Berbatov | Fulham player

mightberight said:
He started one of the two home games that we lost. The other loss was against City, and short of Berbatov becoming Berbabauer after Evans sending off, I can't see what impact he could have had.

And your last two sentences seem to contradict each other.

Sorry mate, but I can't quite grasp your point
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thats not fair. he was good against blackburn and hes much closerf to roonedy in the hole compared to our options last season. you cant put the blame on him for that.

with kagawa coming i think he should go for both him and the club but he did everything right he could last season and may well have been
the diff
 
Ismail Elezi said:
Well, Berba had played only about 10 games this season, with Kagawa here this number can only be decreased. Powell and Macheda surely that are not ready yet, but they can play in some unimportant matches like league cup when Berbatov played this year sometimes.

3 others + Chicharito is not a valid point. Again you are forgetting Kagawa. We all know that Rooney, Welbeck, Chicha and Kagawa will fight for 2 positions. So if Berbatov stays there will be 4 + Chicharito which is too much. Also, there have been a year and a half since Chicharito is higher in pecking order than Berbatov. I also don't agree that Chicha should be used mostly as a substitute. He was extremely good in his first season here (IMO much better than Berbatov) and far more consistent than him. Also, much better in big matches. He scored many important goals when he started, against Stoke away 2 times, Stoke home, Everton home, Marseille home 2 times, Chelsea home 2 times etc. He is very good as a starter. A bad year that was mainly due to the injuries and him not having a full pre-season and not having a proper rest doesn't make him a bench player and lower in pecking order than Berbatov. With Welbeck and Rooney tired from EURO, I really think that Chicha will be in our first 11 more often than last season, surprassing Welbeck in pecking order.

Also, I don't think that we need that much Berbatov experience, we have many other experienced players. Rooney, Nani, Valencia, Young and to a degree Chicha are not anymore that young that we need an experienced forward. Also, if I remember correctly his experience didn't helped us that much when we mostly needed him (end of the season 2011). For all his experience he didn't make even in the bench in final of UCL in his best season here.



Seriously, this is one of the most hyperbolic sentences I have ever seen. Berbatov one of the most talented footballers in the world?! FFS.
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:rolleyes:

I dont know who you are but I know I don't like you vey much :)
 
Beachryan said:
He is genuinely one of the most talented footballers in the world. He deserves to be on a pitch somewhere.
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I think you may be overrating him just a tad.

RedDevilCanuck said:
We would have won the league had Berbatov started more home games.
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I think many have selective memories about Berbs.

Its like saying William Prunier was a great defender. Because I choose only to remember his game against QPR but choose to forget the game against Spurs.

Or remembering Taibi against Liverpool but forgetting his performances against Chelsea and Southampton.

Obviously Berbatov would be on a wider scale, but the guy has put in many disgracefully inept performances for this club that have now apparently slipped from memory.

I think we would have won the league in 2010 and the FA Cup in 2009 if he was allowed nowhere near the team.

The bad has far, far outweighed the good in his 4 years and last season he hung around like a bad smell.
 
For "one of the most talented footballers in the World", he's been in a squad in the Champions League final 3 times, with 2 different clubs. He started on the bench in 2 finals and was left out of the squad altogether in the 3rd.

A sexy first touch doesn't make you one of the most talented footballers in the World.
 
Aside from a few people no one really hates Berbatov. I'm sure most people wanted him to succeed.

I never wanted Berbatov at the club. I didn't want Valencia either but am glad he is at the club now. I never got that same feeling with Berbatov half a season aside.

His big issue was he never really looked like he would hit it off with Rooney over a period of time. Least that's how it looked like.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Aside from a few people no one really hates Berbatov. I'm sure most people wanted him to succeed.

I never wanted Berbatov at the club. I didn't want Valencia either but am glad he is at the club now. I never got that same feeling with Berbatov half a season aside.
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I don't think he's been given a fair go though. He was brilliant first half of last season then relegated to the bench for the rest and last season never got a look in. It certainly hasn't worked out as I envisaged .
 
EricaNo7 said:
I don't think he's been given a fair go though. He was brilliant first half of last season then relegated to the bench for the rest and last season never got a look in. It certainly hasn't worked out as I envisaged .
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I actually agree he's probably not been given a "fair" go. But you could arguably say that about a number of players. He never had the team built around him in the same way it was when Rooney was completely bang off form. When Rooney started to produce something, the team reverted to being built round Rooney rather than Berbatov and the latter couldn't really get a look in.

I never saw it working out for Berbatov to be honest. Fergie kept him around longer than I thought too.
 
He's had a fair go and plenty of opportunities in his first two seasons. For whatever reason he failed to get SAF's trust for the really big occasions.

Even the season he was top scorer, SAF I remember had a go at him for his poor form away from home. We were really poor as a team away from home all season if people remember but I do remember SAF singling out Rooney and Berba.

When the chips were down it seemed SAF trusted Hernandez to produce something more than Berba. And Hernandez delivered more often than not that season.

But I put the blame for this on Berba not on SAF. It was his job to make himself undropable.

Last season he should've probably played more especially with Javier's poor form. But I reckon by then SAF had probably moved on and was looking to the future.
 
EricaNo7 said:
It's not that I dislike people who don't share my views, I just can never understand how someone can hate a United player ( particularly one as delicious as his Berbaness )
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I never said that I hate him, he didn't kill my dog when it was sleeping.

Simply I don't like him as a footballer and I think that he almost everytime didn't perform as we would like. He was a floop in big matches (expect that game against Liverpool) and he was a floop in Champions League. We have Rooney, Welbeck, Chicha and now Kagawa who are better and so there is not place for him in our team. Also from his wages that are around 5M and his eventual sell we can earn 12-13M which can be investet in our team, and I would choose every time this, than having a player with a great first touch who doesn't even make the bench.
 
EricaNo7 said:
Yes, especially in the year we won the league and was top scorer :)
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This season??...

Ole's_toe_poke said:
Even the season he was top scorer, SAF I remember had a go at him for his poor form away from home. We were really poor as a team away from home all season if people remember but I do remember SAF singling out Rooney and Berba.

When the chips were down it seemed SAF trusted Hernandez to produce something more than Berba. And Hernandez delivered more often than not that season.
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Ismail Elezi said:
I never said that I hate him, he didn't kill my dog when it was sleeping.

Simply I don't like him as a footballer and I think that he almost everytime didn't perform as we would like. He was a floop in big matches (expect that game against Liverpool) and he was a floop in Champions League. We have Rooney, Welbeck, Chicha and now Kagawa who are better and so there is not place for him in our team. Also from his wages that are around 5M and his eventual sell we can earn 12-13M which can be investet in our team, and I would choose every time this, than having a player with a great first touch who doesn't even make the bench.
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You always give me the impression that Berba has put a bad luck spell on your family or something :)
 
Bryan_Munich said:
Fergie clearly wanted to take the team in a new direction and Berbatov is a casualty of that.
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To be honest it was more down to Berbatov not impressing Fergie enough or in the right way than a change in direction

As someone above said it was up to Berbatov to make himself undroppable. He never did that in Fergies eyes (clearly).
 
Nah, Fergie is building a new team and wants to play with more pace and a more pressing style in my opinion, Berbatov doesn't fit into those plans.
 
Then we come down to our approach again, which even before final alternation was still focused on fast, mainly counter-attacking play. Player of Berbatov's characteristics was always going to find it extremely difficult to make himself undroppable. Granted he hasn't done everything he could, but still.

There are fantastic players who will never fit in certain teams. Look at RedCafe's beloved Zlatan at Barcelona. Wasn't as good as for manager to build the team around him, just like Berbatov's hasn't been. Simple.

He was eating teams alive at Tottenham, and did what he's criticised for (scoring against big teams) regularly, home and away. His record in Europe was very good as well, albeit in then Uefa Cup. It's not like he suddenly lost it overnight while coming here and it's not like Tottenham was his level - he was too good and deserving of playing for a team of our status.

Why don't we leave it for good and say Berbatov has all the talents in the world but simply can not fit into Fergie's conception and well-being of the team?
 
He just never reached the heights he did at tottenham, simples.

You look at the youtube highlight videos from his days in tottenham, stuff he did back then we never saw a shade of!.

The video in the Ibrahimovic thread where he does a bycicle kick through ball assist to robbie keane is majestic, exactly the sort of reason we paid £30M for.

But whatever reason he just does not seem the same person/player he was back then. Maybe he thought he had made it when getting his big move, and relaxed? Perhaps he had just gone passed his peak and we got unlucky.. who knows.

I think we all deep down love Berba, but we also know deep down that what he offers to us now isnt enough to keep him in the team.

His scoring record was always fine against teams at home when we had the majority of posession and play, but in away matches he looked so out of the game it was ridiculous.

I really do wish it could of worked out for him here, but im happy now for him to move on and give his career 1 last hoorah before he retires. He deserves that.
 
Tomuś said:
Then we come down to our approach again, which even before final alternation was still focused on fast, mainly counter-attacking play. Player of Berbatov's characteristics was always going to find it extremely difficult to make himself undroppable. Granted he hasn't done everything he could, but still.

There are fantastic players who will never fit in certain teams. Look at RedCafe's beloved Zlatan at Barcelona. Wasn't as good as for manager to build the team around him, just like Berbatov's hasn't been. Simple.

He was eating teams alive at Tottenham, and did what he's criticised for (scoring against big teams) regularly, home and away. His record in Europe was very good as well, albeit in then Uefa Cup. It's not like he suddenly lost it overnight while coming here and it's not like Tottenham was his level - he was too good and deserving of playing for a team of our status.

Why don't we leave it for good and say Berbatov has all the talents in the world but simply can not fit into Fergie's conception and well-being of the team?
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No he wasn't. 46 goals in 102 games (27 in 70 in league) is not 'eating team alives'. He was their star player and UEFA Cup is much esasier than UCL (Falcao scored 17 in 2010-2011 there). He was very good at Tottenham but eating team alives?! Give me a break! Di Natale, Forlan and even Gilardinho all have much better records in their respective leagues and no one here says for them that they're the most talented players in the world.
 
Bryan_Munich said:
Nah, Fergie is building a new team and wants to play with more pace and a more pressing style in my opinion, Berbatov doesn't fit into those plans.
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That wasnt the reason he wasn't even on the bench in the UCL final. SAF trusted Michael cnuting Owen to produce something more than he did Berba. Simple as.

He never had SAF's backing for the big games and I don't think that SAF's fault.
 
Ismail Elezi said:
No he wasn't. 46 goals in 102 games (27 in 70 in league) is not 'eating team alives'. He was their star player and UEFA Cup is much esasier than UCL (Falcao scored 17 in 2010-2011 there). He was very good at Tottenham but eating team alives?! Give me a break! Di Natale, Forlan and even Gilardinho all have much better records in their respective leagues and no one here says for them that they're the most talented players in the world.
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If you add his assists number to that, coupled with general build-up play and influence, it is eating teams alive.
 
Tomuś said:
If you add his assists number to that, coupled with general build-up play and influence, it is eating teams alive.
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Depends how you define it. If by eating team alive we are talking about Shearer, Henry, RVN, Drogba, Ronaldo, Torres in his first 2 years, Rooney in 2009/2010, RVP this year than surely Berbatov was not in the same rank.
 
Ismail Elezi said:
Depends how you define it. If by eating team alive we are talking about Shearer, Henry, RVN, Drogba, Ronaldo, Torres in his first 2 years, Rooney in 2009/2010, RVP this year than surely Berbatov was not in the same rank.
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See what you mean now and maybe you're right. He was doing it in his own right, though, and nobody who knows anything about football could say 'He isn't world-class' back then. Don't know if you watched Tottenham regularly - I did - and I can tell you you would kill to have a player like him, regardless of who you support. He was that special.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
That wasnt the reason he wasn't even on the bench in the UCL final. SAF trusted Michael cnuting Owen to produce something more than he did Berba. Simple as.

He never had SAF's backing for the big games and I don't think that SAF's fault.
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He actually played in plenty of big games in his first season. What he certainly didnt do is put in performances that meant the manager couldnt leave him out when big games came round.
 
Tomuś said:
See what you mean now and maybe you're right. He was doing it in his own right, though, and nobody who knows anything about football could say 'He isn't world-class' back then. Don't know if you watched Tottenham regularly - I did - and I can tell you you would kill to have a player like him, regardless of who you support. He was that special.
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Every few weeks.
 
Tomuś said:
See what you mean now and maybe you're right. He was doing it in his own right, though, and nobody who knows anything about football could say 'He isn't world-class' back then. Don't know if you watched Tottenham regularly - I did - and I can tell you you would kill to have a player like him, regardless of who you support. He was that special.
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Not exactly on his own. Robbie Keane was there and Barry too. Both of them were pretty good players then.

He was very good but never a world class, and I doubt that all teams would kill for him, only us and City wanted to get him.

Finally 27 goals in 70 (in league) matches is not great. I doubt that there is a world class striker with those statistics. Even Robbie Keane scored about the same amount of goals those 2 seasons (with some less games played). Not trying to say that Keane was as good as him (he wasn't), there is a myth about how Berbatov was that great at Tottenham.

And if someone who never watched football, will go in this thread and watch some comments about him they will think that he is the best player of all time, 3 levels above everyone.
 
Ismail Elezi said:
Not exactly on his own. Robbie Keane was there and Barry too. Both of them were pretty good players then
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Didn't see him? was any good?...wait.

Finally 27 goals in 70 (in league) matches is not great. I doubt that there is a world class striker with those statistics.
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No, nowadays you won't. The numbers are being hugely inflated by Messi and Ronaldo. Since when are his type of strikers judged only by goals scored? again, what about assists?

there is a myth about how Berbatov was that great at Tottenham.
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Yeah, a myth...

And if someone who never watched football, will go in this thread and watch some comments about him they will think that he is the best player of all time, 3 levels above everyone.
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Nope, what they will gather from it is that there was a player who impressed hugely at one club, went to the other and hasn't emulated the level. Leave hyperbole to Andy Gray.
 
Fergie got it wrong last summer in that he should have flogged Berba for 15 Mils as he was on fire and should have spent the money on a central midfielder possibly.
Berba like Veron just never fit in here and might be considerably more difficult to flog him for any decent amount of cash this summer
 
Ringo 07 said:
Fergie got it wrong last summer in that he should have flogged Berba for 15 Mils as he was on fire and should have spent the money on a central midfielder possibly.
Berba like Veron just never fit in here and might be considerably more difficult to flog him for any decent amount of cash this summer
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Could it be the case that SAF tried to sell him out but the Bulgarian insisted in remaining here and fight for his place?

The way Berba was treated this year reminds me alot of how Yorke was treated a couple of years back. SAF's wanted to sell him up to free some space for Di Canio. Everything was set up (the official mag had already designed the cover showing Di Canio as a United player) only for Yorke to pull the plug on any deal by refusing to leave United. Bottom line of the story, Yorke was given the cold shoulder from SAF and he was never given a realistic chance to win his place again.
 
I'm sure I read that Berbatovs record at united Is better than his record at Spurs

He's a classy player who should have played a bit more last season in the home games against lesser sides - who knows what a couple of goals would have done to our goal difference at the end of the season

The bottom line is that Berbatov doesn't fit in with our fast fluid style of play and based on his usage the last couple of seasons the manager doesn't trust him

He'll be on his way
 
Tomuś said:
Didn't see him? was any good?...wait.

No, nowadays you won't. The numbers are being hugely inflated by Messi and Ronaldo. Since when are his type of strikers judged only by goals scored? again, what about assists?

Yeah, a myth...



Nope, what they will gather from it is that there was a player who impressed hugely at one club, went to the other and hasn't emulated the level. Leave hyperbole to Andy Gray.
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I don't know why I thought that Barry was there, my mistake. Probably cause Pool tried to buy both of them, and then their fans (one of them my roommate) were saying that is not Rafa to blame for Keane's failure cause he wanted Barry too. Anyway no matter, still there were some other good players at Tottenham, and it was an above average team,

The numbers are inflated by Messi and Ronaldo but even there, Ronaldo scored 48 goals in 68 games, and he was still a winger. Drogba in Berba's best season there scored 20 goals. Torres scored 38 goals in 57 appearances, Henry 37 in 49. All of them much better than Berbatov. So even there his goal stats weren't that great.

Some here said that he is one of the most talented players in the world, some are saying that leaving him in our team but not playing regularly is a crime, and you are talking for him as he was one of the best players in the world when he was at Tottenham, which is a myth. Was he good? Yes. Was he the best, or one of the bests anytime, anywhere? No, not even near.

Finally, I agree that he was better at Tottenham than to us, and those 2 years (also in 2010-2011) he was one of the best strikers in the league. But you and many others are really exaggerating for him very much.
 
Tomuś said:
And who said he was doing it all ON his own?
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You, here:


Tomuś said:
See what you mean now and maybe you're right. He was doing it in his own right, though, and nobody who knows anything about football could say 'He isn't world-class' back then. Don't know if you watched Tottenham regularly - I did - and I can tell you you would kill to have a player like him, regardless of who you support. He was that special.
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