play for anybody but themselves, and that's not a desirable trait in a team sport. It's not arrogant to view Manchester United as a special club, we've earned that accolade over the decades, it's not arrogance that causes us to believe players should consider wearing our shirt an honour, it's a reasonable and justified expectation, one which has been at the very root of the club's success. United players should be proud and they should be appreciative of their position in the game; it's a give and take relationship, you give the club your all and you'll be rewarded with a lucrative contract and potential legendary status, but you have to earn your way here, you have to show dedication and fight, and our top earners have each done just that. Players like Morrison and Pogba have done nothing for the club, and seem ignorant of the opportunity we offer(ed) them, and yet they demand they be allowed to take before they've given; it's fair to say then that these players are not cut out to play for United, that they don't make the grade, as ability alone does not bring greatness and glory to a football club as fine standing as ours, only when combined with dedication, passion and pride will a football player become a United player, fail to show those qualities and you're just an also-ran who will be free to join another club and win a haul of trophies more miserly by an order of magnitude. This isn't arrogance, it's the United way.
I don't agree with this.
Being Manchester United should mean something, as we offer a player much more than money. We offer a world class footballing opportunity that only two or three other clubs can match. I keep reading all over the board that football is a job, and that players go where the money is just like me or you would do in our working lives, but such an attitude a United player does not make. The world's top football clubs do not want players who consider the game as being just a job, or at least, they should not want such players, as players taking that attitude will never amount to anything, they'll never play for anybody but themselves, and that's not a desirable trait in a team sport. It's not arrogant to view Manchester United as a special club, we've earned that accolade over the decades, it's not arrogance that causes us to believe players should consider wearing our shirt an honour, it's a reasonable and justified expectation, one which has been at the very root of the club's success. United players should be proud and they should be appreciative of their position in the game; it's a give and take relationship, you give the club your all and you'll be rewarded with a lucrative contract and potential legendary status, but you have to earn your way here, you have to show dedication and fight, and our top earners have each done just that. Players like Morrison and Pogba have done nothing for the club, and seem ignorant of the opportunity we offer(ed) them, and yet they demand they be allowed to take before they've given; it's fair to say then that these players are not cut out to play for United, that they don't make the grade, as ability alone does not bring greatness and glory to a football club as fine standing as ours, only when combined with dedication, passion and pride will a football player become a United player, fail to show those qualities and you're just an also-ran who will be free to join another club and win a haul of trophies more miserly by an order of magnitude. This isn't arrogance, it's the United way.
Brava! Brava!
Exactly what I've been trying to say, but done eloquently better than anything I would have put.
My thing with this situation is that we're all just speculating as to what is going on behind the scenes. We've little idea really if this is about money or game time. It could be both as well. I don't think we can hold it against Pogba if he feels he should get a better deal. Whether that deal means more money or game time or both. I hope he stays but if he doesn't then so be it. I hear what noodle is saying though too. I just hope if he does leave that we won't regret it in the long run.
I agree with you ciderman.
If Pogba honestly hasn't got the foresight, as a young central midfielder in a club where central midfield is the one area we probably have an opening for a young player coming through, to take whatever he's given and fight for a place in the team, then good fecking riddance.
I don't want a young player who despite making a couple of sub-appearances, mostly below the standard required of a United-squad player, think's he's worthy of getting paid whatever he wants. He's done virtually feck all to dictate wage expectations.
He should be grateful he gets the chance at a top club, and you will not get a better chance to break into a United-side than Pogba's got at the moment.
Everyone knows playing for Manchester United is potentially very, very lucrative. If Pogba breaks through, and show the right kind of character and mentality we expect from a young aspiring player(see Welbeck/Cleverley/Evans etc) he'll get paid more than enough. When he's earned his contract. Not when he thinks of himself as some sort of superstar who United should be desperate to keep hold of. That's excactly the character Sir Alex will not be looking for in a player.
Its honestly baffling how stupid some of these kids are.
If Pogba honestly hasn't got the foresight, as a young central midfielder in a club where central midfield is the one area we probably have an opening for a young player coming through, to take whatever he's given and fight for a place in the team, then good fecking riddance.
I don't want a young player who despite making a couple of sub-appearances, mostly below the standard required of a United-squad player, think's he's worthy of getting paid whatever he wants. He's done virtually feck all to dictate wage expectations.
He should be grateful he gets the chance at a top club, and you will not get a better chance to break into a United-side than Pogba's got at the moment.
Everyone knows playing for Manchester United is potentially very, very lucrative. If Pogba breaks through, and show the right kind of character and mentality we expect from a young aspiring player(see Welbeck/Cleverley/Evans etc) he'll get paid more than enough. When he's earned his contract. Not when he thinks of himself as some sort of superstar who United should be desperate to keep hold of. That's excactly the character Sir Alex will not be looking for in a player.
Its honestly baffling how stupid some of these kids are.
I know this is a shot in the dark, but have we considered that might very well not have anything to do with money as such. I mean, I don't think United will offer him peanuts as such. Sure, Juventus might offer him more but maybe the key to all of this is game time. Game time means that he can get the opportunity to showcase his skills and work hard for that lucrative contract at United. I don't know, I'm just saying we not privvy to the reasons as to why there's a hold up on this.
If Sir Alex thought he showed the right attitude, mentality, as well as performing well in training, there's absolutely no way in hell he wouldn't have got the chance during our central midfield crisis. We played Rafael and Park in CM against Blackburn for crying out loud. This tells me that for some reason or another, Ferguson is reluctant to play Pogba. And I don't think it's ability alone.
If he isn't prepared to work hard for his chance, honestly, he can feck right off as far as I'm concerned.
That's a great post; says it all.
Chap on twitter (not m16) who is usually reliable said that pogba wants to stay but the club are trying to keep him on the cheap. He's also worried about getting playing time and waters are muddied further by the fact that united are refusing to pay his agent a fee for the contract renewal. So it's not as simple as saying "he doesn't want to stay, feck him".
I consider paying Pogba his wage demands cheaper than trying to replace his level of talent at his age with another player. As someone mentioned Phil Jones got 55k/year deal when he was signed as a 19-year-old.
Well said cider.
It's seems fairly obvious that the lad is being poorly advised.
At this stage in his career, money shouldn't be an issue. If he breaks into the team and establishes himself, his contract will be renegotiated from there.
If football has gotten to the stage where youth prospects are demanding lucrative contracts then it is fecked.
It's seems fairly obvious that the lad is being poorly advised.
At this stage in his career, money shouldn't be an issue. If he breaks into the team and establishes himself, his contract will be renegotiated from there.
If football has gotten to the stage where youth prospects are demanding lucrative contracts then it is fecked.
And as many people have already said on here, Phil Jones was already an established 1st team player at a Premier League side.
Phil Jones had played Premiership football for two years.
Pogba has done decently in a 20-minute cameo against opposition that was well beaten already, playing alongside Michael Carrick and Paul Scholes in CM.
Difference is though that jones showed what he could do in the premier league over a season for Blackburn and then enhanced his reputation at the u21 tournament. Pogba has done nothing. Hes had two cup games where he was average and one good cameo in a game where we were comfortable. If he is asking for money then that's wrong. He hasn't done anything to justify it. That's the point. We can't get to a point where we start paying big before players have even done anything. It will be more expensive to bring someone else in but it's the principle of the situation for me. If Pogba stays and does well then he'll get his pay rise. He only has to look at this season where Hernandez, cle and welbeck all got pay rises because they performed.
What a stupid post.
Phil Jones is a first team regular. If Pogba in his first year becomes a first team regular he will see his contract and wages quickly upgraded.
On the cheap, I doubt it, they will have offered him a contract that would be huge by anyones standards that means the club will constantly try to develop him into the player they want him to be (which is held in very regard), he will have been offered 1000's per week and once he proves his worth he will be rewarded very quickly with an improved contract, if he takes his time to develop they will loan him out to other teams. He will get as much game time as he could possibly want and trying to demand game time as a concern is the same as wages for me. His agent can get to feck. So it is as simple as saying he doesn't want to stay. He will be rewarded with a life that many can only dream off.
That seems strange, it's fairly common practice for clubs to pay agent fees in these circumstances, why would United refuse in this case?
Or, more likely, this chap has no idea either.
We don't know what the agent is demanding either, so it may be a case of here's our offer accept it or go. They don't like it,they want gurantees, more money etc so they say the club is at fault. These are youth players, they don't deserve to give demands on jack shit.
I'd love to know how these ITK gimps define "on the cheap" versus "not on the cheap". Are they privy to the actual sums being discussed on the proposed contract? Somehow I doubt it.
No idea really, maybe it's because it's that cnut Raiola being involved and the club doesn't want to deal with him?
IF he's been offered more elsewhere then the basic rule is you either match it, or close to match it, or you accept that he's going to bugger off. This is the risk we take by bringing in young players from abroad. The only real way around it is to not be stupid enough to let players contracts run into their final year when you want to keep them. As soon as you do that you've played yourself a hand of jokers and have to either put up or shut up.
This is naive Cider. Almost any player at this level will have an obscene amount of self belief and dedication. Manchester United don't hold some trump card over other clubs. Maybe over clubs like Middlesbrough or West Brom, but not over other big name European teams. There are certainly a fair few more than "two or three" who fall into that category.
If I had a job I was passionate about, it wouldn't stop me from going somewhere else to do the same job if the somewhere else offered me much better terms on which to do so.
and it is arrogance to think otherwise. Blind arrogance...Wayne Rooney cared more about money than playing for United. Ronaldo only ever played for himself, and he's not doing too badly. Players at United need to give a feck about winning things and getting the best out of themselves...when it comes down to it, they give much less of a feck than you'd like to think about playing for Manchester United.
I thought it was pretty obvious that Ravel being shifted out had nothing to do with money and everything to do with him being a nuisance, too. I doubt he was offered any form of contract to turn down in the first place. Different scenario entirely.
Pogba is by all accounts a model professional. I'm not sure what any of the stick he's getting in this thread is based on.
I'm not sure what the midfield crisis has to do with anything either...even in the game when Rafael and Park played in central midfield, we could easily have just played Anderson and Carrick there instead. Last night Park was selected ahead of Carrick, Scholes and Giggs. There's no point trying to apply any logic to it.
I'm not convinced he would even have been left out last night due to contract issues either...everyone in the squad was a senior player. Pogba isn't. It's just that there is obviously an issue with his contract and I don't like the idea that we've got our heads buried in the sand, thinking we should be viewed as some kind of holy grail to players who can more or less choose which club they want to sign for.
Multi-quotes have started. RUN!
Wayne Rooney and Christiano Ronaldo are 2 of the best players in the world. We're talking about apprentices here.
And yet a load of gimps on the Internet continue to make declarations about what is going on without any knowledge of the situation at all.
fecking hell. Absolutely shocking to read this from a United fan. It's as though the last decade never happened.
Surely to Christ you're aware of our record both domestically and in the Champions League over the last 10 years or so? And you really think you should be mentioning Boro and West Brom as the most appropriate examples of the tier immediately beneath us?
Unbelievable.
Correct. You cross-posted a tweet from one such gimp in your previous post.
Brilliant post Ciderman. You get to the heart of the matter here very well.
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