Shinji Kagawa

Status
Not open for further replies.
Park was a lot more of an orthodox winger at PSV, I believe Fergie was appreciating him more for his attacking qualities than, what he discovered later, defensive commitment. Ronaldo was a wide player till he got so good he was granted a free-role.

I'm not neglecting nuances, Plato, I wanted to stress that while talking about 4-4-2 I mean playing wide and with focus on the flanks but didn't want to edit the post again.

Look at it, even when then a typical forward Rooney was being sent to the wing (mainly Ronaldo's last season) his initial position was very much wide, not a Silva's, Kagawa's of this world.

Shinji is just too good to be a squad player and I\m sure Fergie will find a way to squeeze him in.
 
article-0-16965AAA000005DC-808_306x423.jpg


Shinji Fonzarelli

2ea979e16ac117c65e05c369ba34cc1d.jpg
 
He is one of best when it comes to passing around the opposition box and threading that killer pass. Technically a level above most players in the league and has the knack of finding himself in goal scoring positions time and time again. Add to that his ability and willingness to carry the ball forward through the center is something what we really cry out for specially when Anderson is not around.

There is no way that we can't fit him into the team or a central position.
 
He returned to training on Monday, should atleast be on the bench vs Swansea.
 
Tooni said:
He is one of best when it comes to passing around the opposition box and threading that killer pass. Technically a level above most players in the league and has the knack of finding himself in goal scoring positions time and time again. Add to that his ability and willingness to carry the ball forward through the center is something what we really cry out for specially when Anderson is not around.

There is no way that we can't fit him into the team or a central position.
Click to expand...

Is he really that Good? For me he still has a lot to prove, not a criticism but IMHO he has looked a bit light weight and hence the injuries of late.
 
Nate Dogg said:
Is he really that Good? For me he still has a lot to prove, not a criticism but IMHO he has looked a bit light weight and hence the injuries of late.
Click to expand...

Until he plays for us again, the situation will always be that he looked pretty good for us without ever really getting a chance to settle in, but that anyone who saw him in either season at Dortmund knows he's a truly top-bracket player.

I still think the 'christmas tree' (4321) would suit him best, central alongside Rooney but really in a free role, with the option to drift wide, or deep, or push forwards to be closer to RVP.

He and Rooney are two of the best and most elusive 'in the hole' players in the world, and there will simply be no way for a team to successfully mark both of them. If one is getting a lot of attention, the other will get lots of space, and both can punish you.
 
I want him to come in and take Ashley Young's Position.
During the game he can swap roles with Rooney. It's not like young gives us much width anyway.
 
ryan_forlan said:
I want him to come in and take Ashley Young's Position.
During the game he can swap roles with Rooney. It's not like young gives us much width anyway.
Click to expand...

Why?

I don't like Young, but it's hard to say he's been playing worse than Valencia recently. Young over to the right wing and Kagawa on the left seems the best way to slot him in.
 
ryan_forlan said:
I want him to come in and take Ashley Young's Position.
During the game he can swap roles with Rooney. It's not like young gives us much width anyway.
Click to expand...

I think in the long run this is what will happen but fair play to Young he's in decent form at the moment.
 
Right now, Young's not the winger to drop.

Kagawa will find his form and best position, no doubt. He's just got so much potential and I can see him combining very well with Rooney and RvP
 
NinjaFletch said:
Why?

I don't like Young, but it's hard to say he's been playing worse than Valencia recently. Young over to the right wing and Kagawa on the left seems the best way to slot him in.
Click to expand...

Well cause both young and valencia have seemed like limited players this season. But valencia has still been able to get past him man and also has provided us with some width. young has done neither. he becomes a central attacker as soon as he reaches the final third. it is annoying.
 
Castia said:
I think in the long run this is what will happen but fair play to Young he's in decent form at the moment.
Click to expand...

decent form? Just one game, the city one. where the game did not need him to be a constant threat down the left.
Even against the smaller teams or the games we are dominating territorially , he barely ever tries to get past him man and do something. he is always looking to pass the ball inside, or pass the ball backwards and come in side. that is not what a winger should be doing. not at all
 
Nate Dogg said:
No one said he is shit.

For me it is a case of getting fit (and strong) and finding a position that will allow him to express himself.
Click to expand...

Fit yes, position yes. But he's plenty strong enough already. This isn't the PL of the 80s - the league is no more physical than the Bundesliga, and he did ok there didn't he? Often made the big Bayern boys look very silly.
 
Might be worthwhile trying a frontline of Nani, RVP, Rooney & Kagawa-plenty of pace, movement and skill. Enough to beat Madrid?
 
ryan_forlan said:
decent form? Just one game, the city one. where the game did not need him to be a constant threat down the left.
Even against the smaller teams or the games we are dominating territorially , he barely ever tries to get past him man and do something. he is always looking to pass the ball inside, or pass the ball backwards and come in side. that is not what a winger should be doing. not at all
Click to expand...

Didn't need him to be a constant threat?

What?

He also played well against Sunderland, so that's two games in a row which he's played well in.

I like Valencia, and I think we'll all agree he's a better player than Young in full flow, but it just hasn't worked for him this season.
 
Escobar said:
Right now, Young's not the winger to drop.

Kagawa will find his form and best position, no doubt. He's just got so much potential and I can see him combining very well with Rooney and RvP
Click to expand...

A kagawa like player is very important to the team. Especially in Europe. We need players who are generally good on the ball and are comfortable holding on to it and carrying it. I feel this comes in handy when our team is not seeing much of the ball during a game. having such players comes in handy to keep us going and not just get cornered in our own half. We need players who can pop up in different positions with the ball and use it. The likes of Ashley Young and Valencia have seemed completely incapable of that.
So it is important that we make an effort to make Kagawa a part of our regular 14-15.
I know some people will argue that we have no evidence that Kagawa can do the above stated things. but well i don't think we can judge either way from his performances at united. our sample size is too small. i am going by the kind and level of player he has been.
Having said all this, Playing Kagawa behind Rvp and Rooney, would mean changing too much in our current setup. Plus he does not seem like a player who can support the midfield two like Rooney does.
 
European Dream Team:

----------------------------RVP--------------------------
-------Kagawa---------------------------------Nani------
-----------------------Rooney---------------------------
--------------Cleverly-----------Carrick------------------
--Baines :-p------Vida---------Smalling-----------Rafael--
------------------------DDG-----------------------------
 
ryan_forlan said:
European Dream Team:

----------------------------RVP--------------------------
-------Kagawa---------------------------------Nani------
-----------------------Rooney---------------------------
--------------Cleverly-----------Carrick------------------
--Baines :-p------Vida---------Smalling-----------Rafael--
------------------------DDG-----------------------------
Click to expand...

Would love to see this formation with this personnel. Not sure about the likelihood of that LB but I think this would provide a fluid attacking threat and enough energy in midfield to counter the opposition threat.

I just hope we don't try to force Kagawa to play as a winger in a 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 formation.
 
ryan_forlan said:
European Dream Team:

----------------------------RVP--------------------------
-------Kagawa---------------------------------Nani------
-----------------------Rooney---------------------------
--------------Cleverly-----------Carrick------------------
--Baines :-p------Vida---------Smalling-----------Rafael--
------------------------DDG-----------------------------
Click to expand...

That would be nice too, but only if Nani remembers how to play football.
 
Playing Kagawa out wide is almost as bad as playing Scholes there. It's not because they can't do a job there but it's because they and team are so much better with them in the middle.

As good as Rooney is I don't think his touch, control and passing is consistent enough for him to be the go-to man in advanced positions or tight situations. The sort of confidence that you get when you play the ball and make a run with complete confidence that it's going to find you no matter the angle. Rooney is also one of a kind and is so much more when he is given a free role and asked to do whatever he feels like. I'd put him out wide and give him the freedom and let him switch positions with Van Persie who can also put in those mean crosses from time to time.

In my opinion our strongest attack would be something like:

-----------RVP----------

Rooney--Kagawa----Nani

--Cleverley------Carrick--
 
Tooni said:
Playing Kagawa out wide is almost as bad as playing Scholes there. It's not because they can't do a job there but it's because they and team are so much better with them in the middle.
Click to expand...

Not nearly as bad. Kagawa's as much of a left winger (operating in the left channel and tucking in) as he's a proper CM. He's much more explosive than Scholes as well.
 
ryan_forlan said:
A kagawa like player is very important to the team. Especially in Europe. We need players who are generally good on the ball and are comfortable holding on to it and carrying it. I feel this comes in handy when our team is not seeing much of the ball during a game. having such players comes in handy to keep us going and not just get cornered in our own half. We need players who can pop up in different positions with the ball and use it. The likes of Ashley Young and Valencia have seemed completely incapable of that.
So it is important that we make an effort to make Kagawa a part of our regular 14-15.
I know some people will argue that we have no evidence that Kagawa can do the above stated things. but well i don't think we can judge either way from his performances at united. our sample size is too small. i am going by the kind and level of player he has been.
Having said all this, Playing Kagawa behind Rvp and Rooney, would mean changing too much in our current setup. Plus he does not seem like a player who can support the midfield two like Rooney does.
Click to expand...

What I meant is that on current form, it should be Valencia who's dropped, not Young
 
Geez Ryan, no one here said anything about Young being a better winger than Valencia, all they said was the obvious: right now, current form, Young deserves to be picked over Valencia.
Don't get your panties twisted.
 
Tomuś said:
Park was a lot more of an orthodox winger at PSV, I believe Fergie was appreciating him more for his attacking qualities than, what he discovered later, defensive commitment. Ronaldo was a wide player till he got so good he was granted a free-role.

I'm not neglecting nuances, Plato, I wanted to stress that while talking about 4-4-2 I mean playing wide and with focus on the flanks but didn't want to edit the post again.

Look at it, even when then a typical forward Rooney was being sent to the wing (mainly Ronaldo's last season) his initial position was very much wide, not a Silva's, Kagawa's of this world.

Shinji is just too good to be a squad player and I\m sure Fergie will find a way to squeeze him in.
Click to expand...

Park played in the hole for PSV like he did for South Korea, he was never a winger and no more suited to an orthodox role than Kagawa IMO.
 
Nate Dogg said:
Is he really that Good? For me he still has a lot to prove, not a criticism but IMHO he has looked a bit light weight and hence the injuries of late.
Click to expand...

In a United shirt he has done very little. With no previous, one wouldn't be that excited. As has been said he looks very light. He's a super player and will be a great signing, based on what I've seen from him in a Dortmund shirt. Even without being injured he loked like he was going to take a bit of time to settle. Some take longer than others.
 
Tomuś said:
Park was a lot more of an orthodox winger at PSV, I believe Fergie was appreciating him more for his attacking qualities than, what he discovered later, defensive commitment. Ronaldo was a wide player till he got so good he was granted a free-role.

I'm not neglecting nuances, Plato, I wanted to stress that while talking about 4-4-2 I mean playing wide and with focus on the flanks but didn't want to edit the post again.

Look at it, even when then a typical forward Rooney was being sent to the wing (mainly Ronaldo's last season) his initial position was very much wide, not a Silva's, Kagawa's of this world.

Shinji is just too good to be a squad player and I\m sure Fergie will find a way to squeeze him in.
Click to expand...

When will this myth stop? Apart from a few games, Rooney was a striker and Ronaldo was a winger. Not vice versa.

This is some sort of apologist theory used to explain why Rooney didn't score as many goals as Ronaldo or something.
 
moses said:
In a United shirt he has done very little. With no previous, one wouldn't be that excited. As has been said he looks very light. He's a super player and will be a great signing, based on what I've seen from him in a Dortmund shirt. Even without being injured he loked like he was going to take a bit of time to settle. Some take longer than others.
Click to expand...

Basically, yeah. I was surprised at the start of the season when a lot of people more or less wanted us to completely change how we play because it was somehow beneath Kagawa. If he's waiting for us to adapt to him he might be waiting quite a while. In another year or so we should see a player who's more comfortable in the league and who is one of our main men.
 
Brophs said:
Basically, yeah. I was surprised at the start of the season when a lot of people more or less wanted us to completely change how we play because it was somehow beneath Kagawa. If he's waiting for us to adapt to him he might be waiting quite a while. In another year or so we should see a player who's more comfortable in the league and who is one of our main men.
Click to expand...

I think he might settle in a bit easier now that we are starting to gel as a team. When he first started he seemed to be looking for the movement that never came much like us not used to Van Persie movement. Now with our pass and move game seemingly clicking (if the first half of Sunderland is any indication) Im thinking he might hit the ground running
 
Rozay said:
When will this myth stop? Apart from a few games, Rooney was a striker and Ronaldo was a winger. Not vice versa.

This is some sort of apologist theory used to explain why Rooney didn't score as many goals as Ronaldo or something.
Click to expand...

not really a myth though. Rooney was often deployed wide left when Ronaldo started to get more of a free role.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.