Messi's schooled in a style of football which would make the transition fairly easy for him. Perhaps the defensive side of his game he may need to make slight adjustments to, but on the ball I don't think there are many better players in the world at retaining possession. Scholes played as a pivot..Messi doesn't need to be hitting crossfield balls every other pass, purely because Barca's style of play doesn't demand it. He can take over Iniesta's position as the floating CM in the midfield trio and can travel with the ball as well as pick people out.
Messi is better than maradona....
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Messi's schooled in a style of football which would make the transition fairly easy for him. Perhaps the defensive side of his game he may need to make slight adjustments to, but on the ball I don't think there are many better players in the world at retaining possession. Scholes played as a pivot..Messi doesn't need to be hitting crossfield balls every other pass, purely because Barca's style of play doesn't demand it. He can take over Iniesta's position as the floating CM in the midfield trio and can travel with the ball as well as pick people out.
There's actually a big difference between playing the killer creative final pass, something which Giggs you could argue did twice against Chelsea and once against Barca, and controlling a football match. Messi does a lot of the former, his final ball has improved so much it's insane. But whether he can make the transition to someone who can control the game, we don't know. Given his talent he probably can but there is a difference between the two.
As good a place as any for this. press mute and fire away.....
Barcelona won't play that style of football forever. Football adapts and changes. I half expect Ferguson to work on a hybrid of their style encompassing good wing play and defense in to it. The current problem 'if it has one' of the Barcelona style, is that if you can counteract the massive pressure with great defense, they have nothing left to attack you with. If you can break them down in the last 3rd, they have very little in terms of threat. They got rid of their really big aerial threat in Zlatan and their "wingers" wouldn't get a proper cross in to save themselves. Its how Chelsea and Inter have basically stopped them in the last 3 years and its the way we should have played in the final instead of wasting two players up top in Hernandez and Rooney.
Basically the Mourinho way? you would happily have sat in and defended for your lives for the entire match?
Fkme nearly all those are awesome. Completely mindboggling awareness and touch - from the single deft flick to the staggering keepyuppy and lob from the kick off at the half way line
Ive watched them through a couple of times and I particularly love no 11 that 'driven' ball from the far touch/side line into the far corner
What kind of maths does he have going on in his head to achieve that
If you win the football match why fecking not? Winning a european cup is far more important to me then playing one bloody game in a ultra defensive formation. As long as its not dirty, who gives a crap how you play!
truely but their is no guarentee that this would have won the match and if you lose in this mannor it is even worse in my opinion.
Yes but that would have been our best shot at winning.
seems to be the only way anyone can beat Barcelona, even then it takes a lot of luck to pull it off.
Fkme nearly all those are awesome. Completely mindboggling awareness and touch - from the single deft flick to the staggering keepyuppy and lob from the kick off at the half way line
Ive watched them through a couple of times and I particularly love no 11 that 'driven' ball from the far touch/side line into the far corner
What kind of maths does he have going on in his head to achieve that
Love if someone could update some of that old footage. Theres also an incredibal DVD out there on Maradona. Its basically alot of pitch side coverage of his time at Napoli. No commentary just the atmosphere of the crowd. Its absolute fecking quality
For those who watched Maradona how do you feel he compares to Messi? The reason I ask is because I'm struggling (as someone who has only seen clips of Maradona) to fathom what he could do that Messi couldnt when people hail him the best of all time
I mean, Messi is incredible at dribbling and almost glides around with the ball seemingly glued to his feet at high speed in the most elegant of manner. Messi also sets up an insane amount of chances as well as being an incredible finisher. On top of that he has been named world player of the year on three (?) Occasions and proven himself to be a big game player.
Now obviously I believe the Maradona hype as he was incredible, but to those who believe Maradona is better, which parts of his game eclipse messi?
I mean, Messi is incredible at dribbling and almost glides around with the ball seemingly glued to his feet at high speed in the most elegant of manner. Messi also sets up an insane amount of chances as well as being an incredible finisher. On top of that he has been named world player of the year on three (?) Occasions and proven himself to be a big game player.
Now obviously I believe the Maradona hype as he was incredible, but to those who believe Maradona is better, which parts of his game eclipse messi?
It's a bit cliche (probably has been mentioned a million times here) and a tad unfair on Messi, but he has played for one of the most dominant sides in history, both domestically and at European level. Maradona never did.
Take Messi to a midtable side and they will maybe challenge for the CL, but never win anything. The rest of that Barca side is superb and everything just works, they are packed with world class players fed on a certain football philosophy. You take Messi out of that and he easily ends up looking like a fish out of water.
Maradona transformed a team, whichever team (so long as decent obviously) into a force to be reckoned with. I don't think Messi has that, hasn't proved that and probably never will. Maradona was less dependent on others playing well and in a way that suited him, he could just take the game by the scruff of the neck and run away with it. Haven't seen Messi do that.
In summary, Messi wouldn't have won that 86 WC for Argentina, nor would he have got Napoli to battle (and beat) the big guns in Serie A. On the other hand, Barca with Maradona instead of Messi would likely be every bit as successful.
Take Messi to a midtable side and they will maybe challenge for the CL, but never win anything. The rest of that Barca side is superb and everything just works, they are packed with world class players fed on a certain football philosophy. You take Messi out of that and he easily ends up looking like a fish out of water.
Maradona transformed a team, whichever team (so long as decent obviously) into a force to be reckoned with. I don't think Messi has that, hasn't proved that and probably never will. Maradona was less dependent on others playing well and in a way that suited him, he could just take the game by the scruff of the neck and run away with it. Haven't seen Messi do that.
In summary, Messi wouldn't have won that 86 WC for Argentina, nor would he have got Napoli to battle (and beat) the big guns in Serie A. On the other hand, Barca with Maradona instead of Messi would likely be every bit as successful.
Think of a player equally good as Messi on the ball, but having more force and a superior passer.
I don't think anyone can argue against the idea Maradona was the better passer, but it must be said that people only saw Maradona's full passing range when he was a) 26 years old, a year older than Messi and b) forced to adapt his game because of that ankle break which limited his dynamism/agility. Before that people only saw him in the '82 World Cup when I thought he was good - better than people say, much like Messi in 2010 - but his passing game was a lot safer and a lot more limited than the player he became. He played as a forward then, at one point he even played as a lone forward...yet people laugh at the suggestion that Maradona was anything other than a midfielder. That's because when people talk about Maradona they talk about him in his '86-'90 form, with Valdano/Caniggia/Pasculli/Borghi as the lone front man, when he was at his playmaking peak. Chances are Messi will never reach the same level of playmaking in the same way that Pele never did but he's improved his passing so much in the past 18 months or so that realistically all you can do is wait and see.
He'll never have Maradona's charisma/leadership though. Never.
He'll never have Maradona's charisma/leadership though. Never.
He also had the charisma to make players around him play....better. Anyway, they played in different positions, Maradona ochestrated things from the midfield whereas Messi's an attacker. He was something else, to be fair.
Some good points but I think its a bit unfair to let the fact that Messi plays for a great team to be held against him. Place Messi in a weaker team and it surely could not help but to make them raise their games in my opinion. Messi still has time to make the international impact. Obviously Maradona was more charismatic but Messi as a footballer is outstanding. Its mind boggling to conceive a similar style of player being even better than he...
Messi wins in effciency
and Maradonna wins in pure magick
and Maradonna wins in pure magick
Maradona could juggle a small ball with the soles of his feet whilst jogging on a treadmill. He was seriously good at juggling. Haven't seen Messi show those skills.
Yep Maradona was a true play maker and the charisma is what I meant by 'force'.
Maradona was more talented for me as unbelievable it may sound to some.
I agree Messi has improved his passing and dead ball abilities but I think its going to be very hard for Messi to reach Maradona's level in passing or even the free kicks.
And I doubt considering where Barcelona choose to play Messi, he would have the chance to develop his passing into a new dynamic and run games like Maradona did from midfield.
This discussion very much reminds me of the movie Soldier. Kurt Russell and his crew were the best of the best but that wasn't good enough for 'The Man' so they genetically engineered new soldiers that were much stronger, had better stamina and agility. But Kurt had charisma and had leadership which they didn't and he used that as a driving force to beat his former employer.
Maradona might very well be the better player despite many things pointing in the other direction.
Maradona might very well be the better player despite many things pointing in the other direction.
Maradona's probably the best free kick taker I've seen but Messi's really come on leaps and bounds in that sense and I wouldn't put it past him to reach that level at some point. Argentina have been desperately trying to turn him into their iconic #10 so I think some day he might just become an expert at that side of the game...who knows though.
I have seen a few youtube clips of Maradona (not entire matches) enough for me to see him as a truly outstanding player.I'm not interested in saying he's better than Messi or the opposite.
Messi is from my era, I have watched him a lot more, it'd be unfair from me to compare them.I just enjoy their football
Messi is from my era, I have watched him a lot more, it'd be unfair from me to compare them.I just enjoy their football
I agree he has drastically improved his free kick abilities and like you say who knows, it'd be best to judge once Messi's career ends or his star fades.
Still at similar ages I feel Diego was more talented.
The best free kicker I have seen (not saying that he was better than Maradona) was Juninho Pernambucano.Was Maradona better than him (for those who have watched enough of the two ) ?
Really? That is some accolade when you consider the likes of Mihailovic (sp?), Juninho P., Zidane and a few others who were great free kick takers
I don't think Zidane should be in the discussion for the greatest free kick takers.
Not seen a whole lot of Juninho though of course have seen some of his genius from the dead ball situation.
Maradona was fantastic from free kicks, Brwned will be able to answer this much better.
Juninho was a bit special (unlike Zidane) so he might've been even better and chances are there were a few over the past 50 years that simply didn't get the same level of exposure so it's hard to judge but for me, from the players that everyone knows, no-one comes close to Maradona and Platini. Every time they took a free kick it tested the keeper, from what I saw. Then there's the likes of Didi who invented the curling free kicks with those rock-hard balls...it's hard to compare. I was blown away by Maradona's free kicks though. Baring in mind I've seen 50-odd games from him over a 12-year period for club and country and he pretty much never failed to genuinely test the keeper, I reckon it gives a fair reflection of his free kick class.
From the stats Messi is superior to Maradona. Of course that they only tell half of the story but still it is something that should be out in context. Messi being in one of the best side ever cannot be put as counter argument for him, cause he is the main reason that Barca is one of the best ever. Messi winning 3 Ballon D'or is something that only 3 players ever have achieved and considering that he is 25 he can win many others (Maradona was not eligible).
The list of Messi's successes is almost unprecedented for a player of his age, 3 Uefa Champions League and 5 La Liga to name a few. In 5 of these tournaments he was the main man.
Maradona in the other side had charisma and leadership which Messi has not (will never have). Maradona won the World Cup with Argentina and made possibly the best appearance from a player in a World Cup (the only other one who is near it is Garrincha in 1962). Maradona probably was a player you would like more to watch but Messi is a goal/assist machine and for me is not only better to Maradona but better than anyone else.
The list of Messi's successes is almost unprecedented for a player of his age, 3 Uefa Champions League and 5 La Liga to name a few. In 5 of these tournaments he was the main man.
Maradona in the other side had charisma and leadership which Messi has not (will never have). Maradona won the World Cup with Argentina and made possibly the best appearance from a player in a World Cup (the only other one who is near it is Garrincha in 1962). Maradona probably was a player you would like more to watch but Messi is a goal/assist machine and for me is not only better to Maradona but better than anyone else.
I think just like people don't see the context when they criticize Messi for playing in one of the best club sides ever, you are also not seeing the context between Messi and Maradona...the teams they played in, the eras they played in and also the different positions they played in.
I am not saying that Messi having better stats is the better player. And of course that Maradona had inferior players in comparison to Messi, and Serie A of 1980-ies was more defensive than this La Liga. Anyway in overall I think that Messi is better.
I think that the debate will end if Messi will win the World Cup. He has another 2 opportunities of doing it and I think that he will win it. Until then we will debate.
Why should that even be taken into account? Pelé's stats were much better than Maradona but for years everyone has said the Argentine was the better player...by the same logic Lampard >>> Iniesta.
I'm not arguing with you even if you had said that Messi was better than Maradona.
I'm saying context is very important to use when referring tho these two's stats.
Not only better defensively but also far rougher, I am not saying that Messi would not have weaved his magic..that he can do in any era.But there definitely would be a lot more uncalled fouls and lesser fluidity to his runs because of the fouls.
And he plays in an entirely different position in arguably one of the greatest sides of all time.
Right, I've got a question that I've pondered for quite some time. How can people compare players from the 80s to present-day footballers? And I'm not talking about how the game's changed, but simply the coverage given to players back then, particularly foreign teams.
Today you can watch every single game Messi plays in. I imagine in the 80s you'd see Maradona in the World Cup, a European final, or when he played against an English team. You didn't have sky sports or ESPN then, so you could only see him on terrestrial TV. The only way people can give such in-depth analysis is by digging out archived games and watching them all.
Today you can watch every single game Messi plays in. I imagine in the 80s you'd see Maradona in the World Cup, a European final, or when he played against an English team. You didn't have sky sports or ESPN then, so you could only see him on terrestrial TV. The only way people can give such in-depth analysis is by digging out archived games and watching them all.
It's a floored concept as people nowadays can see all Messi's bad games (few and far between) whereas perhaps TV back then was able to enhance Maradona by only showing games where he performed perhaps. It's a difficult one in order to compare them both for sure
It's an important thing. Of course that there are many other factors, but you cannot simply invalidate them.
I said that from stats Messi is better and I continued in other factors. That doesn't mean that Messi is better player than Maradona because of the stats. Probably I should have said that Messi has better stats to be more clear. In general I think that Messi is slightly better, though I haven't seen not even near enough games of Maradona to make a definite statement of which of them is better.
About Lampard vs Iniesta, is out of topic but I don't think that one of them was much better than the other, with Iniesta being the better player but not with that much difference.
Also its not comparable to Lampard/Iniesta as Messi stats are put of this world rather than just very very good like Lampard.