He needs to play a little deeper where he can get more involved facing forward and instigate quick passes and one twos.
Also needs players like Cleverly to work off.
Also needs players like Cleverly to work off.
Shinji Kagawa
- Thread starter Baby Faced Assassin
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
- Status
I didn't think he was bad at all. We hardly got the ball forward and for what he was provided with he did decent enough.
He looked lost out there. Started very brightly, making runs off Van Persie but then faded as the game went on, much like how he has been in almost every game for us this season. Needs to improve.
Some of you lot are bonkers. He was perfectly good.
I thought he played quite well. Looked far more comfortable playing in this game than he has at times against the more physical premier league teams. Showed some very nice control in tight spaces and generally kept play alive for us.
Was a little surprised to see him in front of RVP a lot in the first half, but that is likely due to RVP being forced to drop in a bit and hold up the ball while Kagawa provided that forward run.
Was a little surprised to see him in front of RVP a lot in the first half, but that is likely due to RVP being forced to drop in a bit and hold up the ball while Kagawa provided that forward run.
I'm assuming that the ubiquity of things like FIFA means everyone expects players like him to play at least 4 defence splitting triangle through balls every half.
Gimps.
Gimps.
It looks like Kagawa is becoming the new scapegoat. He wasn't half as bad as people are making out and considering the type of player he is, he didn't have a lot to work with because of our game plan tonight.
He'll be fine.
He'll be fine.
He wasn't even bad, let alone half-as-bad.
He was as good as van Persie in the first half, for me. And he was never gonna play the full game.
Thought he played very well, especially just coming back from a long injury. Kept Real on their toes in the first half for sure.
It was Madrid away. We weren't going to be flinging in cross after cross and terrorizing their defense. His job today was to retain possession in tight areas and he did to very good effect in the first half high up the pitch.
Good performance. Difficult for him without more pass-and-move players (like Cleverley) out there with him. I also think he got fouled a few times in the first half by the likes of Ramos and Alonso, but got no protection whatsoever from the referee.
Some moments where he got overpowered, but also some lovely lightnight-quick exchanges with Rooney and RVP early on, several of which could easily have turned into goals and assists if he'd had a bit more luck. In particular the moment when someone rocketed the ball at RVP, who directed it somehow into Shinji's path, but it just came a little too hard and he wasn't able to bring it under control. Otherwise, it would have been a goal.
Some moments where he got overpowered, but also some lovely lightnight-quick exchanges with Rooney and RVP early on, several of which could easily have turned into goals and assists if he'd had a bit more luck. In particular the moment when someone rocketed the ball at RVP, who directed it somehow into Shinji's path, but it just came a little too hard and he wasn't able to bring it under control. Otherwise, it would have been a goal.
I've thought for a while that he could perhaps benefit from being dropped back. I don't think that a run in central midfield would do him any harm. It's not his natural position but he's comfortable on the ball and has very good technical ability. If he was beside someone like Carrick, he'd still be able to roam forward often enough, but be deep enough to dictate the play more than he can out wide or in behind the striker.
We created one chance after winning the ball in midfield. Rooney brought it forward with RvP and Rafael to his right and someone on the left. Then our other chance came after Real failed to clear the ball. I fail to see how Giggs or Valencia impacted that nor what had been done differently had Kagawa still be on the pitch.
Good game
I thought he was really good. Kept the ball well under pressure and always picked the right pass. I think some of the body charge by Ramos and Alonso that made him lost the ball could easily be fouls.
I thought he was mediocre tonight, not really suited to the role he was given.
He's way too comfortable on the ball. He couldn't make attacking passes because we just had him and RvP on the opposition half. What is he supposed to do? put in a Xavi or Iniesta like defence splitting through ball out of nowhere? He held the ball well under extreme pressure. Apart from one mistake where he gave the ball away cheaply. He covered arnd 8 Km in 60 mins. That's a decent amount of work
And the scapegoating continues
I disagree so much with the posts in here that I can't be arsed to start writing. I don't have the stamina..
I disagree so much with the posts in here that I can't be arsed to start writing. I don't have the stamina..
You scapegoat someone when you think his mistake directly cost the team in terms of results or points.There has been no such thing in this thread, just criticism over his performance.Some thought it wasn't good it's all
It doesnt help him (or anyone else for that matter) when everyone is running away from the player with the ball. I dont get that
Ah, but it's not just this thread. You should have seen the match thread! During halftime, everyone was blaming Kagawa, even though Rooney was pretty much invisible. RVP hadn't done much either, and Welbeck(who admittedly was awesome in the second half) was pretty average except for the goal he scored. Our central midfield was completely overrun, and our defenders shat themselves everytime Ronaldo/Özil/Di Maria had the ball. Still, everyone wanted Kagawa out of the game.
When you pull out a single player, despite the whole collective being weak, then it's scapegoating. First of all, Kagawa wasn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. I agree that he slowly started to fade in the second half, but in the first half he was actually quite good. He kept the ball in play in situations where any other player in our team would have lost it.
The reason for Kagawa being singled out during halftime is simple: Rooney and RVP are untouchable, and Welbeck scored a goal. Add to the fact that Kagawa is "the new kid", and there you have it. And once a player is singled out like this, there is no way back. He pretty much has to start a freaking revolution in order to get his respect. From that point and onwards, every little mistake the player does, will be duly noted. People say that Kagawa was too easily muscled off the ball yesterday. What game did you watch? It only happened 2 or 3 times during the entire game, and half the time it was 50/50 duels with players like Ramos and Alonso.
I was surprised to see him start in that team. I don't think he's had enough match time to find his feet with us and he seems like a player who needs to know how the team works. A team with Jones, playing that role in midfield, isn't like a team playing with Cleverley or Anderson or Scholes.
I know SAF likes to mix and match, but I don't think Kagawa's ready to be that kind of player yet.
I know SAF likes to mix and match, but I don't think Kagawa's ready to be that kind of player yet.
Well what can I say ? You haven't really gotten the caf if you expect some level of sanity and sense in the matchday thread.
Rooney and RVP aren't untouchables ffs
, RVP despite playing well last night still has a thread in which his miss was criticized.Rooney was criticized in his own thread, same thing for Rafael.My advice, don't take anything said in the matchday thread seriously and read the individual threads for players, you'll have a much better idea of the general view of players' performances.
The criticism in this thread isn't exactly sane either though
But I see that there are a few people in here that are able to judge Kagawa fairly at least. It's an improvement from the matchday thread, I will admit that.
He was poor yesterday. So were others but that doesn't excuse him.
He was given freedom too, as unlike Welbeck in the 2nd half he wasn't tracking Alonso back. Yet he just got involved fleetingly in the first 20 minutes with a few good runs and touches and then just disappeared. When he got the ball he was bullied and harried of it on many occasions.
Was somewhat of a luxury player out there. A luxury we really couldn't afford Away to Madrid. That's not to say he won't improve as we go on.
He was given freedom too, as unlike Welbeck in the 2nd half he wasn't tracking Alonso back. Yet he just got involved fleetingly in the first 20 minutes with a few good runs and touches and then just disappeared. When he got the ball he was bullied and harried of it on many occasions.
Was somewhat of a luxury player out there. A luxury we really couldn't afford Away to Madrid. That's not to say he won't improve as we go on.
Btw, he's had his best games drifting in from the left for us where he gets more time running in between the lines. When he plays behind the striker he gets harried down Physically as he isn't facing the goal enough and goes far too further forward too soon.
It's almost as if he is playing too close to RVP, rather than coming deep and running things aka a Cazorla who someone mentioned or running at players dribbling like a Silva.
It's almost as if he is playing too close to RVP, rather than coming deep and running things aka a Cazorla who someone mentioned or running at players dribbling like a Silva.
Because that's not how he plays. Not how he played at Dortmund, at least. People need to stop looking for a Silva clone.
I'm not really sure what a lot of people expect from him to be honest. He's brilliant on the ball and even when he's in a jam I'm confident he'll get out and make the right pass.
Yeah, i know and that's why i called him a luxury player right now. He can't be a proper AM who comes deep and dictates the tempo of the game like a Sneijder/Zidane/Cazorla and Pastore even and he can't be the runner from deep like a Silva/Ozil etc.....
He just floats in and around the striker and gives some good touches and control right now. He is good at that when he doesn't get bullied off the ball, but is it enough is the question ?
Once he gets used to playing for us physically, especially in the middle rather than the left he'll be a good player but there is a risk, especially if he doesn't develop into a first type of AM that he may end up another Veron. A player who we bought, but don't know where and how to use..
Too early to make a call though. Next season will be key for him. Really like him too, and some of the things he brings to the game so hopefully he can develop but let's see.
How many times have we seen Welbeck and Kagawa play in the last few weeks? It's clearly a plan Sir Alex has. It just feels unbalanced, either the formation or the players used in the formation, but they are clearly implementing whatever the manager has asked of them as they continue to be picked.
As for the player himself, he isn't as dynamic as most AM's so maybe you were under the wrong impression from the beginning. It seems that people are underrating what he does again, it looking "tidy" or "touches here and there", when in actual fact he is the only player in the team who can pull it off. Our attacking play mostly involved bypassing the midfield and sending it directly to someone who could hold it up and feed those who are just better on the ball than others. Ultimately we needed to avoid counter attacks, and we did just that. Madrid midfielders and defenders always step up out of position and press high to win the ball. For me he was the better option, we just didn't attack well enough.
As for the player himself, he isn't as dynamic as most AM's so maybe you were under the wrong impression from the beginning. It seems that people are underrating what he does again, it looking "tidy" or "touches here and there", when in actual fact he is the only player in the team who can pull it off. Our attacking play mostly involved bypassing the midfield and sending it directly to someone who could hold it up and feed those who are just better on the ball than others. Ultimately we needed to avoid counter attacks, and we did just that. Madrid midfielders and defenders always step up out of position and press high to win the ball. For me he was the better option, we just didn't attack well enough.
Don't know what to make of it really. He wasn't necessarily poor, just ineffective. He had a promising start and got into some good positions in the first half, playing some good stuff. He just gradually disappeared from the game. He still lacks a bit of strength, there was one time in the second half where he got caught in possession in a dangerous area of the pitch. That needs to improve. Could've used a bit more protection from the ref though, protection he was willing to give in abundance to Real's tricky players.
He was up against it really. I don't think it was Fergie's best idea to play him, given our game plan. He's best when we actually try to pass it around, not when we have Jones in midfield.
He was up against it really. I don't think it was Fergie's best idea to play him, given our game plan. He's best when we actually try to pass it around, not when we have Jones in midfield.
I thought he played well when he was given the ball but was completely starved of any service. His 86% pass completion was the second best for a United player.
The idea of moving Kagawa back into midfield is ridiculous. Yes, he wasn't that effective last night but he's still learning to integrate into the team, and I suspect Fergie will learn game-by-game about Kagawa too.
I'm not particularly bothered about the individual performances of the "front 4" last night, as any visiting team to the Bernebeu will come under intense pressure, even teams that have had success there like Barcelona and Borussia Dortmund.
I think the 4 attacking players last night are a force to be reckoned with once the formation is settled upon. Taking Dortmund as a model, they play Błaszczykowski, Goetze and Reus behind Lewandowski, and they are deadly in attack. The three buzz around, can play inside or outside, and I would love to see Rooney, Welbeck and Kagawa have the same kind of freedom behind RVP, WITHOUT dropping too deep into midfield.
I'm not particularly bothered about the individual performances of the "front 4" last night, as any visiting team to the Bernebeu will come under intense pressure, even teams that have had success there like Barcelona and Borussia Dortmund.
I think the 4 attacking players last night are a force to be reckoned with once the formation is settled upon. Taking Dortmund as a model, they play Błaszczykowski, Goetze and Reus behind Lewandowski, and they are deadly in attack. The three buzz around, can play inside or outside, and I would love to see Rooney, Welbeck and Kagawa have the same kind of freedom behind RVP, WITHOUT dropping too deep into midfield.
I thought he was very good yesterday, only lacking a bit cutting edge which surely will come as he regains his sharpness. He's not had a lot of football for us really.
Looks a class act. His first touch and ability to wriggle free and keep hold of the ball is top notch.
Looks a class act. His first touch and ability to wriggle free and keep hold of the ball is top notch.
I thought his performance was fine. That chance where he won the corner off Ramos (which he was indeed the last to touch, but you can't really expect the ref to see it) after which he scored was a good run by him, and had he pulled off the nutmeg on Ramos he would have been in on goal. He didn't get on the ball enough (not by his fault, just the way we set up), but he was fine when we found him.
He was good, fact that Fergie trusts him to start him in big game like this says a lot about him.
He kept the ball far better than Rooney
Yep. But then Rooney was playing on the outside right.
No we jusf expect him to play. He wasnt threatening and that was job. No one questioning his performance is a gimp we probably jus know a little more about football than just being impressed with a guy because he has a good touch.
- Status