I agree with that. I think he could do with getting a few more goals but playing deep and keeping the ball he looks very good under pressure.
Luka Modric / Signs for Real Madrid
- Thread starter Sassy Colin
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I agree with that. I think he could do with getting a few more goals but playing deep and keeping the ball he looks very good under pressure.
There was some talk about rumours that we were interested in him on the Radio this morning, it sounded like general shit stirring to me, with no source whatsoever.
Stop moving the goal posts you 2, you said "rarely does selling your best players lead to any good", and I provided you with plenty of examples.
You didn't say "if you're a team not in the CL". However, if they are the new rules, I gave you Andy Carroll....
Pretty certain there are plenty more examples too.
How am I moving the goal posts? In my post, I said clubs at the level of Aston Villa/Seville/Spurs. Clubs who are on the outside of the new order of CL clubs and looking to enter consistently. They build good teams, look like they're are about to do something, get their players tapped up and leave and then are back to square one.
Have you read the posts I made? I said its a cycle. You get away with doing it once or twice (Seville did it many times, we eventually did it with Carrick and Modric) but eventually you can no longer sustain it.
Carroll was not Newcastle's best player. He had one decent season in the championship and one very good half season in the premier league. Like Ricketts. Then Liverpool offered an outrageous amount. If someone offered 25 million for Jenas tomorrow, I'd laugh and piggyback him there myself.
But it worked for Newcastle once. As I said, teams at this level tend to get away with it once/twice/three times. Sell Cabaye and Ba/Cisse this summer and we'll see how they do.
Its of course a silly argument anyway because the clear best option is to keep your best players. Its why the top clubs don't tend to sell their best players every summer.
Ah ok, get your point african, no you can't sell your best players every year. I don't think selling Modric now would be that bad for you though, not if you reinvested all the money into another centre mid and a better contract for Bale.
The reason for posting examples of clubs that have sold their best players was because MikeUpNorth wrote, "yeah it happens rarely, United with Van Nistelrooy but it's the exception" or something like that, I didn't actually read all of your post.
The reason for posting examples of clubs that have sold their best players was because MikeUpNorth wrote, "yeah it happens rarely, United with Van Nistelrooy but it's the exception" or something like that, I didn't actually read all of your post.
Fair enough.
I'm torn about how badly his departure would affect us. He's one of the best cms in the league for sure (and I believe your manager has said similar) and his ability on the ball is vital to how we play at the moment.
On the other hand, while statistics are obviously not everything with footbal and as a deep lying playmaker, it isn't his job to score goals etc, perhaps we could replace him with a cm that racks up more numbers. One that is more direct and change the way we play.
But it is always going to be risky. 4 years later and we're still not even close to replacing Berbatov.
Does anyone actually believe we're interested in him?
I *want* to believe.
But no, probably not.
But no, probably not.
I didnt even make the original post. I was merely pointing out the difference in the examples you stated and the modric scenario at Spurs. After the reasons i've given, would you still say they would have been better off selling him last summer or even this summer?
Only from when fergie said he was the best player in the league 2 years back or whenever it was, but i dont think we have ever had any solid interest.
Personally dont think we like doing business with Levy after the last 2 attempts
To answer your question pocco, we might be. There was talk of the funds for the Hazard transfer being reshuffled to getting Modric if Hazard decided not to come but no confirmed approach afaik
I don't, but then I believe we'll never, ever again sign a central-midfielder again after the last few seasons so
He could do so much for us though, but the length of his contract gives Spurs too much power - why he'd sign such a deal if he had any thought of moving on is strange.
Where?
Rubbish, as Ive said all along Hazard has never been on our radar, the agent may well of called us up and given us the "Eden wants to play for Manchester United, he's a lifelong fan" but it was always bullshit, he wanted a bidding war and to a certain extent he got it. The frenzy over his last game hat trick could not have happened at a greater time. Chelsea wanted him (before City) and with City's obvious interest they got out the cheque book, City told him to feck off. United didn't even answer the phone.
The source is this forum, but before long SAF will be convinced hopefully and then only God knows
Sir Alex already rates him highly, which suggests that theres a reason why we arent in for him. Possibly Spurs are expecting way too much money or because of what he said about wanting to stay in London when Chelsea were in for him.
How do we know we aren't planning or already enquiring about a move for Modric?
Sometimes you have to pay what is needed for what you need. We did it for Rio, De Gea and Carrick to an extent. Now is the right time to bite the bullet on Modric - it's the right thing that we need at the right time
Sometimes you have to pay what is needed for what you need. We did it for Rio, De Gea and Carrick to an extent. Now is the right time to bite the bullet on Modric - it's the right thing that we need at the right time
Irish journo Miguel Delaney (ESPN, independent) was talking last week on Twitter about his "source" at Old Trafford telling him that if the deal for Hazard didn't come off then the funds would be reallocated for Modric. No idea how reliable he is but that could be where the recent rumours have come from.
It's only made it onto the official website.
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...-to-launch-big-money-bid-for-luka-modric.aspx
It's in the "Papers" section on the website. All year round the transfer rubbish gets shoved in there.
It's for "entertainment puposes only".
It's for "entertainment puposes only".
I thought as much...
So you're saying that Redcafe has influenced SAF?
Stumbled across it on some news websites. It was mere speculation though
You act like you know we werent in for hazard. If so prove it. Afaik, we were but he didnt choose us and we werent wavering from our offer.
That's a pretty bold claim you're making but I hope it's not based off of the disappointment that he didn't sign for us.
This thread needs some videos, gifs and pics.
Of course it's a bold claim now you've bolded it!
Interesting article on deep laying playmakers...
http://www.just-football.com/2012/0..._campaign=Feed:+Just-football+(Just-Football)
With the death of the traditional number 10 many of Europe’s top sides have looked to other areas of the pitch for the creative spark, which has seen the rise of the ‘inverted forward’ or ‘inverted play-maker,’ who dictates the play from wider positions.
As well as this we have seen the number 10 move back to a number 6 with the rise of the deep-lying play-maker. Players that look to collect the ball off the back four or keeper and spread the play from deep positions.
The emergence of deep-lying playmakers
As stated, traditionally sides would play a number 10 trequartista player who was usually not massively mobile but incredibly technically gifted. Players like Juan Roman Riquelme epitomize this role. However tactical trends, mainly the relative decline of the 4-4-2 have seen teams play with 3 centre midfielders, often with two holding players rather than one which makes marking a number 10 a lot easier than was previously the case.
With it harder to get space in this format many playmakers moved deeper, such as Andrea Pirlo who was once a number 10 at Internazionale but is now a quintessential deep-lying playmaker having been moved to a deeper midfield role by Carlo Ancelotti at AC Milan.
Rui Costa also operated in this position, moving there whilst playing for Milan. These players enjoy more time on the ball due to operating closer to their own goals. Often they’d operate alongside a midfield destroyer such as how Javier Mascherano worked in tandem with Xabi Alonso to such great effect at Liverpool under Rafa Benitez.
Juventus who won Serie A have a deep-lying playmaker in Pirlo as do La Liga winners Real Madrid in Alonso and Barcelona in Xavi. Funnily enough Pirlo was released on a free by Milan who failed to adequately replace him, which contributed to the clubs lack of success this season. Below is a statistical representation of some of Europe’s foremost deep-lying playmakers in 2011/2012:
http://www.just-football.com/soccer-blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/12-season.jpg
The style of play for the deep lying playmaker is represented well here – incredibly large number of passes per game, high pass completion accuracy and a high number of long balls per game.
These players pick the ball up in deep positions and look to spread the play. This is what explains the high number of ‘long balls’. It is in fact not a negative aspect of long ball football but merely helps spread the play left or right, hitting the flanks as well as playing balls in behind for instinctive strikers. Xavi for example is able to pick out the movement of players such as Lionel Messi or Alexis Sanchez who dart in behind opposition defences.
Pirlo has been in wonderful form this season which is largely why Juventus won Serie A. His stats are astoundingly good with a high number of key passes and a huge 13 assists. Of course he does take set-pieces which adds to this but his technical ability in this role is unquestionable and he has been one of the best here for a long time.
With Rafael Van Der Vaart playing as a support striker for Tottenham, Luka Modric almost sits next to Scott Parker at times (more a destroyer type midfielder) in deeper positions, his game revolving around playing balls in behind opposition defences or playing it out wide for Gareth Bale or Aaron Lennon to run onto.
Typically though the role is not as common in the Premier League where sides often tend to opt for destroyers as well as box-to-box players such as Yaya Toure at Manchester City.
In Spain where a high pressing game is implemented, the destroyer may quickly win it back from the opposition, supply the deep lying play maker who will then switch to an attack in a matter of seconds. Modric and Michael Carrick, despite being listed here, are as much if not more central midfielders than holding players as others listed are.
Mikel Arteta has probably been the exception, the deepest lying Arsenal midfielder which will surprise many as Song is traditionally seen as a holding player. In many of the clubs attacks he tends to sit very deep dictating the play from just in front of the back four to great effect.
With regards the Premier League, Champions League winners Chelsea lack a player in this mould as John Obi Mikel contributes little in an attacking sense and doesn’t complete as many passes as the above stated players, which explains the clubs relentless pursuit for Modric last summer. Manchester City also use an inverted forward in Silva to instigate their attacks, although Yaya, whilst naturally a box-to-box player does have a good range of passing.
At Bayern Munich, Bastian Schweinsteiger arguably plays a bit further forward also but with the 4-2-3-1 adopted by Munich he is part of the 2; with the likes of Kroos, Ribery and Robben given license to attack in front of him he usually sits a bit deeper and spreads the play to these more advanced players.
Conclusion
Speculation is mounting regarding Modric’s future at Spurs. If he is bought it would likely be for around £30-40 million, which on the face of it seems an awful lot of money.
However if we consider that many of the players featured above are playing for some of the world’s best sides in Juventus, Bayern Munich, Manchester United, Barcelona and Real Madrid it becomes clear that the deep lying playmaker is of central importance to clubs’ success in the modern game. Especially in the context of the decline of the number 10.
This summer it would not be surprising if sides like Chelsea and City made big offers for Modric or other young players who can fill this role adequately. Teams are looking for various players to provide spark as well as help keep control of the ball, in a age where possession play and ball retention are central tenants to many sides’ footballing philosophy.
http://www.just-football.com/2012/0..._campaign=Feed:+Just-football+(Just-Football)
With the death of the traditional number 10 many of Europe’s top sides have looked to other areas of the pitch for the creative spark, which has seen the rise of the ‘inverted forward’ or ‘inverted play-maker,’ who dictates the play from wider positions.
As well as this we have seen the number 10 move back to a number 6 with the rise of the deep-lying play-maker. Players that look to collect the ball off the back four or keeper and spread the play from deep positions.
The emergence of deep-lying playmakers
As stated, traditionally sides would play a number 10 trequartista player who was usually not massively mobile but incredibly technically gifted. Players like Juan Roman Riquelme epitomize this role. However tactical trends, mainly the relative decline of the 4-4-2 have seen teams play with 3 centre midfielders, often with two holding players rather than one which makes marking a number 10 a lot easier than was previously the case.
With it harder to get space in this format many playmakers moved deeper, such as Andrea Pirlo who was once a number 10 at Internazionale but is now a quintessential deep-lying playmaker having been moved to a deeper midfield role by Carlo Ancelotti at AC Milan.
Rui Costa also operated in this position, moving there whilst playing for Milan. These players enjoy more time on the ball due to operating closer to their own goals. Often they’d operate alongside a midfield destroyer such as how Javier Mascherano worked in tandem with Xabi Alonso to such great effect at Liverpool under Rafa Benitez.
Juventus who won Serie A have a deep-lying playmaker in Pirlo as do La Liga winners Real Madrid in Alonso and Barcelona in Xavi. Funnily enough Pirlo was released on a free by Milan who failed to adequately replace him, which contributed to the clubs lack of success this season. Below is a statistical representation of some of Europe’s foremost deep-lying playmakers in 2011/2012:
http://www.just-football.com/soccer-blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/12-season.jpg
The style of play for the deep lying playmaker is represented well here – incredibly large number of passes per game, high pass completion accuracy and a high number of long balls per game.
These players pick the ball up in deep positions and look to spread the play. This is what explains the high number of ‘long balls’. It is in fact not a negative aspect of long ball football but merely helps spread the play left or right, hitting the flanks as well as playing balls in behind for instinctive strikers. Xavi for example is able to pick out the movement of players such as Lionel Messi or Alexis Sanchez who dart in behind opposition defences.
Pirlo has been in wonderful form this season which is largely why Juventus won Serie A. His stats are astoundingly good with a high number of key passes and a huge 13 assists. Of course he does take set-pieces which adds to this but his technical ability in this role is unquestionable and he has been one of the best here for a long time.
With Rafael Van Der Vaart playing as a support striker for Tottenham, Luka Modric almost sits next to Scott Parker at times (more a destroyer type midfielder) in deeper positions, his game revolving around playing balls in behind opposition defences or playing it out wide for Gareth Bale or Aaron Lennon to run onto.
Typically though the role is not as common in the Premier League where sides often tend to opt for destroyers as well as box-to-box players such as Yaya Toure at Manchester City.
In Spain where a high pressing game is implemented, the destroyer may quickly win it back from the opposition, supply the deep lying play maker who will then switch to an attack in a matter of seconds. Modric and Michael Carrick, despite being listed here, are as much if not more central midfielders than holding players as others listed are.
Mikel Arteta has probably been the exception, the deepest lying Arsenal midfielder which will surprise many as Song is traditionally seen as a holding player. In many of the clubs attacks he tends to sit very deep dictating the play from just in front of the back four to great effect.
With regards the Premier League, Champions League winners Chelsea lack a player in this mould as John Obi Mikel contributes little in an attacking sense and doesn’t complete as many passes as the above stated players, which explains the clubs relentless pursuit for Modric last summer. Manchester City also use an inverted forward in Silva to instigate their attacks, although Yaya, whilst naturally a box-to-box player does have a good range of passing.
At Bayern Munich, Bastian Schweinsteiger arguably plays a bit further forward also but with the 4-2-3-1 adopted by Munich he is part of the 2; with the likes of Kroos, Ribery and Robben given license to attack in front of him he usually sits a bit deeper and spreads the play to these more advanced players.
Conclusion
Speculation is mounting regarding Modric’s future at Spurs. If he is bought it would likely be for around £30-40 million, which on the face of it seems an awful lot of money.
However if we consider that many of the players featured above are playing for some of the world’s best sides in Juventus, Bayern Munich, Manchester United, Barcelona and Real Madrid it becomes clear that the deep lying playmaker is of central importance to clubs’ success in the modern game. Especially in the context of the decline of the number 10.
This summer it would not be surprising if sides like Chelsea and City made big offers for Modric or other young players who can fill this role adequately. Teams are looking for various players to provide spark as well as help keep control of the ball, in a age where possession play and ball retention are central tenants to many sides’ footballing philosophy.
Bob Cass @Bob_Cass
To all United inquiries. Fergie does business when he thinks it's right. He passed up on Sneijder and Hazard. And he will with Modric ...
http://twitter.com/#!/bob_cass
To all United inquiries. Fergie does business when he thinks it's right. He passed up on Sneijder and Hazard. And he will with Modric ...
http://twitter.com/#!/bob_cass
I don't think Modric is inconceivable; SAF is a known admirer, Modric wants CL football and the chaos at Spurs lead me to think that if we are going to sign a proper central midfielder then this is the most likely.
I'm seriously hoping that we don't sign him.
Why?
He's better than anyone we currently have in central midfield.
Along with Kagawa, he'd improve our midfield by a considerable amount.
No problem at all with us signing him, I would just hate to spend all summer chasing him then miss out leaving no time to talk to anyone else.
Could you explain why?
Couldn't think of a better thread to put it in, but I'm entering new muppet levels - yes - a starting XI based on muppet signings. Here goes:
----------Welbeck-------
--Young---Kagawa---Nani
-------Carrick---Modric---
Alba---Vidic---Ferdinand-Clyne
*opens Fifa case*
----------Welbeck-------
--Young---Kagawa---Nani
-------Carrick---Modric---
Alba---Vidic---Ferdinand-Clyne
*opens Fifa case*Modric would be great but the more urgent need is someone who is defensively strong, doesn' have to be a dm, just someone who can defend well as well as contribute offensively. When everyone is fit we have plenty of attacking options in Scholes, Clev, Ando and Giggs. We have only 2 players who are capable defensively and one of them might not even play again.
I think Modric would be a very good player for us, but he will be 27 in september and we'll have to pay in excess of 30M and have to deal with Spurs again, so I'm not sure if it would be good business.
I'd rather we shell out a similar amount of money on a proven player around 22-24 - Javi Martinez as just an example!
I'd rather we shell out a similar amount of money on a proven player around 22-24 - Javi Martinez as just an example!
I dont think 27 is too old for a player like Modric, get him on a 4 year contract and by the end of it he'll only be as old as Carrick is now
I would love to get Modric but it's not something we should lose any sleep over. I think with time and experience, Cleverley can do everything Modric can. I would love to see a midfield 3 of Carrick, Cleverley and Kagawa. I think the potential interchanges between Cleverley and Kagawa would be particularly exciting. I'd be loathe to stall Clev's development by putting Modric in the team instead of him.