Gareth Bale is...The most expensive player ever?!

tbf, I don't care that he's getting scapegoated and as is Luis Suarez....they'll learn.

He was barely clipped, I've seen him get touched harder and stay up, the whole he's at such speed etc issue is kinda mute, but yeah, when you pick and choose when to go down from soft touches, it's a dive. Lionel Messi takes money hard hits every single game about 10 times and stays up 9 times. I just hope the refs don't back down from this after managers and players constantly moaning and picking other random incidents to use as their excuse. I like this clamping down.

And no I wouldn't care if it was happening to our player(most likely Young or Nani) either.
 
redmeister said:
The GIF isn't poor, but it was obvious from the sky shots that he got fouled. If this was one of our players there would be outrage that he's now had 3 unjustified booking in a row. Not only that we'd be furious that no penalty was given. Bale was impeded. The TV shots showed at the GIF clearly shows it.
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So?

He admitted himself that he felt he was entitled to go down because he was touched, therefore threw himself to the ground.

That's a dive for me.
 
NinjaFletch said:
So?

He admitted himself that he felt he was entitled to go down because he was touched, therefore threw himself to the ground.

That's a dive for me.
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Well that's something everyone on our team is guilty of, and the league, and the entire football world.
 
Having watched the entire game, it was one of those where they are battering the other team and the ref could give a pen for the player simply not being able to live with him and it being of a cynical nature. You see it all the time, it's soft but it goes your way because you are bossing the game and the opponent is clumsy.

It's a foul outside the box, it can be deemed a foul inside. Contact does not always constitute a foul but it means it isn't a dive. There was a hand across his midrift and a knock on the knee. It could have cost Spurs points at 2-1 and he misses the next game.

One thing that annoys me is, just because the player falls over doesn't mean he is asking for a freekick. Defoe had a worse moment but got up and the ref didn't feel the need to act.
 
ForeverUnited19 said:
It's a foul outside the box, it can be deemed a foul inside. Contact does not always constitute a foul but it means it isn't a dive..
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Since when? Of course it can still be a dive if there is contact, the point is that you are exaggerating it to manipulate the match officials.
 
Diving while getting touched by the opponents is done only by those who have mastered the art.It's safe to say that Bale has been practising it a lot to get the timing perfect, he gets to cheat and he gets to make it realistic because the defender "touched" him
 
Looks like a clear dive. He brushed his knee slightly, so what?
 
Of course it's a dive, but it's what's now an acceptable dive. No point having a go at Bale for doing what everybody else has been up to for years. Blame the organisers of the game if anything for allowing this degree of cheating to become the norm.
 
I always get amused by the level of outrage when incidents like this occur. Players get touched and go down week-in-week out, been happening for years. Bale is of course a divisive figure and has form as a simulator of the art, so he is discussed regularly. Some of the vitriol directed at him on here is just laughable......there was clear contact and it is a penalty every day of the week.

Cristiano Ronaldo exhibited this behaviour for nigh on 6 years and it didn't stop him becoming a United legend. Even Rooney has dived from time to time. Footballers can be twats it's pretty daft how precious some people get.
 
Comsmit said:
I always get amused by the level of outrage when incidents like this occur. Players get touched and go down week-in-week out, been happening for years. Bale is of course a divisive figure and has form as a simulator of the art, so he is discussed regularly. Some of the vitriol directed at him on here is just laughable......there was clear contact and it is a penalty every day of the week.

Cristiano Ronaldo exhibited this behaviour for nigh on 6 years and it didn't stop him becoming a United legend. Even Rooney has dived from time to time. Footballers can be twats it's pretty daft how precious some people get.
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Indeed, the holier than thou bullshit in this thread is incredible.
 
I think many on here are fairly consistent when it comes to criticising diving, Young certainly didn't get an out during his sad run last season.
 
It was a blatant penalty though...I honestly cannot understand how anyone can dispute it. Contact like that at extreme pace will inevitably result in the player going to ground.
 
If we acknowledge that football should continue to be a contact sport, that is no penalty.

Cocky little sod in the MOTD interview, only asking for more trouble as far as refs and linos are concerned.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
I think many on here are fairly consistent when it comes to criticising diving, Young certainly didn't get an out during his sad run last season.
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Agreed, and I think it's fair that players are criticised when they make a habit of this.

There was not even close to being enough contact to bring someone of Bale's size and athleticism down today. It's a concerning situation whereby dives like that one today are being defended in any capacity.

Is that even a foul in basketball? Genuine question, I've no idea. There was just so little contact that I'm wondering if things like that go unnoticed in non-contact sports.
 
Zen86 said:
Indeed, the holier than thou bullshit in this thread is incredible.
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:wenger:

Ronaldo regularly got criticised for diving while he was here, Ashley Young gets slaughtered for diving, Rooney is routinely slammed for diving...yet somehow because people are criticising an opposition player rather than our own they're being holier than thou? I think you're a little confused.

africanspur said:
As a comparison, Defoe performed an outrageous dive today. Didn't get booked, didn't get booed by the Sunderland fans and will be completely forgotten about within an hour.
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While I agree Bale is unfairly targeted and Defoe's dive was worse than anything I've seen from Bale, you're talking absolute nonsense here. Or you need your ears tested. Niall Quinn pointed out that it was poor form by Defoe and seconds later when Defoe next got the ball there was a huge chorus of boos from the entire stadium.
 
KingEric7 said:
Agreed, and I think it's fair that players are criticised when they make a habit of this.

There was not even close to being enough contact to bring someone of Bale's size and athleticism down today. It's a concerning situation whereby dives like that one today are being defended in any capacity.

Is that even a foul in basketball? Genuine question, I've no idea. There was just so little contact that I'm wondering if things like that go unnoticed in non-contact sports.
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Did you complain when Rafael won us the RVP free kick against City?

This has been going on for 15 years, some of the comments on here make it sound like a new trend.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
If we acknowledge that football should continue to be a contact sport, that is no penalty.

Cocky little sod in the MOTD interview, only asking for more trouble as far as refs and linos are concerned.
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Contact like that in the box = penalty.

He wasn't being cocky mate, what is he meant to say?

"Erm yeah I got clipped at full pelt which sent me off balance but because I went down rather than stumble a few more yards damn right I should be booked for simulation, well done ref"

He could have been a right twat but he is defending himself rather than pandering to people who wish to discredit him. What would you say?
 
Brwned said:
:wenger:

Ronaldo regularly got criticised for diving while he was here, Ashley Young gets slaughtered for diving, Rooney is routinely slammed for diving...yet somehow because people are criticising an opposition player rather than our own they're being holier than thou? I think you're a little confused.
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Are they when there has been contact though? Not very often.
 
Comsmit said:
Contact like that in the box = penalty.

He wasn't being cocky mate, what is he meant to say?

"Erm yeah I got clipped at full pelt which sent me off balance but because I went down rather than stumble a few more yards damn right I should be booked for simulation, well done ref"

He could have been a right twat but he is defending himself rather than pandering to people who wish to discredit him. What would you say?
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I don't think either of us are going to persuade the other about the penalty, we've each drawn our own conclusions and with the benefit replays.

Do you think that telling the referees how to do their job on national television will east the plight of a player with the sort of preconceptions he likely brings out in people? Bale apparently sees contact [no matter how slight] as a sure route to a foul, that simply is not football.
 
Zen86 said:
Are they when there has been contact though? Not very often.
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Why are you moving the goalposts? Who gives a feck whether there was minimal contact or not? A dive's a dive. When a player chooses to go down that's a dive. When a player is brought down that's a foul. When one of our player dives he gets criticised for it no matter who he is. Even Scholesy. You were talking nonsense and you know it or you just don't know what you were saying when you decided to class entirely appropriate criticism as "holier than thou". No, there was no hypocrisy here. Would people have defended Bale going down as he did if he was playing in a United shirt? Absolutely, but it wouldn't have been from the same people. Those who are criticising Bale now are the same ones who criticise Young, Rooney or whoever else because they take a stance against people diving, not because they take a stance against Gareth fecking Bale.
 
Diver or not, it's pretty gutting that we missed out on him when he was a youngster. He's a top player now.

If he'd joined United he'd probably be the best attacking left back in the world, though- not a winger.
 
Brwned said:
Why are you moving the goalposts? Who gives a feck whether there was minimal contact or not? A dive's a dive. When a player chooses to go down that's a dive. When a player is brought down that's a foul. When one of our player dives he gets criticised for it no matter who he is. Even Scholesy. You were talking nonsense and you know it or you just don't know what you were saying when you decided to class entirely appropriate criticism as "holier than thou". No, there was no hypocrisy here. Would people have defended Bale going down as he did if he was playing in a United shirt? Absolutely, but it wouldn't have been from the same people.
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That hasn't been the case for years, ideally we'd all want it to be but it's simply not.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
I don't think either of us are going to persuade the other about the penalty, we've each drawn our own conclusions and with the benefit replays.

Do you think that telling the referees how to do their job on national television will east the plight of a player with the sort of preconceptions he likely brings out in people? Bale apparently sees contact [no matter how slight] as a sure route to a foul, that simply is not football.
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Fair enough like you say it's a matter of opinion regarding the penalty. I don't think the interview will raise any eyebrows within the refereeing community. As it stands Bale has the stigma attached to him but he will rightly defend himself in the face of criticism. He has a right to suggest the referee is wrong and should do better....just as the official had a right to book Bale for perceived simulation.

As for the bolded bit I'm afraid it is football mate....no matter how frustrating it may get. I understand your point though.
 
Brwned said:
Why are you moving the goalposts? Who gives a feck whether there was minimal contact or not? A dive's a dive. When a player chooses to go down that's a dive. When a player is brought down that's a foul. When one of our player dives he gets criticised for it no matter who he is. Even Scholesy. You were talking nonsense and you know it or you just don't know what you were saying when you decided to class entirely appropriate criticism as "holier than thou". No, there was no hypocrisy here. Would people have defended Bale going down as he did if he was playing in a United shirt? Absolutely, but it wouldn't have been from the same people. Those who are criticising Bale now are the same ones who criticise Young, Rooney or whoever else because they take a stance against people diving, not because they take a stance against Gareth fecking Bale.
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A dive really isn't a dive anymore though is it, if there's contact it's deemed a foul nowadays, so stop getting on your period about it.
 
MrMojo said:
Did you complain when Rafael won us the RVP free kick against City?

This has been going on for 15 years, some of the comments on here make it sound like a new trend.
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Was nothing like Bale's, in my opinion. Rafael looked like he was tripped to me - a classic ankle tap. This is not to say I take any pleasure out of United players diving though; there was a period earlier in the season that wasn't pleasant to watch whereby Welbeck had 3 blatant dives for England/United.

This is irrelevant though. I'm not pretending that Bale is any worse than any other well known diver - I'm just bemoaning the general state of the game that it has now gotten to the stage whereby instances like today's are being defended. It's no longer the issue whether there is simulation. All that matters now is whether there is contact. It's gotten to this stage because a harsh enough stance hasn't been taken on it, and because attitudes towards diving from fans, pundits, coaches and the media have now become more lenient.

I am too young to remember, but surely people would not have defended the Bale dive today 15-20 years ago like the MOTD panel did today? The whole 'contact' thing has gotten completely out of hand during the last 2 years or so. Players have been diving and cheating for a while, yeah, but there has been a pretty clear shift towards the footballing population not actually caring at all whether there is even enough 'contact'.

Too late to do anything about it now, I suppose. Should've hammered players with retrospective bans at the start, accepting that there would be some cases that would perhaps be borderline whilst really punishing ones that are clear.
 
Jaybezia said:
Completely hypothetical obviously, but if we did a straight swap, Nani for Bale - What would people's thoughts be? Just trying to find the level people rate bale here, I for one, would much prefer Nani...
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Interested in hearing this as well.. What does everyone think?

Personally I would snap their hand off.
 
KingEric7 said:
Was nothing like Bale's, in my opinion. Rafael looked like he was tripped to me - a classic ankle tap. This is not to say I take any pleasure out of United players diving though; there was a period earlier in the season that wasn't pleasant to watch whereby Welbeck had 3 blatant dives for England/United.

This is irrelevant though. I'm not pretending that Bale is any worse than any other well known diver - I'm just bemoaning the general state of the game that it has now gotten to the stage whereby instances like today's are being defended. It's no longer the issue whether there is simulation. All that matters now is whether there is contact. It's gotten to this stage because a harsh enough stance hasn't been taken on it, and because attitudes towards diving from fans, pundits, coaches and the media have now become more lenient.

I am too young to remember, but surely people would not have defended the Bale dive today 15-20 years ago like the MOTD panel did today? The whole 'contact' thing has gotten completely out of hand during the last 2 years or so. Players have been diving and cheating for a while, yeah, but there has been a pretty clear shift towards the footballing population not actually caring at all whether there is even enough 'contact'.
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If you can see contact between Tevez and Rafael you have better eyes than me.

It has been going on for years though, I remember Lineker being an expert at pushing the ball round the keeper, knowing he was going to go down. That was in 1990.

Owen did it in '98.

Beckham was doing it from about 2000 onwards.

Sometimes it's necessary to get the decision. For instance, a player will never get a decision for getting his shirt pulled unless he goes down.
 
Straight swap with Nani in the final year of his contract and not looking like he wants to extend? it's not even debatable.

They would be looking for Nani plus £20million+ knowing what Spurs are like. I'd rather buy an understudy/ future replacement for Carrick for that kind of money
 
Drainy said:
Straight swap with Nani in the final year of his contract and not looking like he wants to extend? it's not even debatable.

They would be looking for Nani plus £20million+ knowing what Spurs are like. I'd rather buy an understudy/ future replacement for Carrick for that kind of money
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Ignore the contract stuff, don't think that was the point of his question which he said was about how highly people rate Bale.

Would that change your answer?
 
MrMojo said:
If you can see contact between Tevez and Rafael you have better eyes than me.

It has been going on for years though, I remember Lineker being an expert at pushing the ball round the keeper, knowing he was going to go down. That was in 1990.

Owen did it in '98.

Beckham was doing it from about 2000 onwards.

Sometimes it's necessary to get the decision. For instance, a player will never get a decision for getting his shirt pulled unless he goes down.
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I will watch it again at some point. I did watch it a few times first time round but I also accept I could be wrong. :angel:

Again though, I don't feel like this is really relevant. It's the reaction and the attitude towards it that is the issue at hand - not the fact that diving exists. Diving has obviously been a problem for some time, but it's only recently that the 'contact=foul' thing has become so well established.

It's going to get to the stage whereby a player could somersault across the pitch Lua Lua style after being touched, with the MOTD panel and fans defending him for doing so because of the 'contact'. Surely there must come a point when we stop and realise that we're actually no longer taking into account whether players' reactions are proportionate to the situation. I used to have perhaps a little sympathy for players being fouled and going down after the referee hasn't spotted the decision, but that sort of thing covers nothing like the extent of the full issue.
 
NinjaFletch said:
So?

He admitted himself that he felt he was entitled to go down because he was touched, therefore threw himself to the ground.

That's a dive for me.
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He didn't say he threw himself to the ground though. You're making an assumption.

Had had his arm across Bale, eyes off the ball, never a dive.
 
KingEric7 said:
I will watch it again at some point. I did watch it a few times first time round but I also accept I could be wrong. :angel:

Again though, I don't feel like this is really relevant. It's the reaction and the attitude towards it that is the issue at hand - not the fact that diving exists. Diving has obviously been a problem for some time, but it's only recently that the 'contact=foul' thing has become so well established.

It's going to get to the stage whereby a player could somersault across the pitch Lua Lua style after being touched, with the MOTD panel and fans defending him for doing so because of the 'contact'. Surely there must come a point when we stop and realise that we're actually no longer taking into account whether players' reactions are proportionate to the situation. I used to have perhaps a little sympathy for players being fouled and going down after the referee hasn't spotted the decision, but that sort of thing covers nothing like the extent of the full issue.
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I agree, but is it the players who are at fault. It's the officials who set the rules and therefore the climate of what's acceptable. That's why all the players do it.
 
All our directness from the left hand side his coming from Evra's overlapping runs. With Bale's speed, physique and directness he probably offers a more consistent threat than Nani. Then again Nani is probably our best winger for playing in a Kagawa centric side with his touch play, while Bale would be amazing with Rooney and RvP because he creates space and crosses the ball often.

It's a very close decision, the fact Nani can play right wing and can swap is great- but deminished because of Valencia's inability to swap with him- I guess Young can do that role. I still think we'd see Bale as a mid-long term left back project if we signed him, with Kagawa left wing. I'd probably stick with Nani, just about.
 
MrMojo said:
I agree, but is it the players who are at fault. It's the officials who set the rules and therefore the climate of what's acceptable. That's why all the players do it.
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Mix of various things, I think. The media and pundits for one in that they have only come down selectively on divers, and have not really been consistent in any vilifying of players across teams. Then there's the bias of managers and fans that defend their own players for diving, which has made the problem gradually worse I'm guessing due to the fact that diving has then in turn been seen as acceptable at some level. Lastly, the footballing authorities for not taking a proper stand when it started happening. Already said about the idea of retrospective banning, but I still don't see why an intentional handball is a red whilst a dive is a yellow for example. That doesn't make any sense to me.

This recent thing in the media and from pundits with the whole acceptance of diving and the focus on contact is the nail in the coffin though. Depressingly, these people have a huge influence on the way people think about the game, and this is now reflected in the number of people you talk to or converse with about football who are now zooming in on contact as opposed to intention and justification.
 
Drainy said:
All our directness from the left hand side his coming from Evra's overlapping runs. With Bale's speed, physique and directness he probably offers a more consistent threat than Nani. Then again Nani is probably our best winger for playing in a Kagawa centric side with his touch play, while Bale would be amazing with Rooney and RvP because he creates space and crosses the ball often.

It's a very close decision, the fact Nani can play right wing and can swap is great- but deminished because of Valencia's inability to swap with him- I guess Young can do that role. I still think we'd see Bale as a mid-long term left back project if we signed him, with Kagawa left wing. I'd probably stick with Nani, just about.
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Good stuff in that first paragraph, I agree with your analysis just disagree on what you have drawn from it.

Bale would definitely create more space for Rooney if he played in AM/in the hole of Van Persie like he has done so far this year. I really think that's important to get the most out of him because that space can really get congested if a team sits deep and Rooney doesn't have the same level of one touch play/close control that Kagawa, Silva or Mata for example do. In that postion he needs space to thrive so he can get his head up and play a pass or through ball, which I think he is better than any of the others at doing.

Nani does give us the variety of left and right but Young can do that well like you said, he looked good when he played on the right this season and it's more naturally suited to him for getting crosses in and running the flanks, too often on the left he cuts in which can slow us down IMO. Point being that we would still have another option to Valencia.

Not sure that we would make him a left back, if anything he has been getting increasingly more adventurous and he's started drifting away from his position and getting in the box more. Would be a massive turnaround for him to go back to left back.
 
Re your Rooney point I think that's why he likes playing with Valencia so much, regardless of how well he's playing Valencia stretches the pitch, which will make room for the likes of Rooney.

Bale and Nani together would be awesome, Bale is a step up from Valencia and Nani provides the other type of approach with his ability to go inside or outside on either flank and they'd balance each other really well. Shame we couldn't get them, kagawa, roo and rvp on the pitch at the same time in attacking roles, that would probably make us even more potent than bringing in another striker like lewandowski.

But like I've said before, particularly if Nani is staying I wouldn't see the value in splashing out the kind of cash we'd seemingly have to, to get Bale unless we could work some sort of swap deal for a valencia or young plus cash. Otherwise I'd rather re concentrate on other areas of the team as although our wingers aren't in form atm we know they are still quality when they get going.
 
Agree that Bale would be an excellent addition to this team, despite the talk of his diving. Really think he's a potentially fantastic talent and that he's got it in him to properly take it up a few notches. It was a different story when Valencia and Nani were on form/alive, but we are looking quite weak on the wings at the moment in contrast to previous years.

Must admit though, I really don't like him at all! Not that Gareth Bale, Fergie or anyone would give two shites about that, but there's something about him I find really irritating.
 
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